Hobsons choice: no need to invest more in the offensive line?

[XenoMorph]

if glenn and Williams are both back healthy and ready/willing to play... our OL is probly okay for next year.

still need a few some depth I think...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-07-2020, 08:54 AM)Benton Wrote: The line was getting better. And depending on how they feel Jonah is looking.

I'm in the minority, but I'd be super happy if we skip the line on the first four rounds and look at the BPA from QB (Burrow, duh), WR, LB and DL. Those are our biggest needs of upgrades or most immediate need.

Idk how you can say DL is one of our biggest needs? It’s probably our best position group.

Geno is Geno, Dