Trade down mock 2.0

[Bengalpool]

(02-07-2020, 06:56 AM)Jpoore Wrote: And suck for a decade bc u put nothing around him.... need I bring up the dozens of qbs who have been elite but never done anything bc nothing was put around them?

Umm... "elite but never done anything"? How can one be elite, but yet never do anything? By anything do you mean win championships? What is your definition of an elite QB? If "nothing was put around them" to prove they were elite, how do you know they were elite? College skill doesn't always translate to the NFL. Give me a couple dozen of these QB's as examples. I'm curious. They better not have had anything around them for help either.

We will not suck for a decade with Burrow. Teams don't usually have immediate pro bowl success from their rookie QB. Some do, some don't. We'll see how it goes. But passing on Burrow for players that will never reach his level of success is insane.

[Catmandude123]

Here is the exact trade that the Bengals will make: They take Daltons salary off the books and trade it for Burrows and ten million cap room and help the team. Its like getting two first rounders and get to keep Burrow. Bank on it!!!

[Hammerstripes]

(02-07-2020, 06:56 AM)Jpoore Wrote: And suck for a decade bc u put nothing around him.... need I bring up the dozens of qbs who have been elite but never done anything bc nothing was put around them?
Okudah will be there(expecting lions to trade down) epeneza should be there, there’s been questions about his position in the nfl and he’s been dropping, Murray has been dropping like a rock and isn’t in some peoples top 3 lbers at this point due to lack of instincts and coverage ability.
They don’t offend me, but there’s a reason the browns even though they suck sell out and fill their stadium, and we don’t.

No olineman worthy of the picks/think they would be there in that round. Think realistically we don’t improve the oline tbh.... don’t see us moving on from our rg who just signed a 3 year contract and I like Fred johnson at rt. Would love to upgrade oline but realistically think they only sign tackle depth

So.....

We draft Burrow with the following in place:

RB - Gio, Mixon
WRs - AJ, Boyd, Ross, Tate
TE - Uzomah
OL - Jonah, Glenn, Hopkins, Miller, Hart, Johnson...

We have 6 other draft picks, plus a full 2021 draft and the off chance that we would use free agency. 

Explain to me how we would be sacrificing "putting players around a QB" just because we took one at #1.  Mind you, that the other draft picks you took in the first round were defensive players.

[Jpoore]

(02-07-2020, 08:33 AM)Takedown Wrote: Umm... "elite but never done anything"? How can one be elite, but yet never do anything? By anything do you mean win championships? What is your definition of an elite QB? If "nothing was put around them" to prove they were elite, how do you know they were elite? College skill doesn't always translate to the NFL. Give me a couple dozen of these QB's as examples. I'm curious. They better not have had anything around them for help either.

We will not suck for a decade with Burrow. Teams don't usually have immediate pro bowl success from their rookie QB. Some do, some don't. We'll see how it goes. But passing on Burrow for players that will never reach his level of success is insane.

And again whose to say they won’t reach his level of success? Burrow could just as easily be the next Ryan leaf. He had 1 good year. Couldn’t beat out jt Barrett. Couldn’t. Best out Dwayne Haskins. Went to LSU and
Sucked.

(02-07-2020, 04:31 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: So.....

We draft Burrow with the following in place:

RB - Gio, Mixon
WRs - AJ, Boyd, Ross, Tate
TE - Uzomah
OL - Jonah, Glenn, Hopkins, Miller, Hart, Johnson...

We have 6 other draft picks, plus a full 2021 draft and the off chance that we would use free agency. 

Explain to me how we would be sacrificing "putting players around a QB" just because we took one at #1.  Mind you, that the other draft picks you took in the first round were defensive players.

Bc we have a minimum of 12 starting positions that need upgrading.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-07-2020, 08:33 AM)Takedown Wrote: Umm... "elite but never done anything"? How can one be elite, but yet never do anything? By anything do you mean win championships? What is your definition of an elite QB? If "nothing was put around them" to prove they were elite, how do you know they were elite? College skill doesn't always translate to the NFL. Give me a couple dozen of these QB's as examples. I'm curious. They better not have had anything around them for help either.

We will not suck for a decade with Burrow. Teams don't usually have immediate pro bowl success from their rookie QB. Some do, some don't. We'll see how it goes. But passing on Burrow for players that will never reach his level of success is insane.

(02-08-2020, 04:35 AM)Jpoore Wrote: And again whose to say they won’t reach his level of success? Burrow could just as easily be the next Ryan leaf. He had 1 good year. Couldn’t beat out jt Barrett. Couldn’t. Best out Dwayne Haskins. Went to LSU and
Sucked.

I believe he asked you to list some of those "elite" QBs who did nothing with nobody around them.  Instead of answering, you change the topic and make up lies?

Dude, this the the thread that YOU created.  You should have been prepared to catch some snap back, as well as been prepared to back up your reasoning with something that at least makes sense.

[Bengalpool]

(02-08-2020, 04:35 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 1 And again whose to say they won’t reach his level of success? Burrow could just as easily be the next Ryan leaf. He had 1 good year. Couldn’t beat out jt Barrett. Couldn’t. Best out Dwayne Haskins. Went to LSU and
Sucked.
2 Bc we have a minimum of 12 starting positions that need upgrading.

1. Burrow is projected as the #1 pick for a reason. You may possibly be the only dude on the internet who claims to be a Bengals fan that actually believes trading down is the best thing to do... C'mon man.

2. 12 Minimum...? And what is the #1 position on an NFL roster that helps teams win more than any other position? I'll give you a hint. Quarterba-...….

[Bengalpool]

(02-08-2020, 12:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I believe he asked you to list some of those "elite" QBs who did nothing with nobody around them.  Instead of answering, you change the topic and make up lies?

Dude, this the the thread that YOU created.  You should have been prepared to catch some snap back, as well as been prepared to back up your reasoning with something that at least makes sense.

You already knew he buried himself on that one though.

[Catmandude123]

(02-08-2020, 03:54 PM)Takedown Wrote: 1. Burrow is projected as the #1 pick for a reason. You may possibly be the only dude on the internet who claims to be a Bengals fan that actually believes trading down is the best thing to do... C'mon man.

2. 12 Minimum...? And what is the #1 position on an NFL roster that helps teams win more than any other position? I'll give you a hint. Quarterba-...….

He will never get the answer.

[Jpoore]

(02-08-2020, 12:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I believe he asked you to list some of those "elite" QBs who did nothing with nobody around them.  Instead of answering, you change the topic and make up lies?

Dude, this the the thread that YOU created.  You should have been prepared to catch some snap back, as well as been prepared to back up your reasoning with something that at least makes sense.

Im more than happy to debate and prove my reasoning. Also I never changed the topic just addressed a different part of it.

(02-08-2020, 03:54 PM)Takedown Wrote: 1. Burrow is projected as the #1 pick for a reason. You may possibly be the only dude on the internet who claims to be a Bengals fan that actually believes trading down is the best thing to do... C'mon man.

2. 12 Minimum...? And what is the #1 position on an NFL roster that helps teams win more than any other position? I'll give you a hint. Quarterba-...….

Yes. Qb is the most important. But i prefer a less riskier option, in addition to building a team before grabbing the qb. Also yes 12 minimum starting positions. 4 oline 1 wr 2 dline 2 lbers 2 cbs 1 safety... as far as the qbs just off top of my head, Matthew stafford, can newton(outside of 1 great year), Phillip rivers, if I wasn’t at work could look up a whole lot more.. if burrow comes here I hope he does well. I hope hen is elite... but answer this. If the browns had drafted Lamar jackson instead of mayfield, would the browns Noel of rebuild be looked at as the standard? Probably. They built a team. Then went after the qb(just looks like the wrong one at this time).

[Hammerstripes]

(02-08-2020, 04:35 AM)Jpoore Wrote: And again whose to say they won’t reach his level of success? Burrow could just as easily be the next Ryan leaf. He had 1 good year. Couldn’t beat out jt Barrett. Couldn’t. Best out Dwayne Haskins. Went to LSU and
Sucked.
Bc we have a minimum of 12 starting positions that need upgrading.

No, there are only 11 other starters on offense.  The QB doesn't rely on the defense to do his job.  So, don't sit there and say that we need to get 12 starters for him to be successful.

The whole Ohio State issue is getting so old.  As a freshman/sophomore he's not beating out JT Barrett.  Nobody was since they were in the middle of a national title hunt.  When you talk to the guys at Ohio State, most of them felt that in time that Burrow would have beaten out Haskins, had he not had the hand injury.

Just go back and look at some of the comments made about him by players after he lit up the spring game. 

As for the one "good" year.  Burrow didn't have a horrible Junior year.  He was in a bad system and he got a late start at LSU.  What did we see?  Consistent progression after the Alabama game.  LSU then joined the modern ranks of offense and implemented an NFL passing offense and Burrow lit it up.

I/we/everone may be wrong about Burrow, but when the 1st pick QB is a no-brainer, you better take him.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-10-2020, 02:50 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Im more than happy to debate and prove my reasoning. Also I never changed the topic just addressed a different part of it.
Yes. Qb is the most important. But i prefer a less riskier option, in addition to building a team before grabbing the qb. Also yes 12 minimum starting positions. 4 oline 1 wr 2 dline  2 lbers 2 cbs 1 safety... as far as the qbs just off top of my head, Matthew stafford, can newton(outside of 1 great year), Phillip rivers, if I wasn’t at work could look up a whole lot more.. if burrow comes here I hope he does well. I hope hen is elite... but answer this. If the browns had drafted Lamar jackson instead of mayfield, would the browns Noel of rebuild be looked at as the standard? Probably. They built a team. Then went after the qb(just looks like the wrong one at this time).

Any QB taken lower in the draft is hardly a less riskier option, in fact, the lower you pick a QB, the more likely you are to miss on the guy.

And don't tell me that Jordan Love is a less riskier option and don't tell me that building a team first would be a better approach.  It's simply not, unless you are planning to use free agency, which the Bengals never do.

[Bengalpool]

(02-10-2020, 02:50 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Im more than happy to debate and prove my reasoning. Also I never changed the topic just addressed a different part of it.
Yes. Qb is the most important. But i prefer a less riskier option, in addition to building a team before grabbing the qb. Also yes 12 minimum starting positions. 4 oline 1 wr 2 dline  2 lbers 2 cbs 1 safety... as far as the qbs just off top of my head, Matthew stafford, can newton(outside of 1 great year), Phillip rivers, if I wasn’t at work could look up a whole lot more.. if burrow comes here I hope he does well. I hope hen is elite... but answer this. If the browns had drafted Lamar jackson instead of mayfield, would the browns Noel of rebuild be looked at as the standard? Probably. They built a team. Then went after the qb(just looks like the wrong one at this time).

You are LITERALLY taking a risk with every single pick! BUT! There are players which are PROJECTED to be elite in the NFL coming from college that you just can't justify passing on. *Cough, Burrow, cough*…

SO! With that being said, and both of us agreeing that the Quarterback position is the most important when it comes to wins, you take Burrow and you go from there. Our offense is actually not bad. We will get Jonah Williams this year (+1 1st round pick), Joe Mixon who is probably the best RB in the game right now, a receiving corp that is underrated (with or without AJ, plus this years WR class is as deep as it ever has been), and an improving offensive line by years end. It needs a couple pieces, but it's not as far from being good as you're saying. I would love a reliable TE and one more OL piece.

I can argue that you're taking the biggest gamble by trading away from the most sure player (next to Chase Young) for a bunch of players that aren't anywhere near Burrow's level of skill and success in college. Burrow will take this underrated and undervalued team and make everyone around him on offense better! And IF we are lucky, we pick up 2 or maybe just 1 player in FA that is a proven starter to help lighten up our draft needs come April.

Breathe a little Jpoore. We need a few pieces from being a successful team in the playoffs outside of Joe Burrow, yes. But Joe Burrow will improve this team by himself without any other offseason acquisitions. I'm not saying just him will put us over the hump, and I can't guarantee Burrow to be a HoF QB who will bring us our first Lombardi Trophy to Cincy, but I will tell you that he is by far the best option for this team right now to see those things happen. Love simply is not.

Now about your ""elite but never done anything"" QB's. If you consider those QB's "elite", what do you consider Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson? You HONESTLY believe that if you put Rivers, Newton or Stafford in the shoes of any of those 6 QB's that I listed off that they too would have won a championship? Rivers has had teams with great supporting casts. Same with Newton and Stafford. The 6 QB's that I listed made their teams better. I'm just not buying your small list of QB's as "elite". Not in comparison to what I know to be elite. Not a chance. Out of the 3, Rivers may have a slim chance of making the HoF. I wouldn't even think to bet that.

I'm still waiting on at least 21 more QB's who are "elite but never done anything" when you have time.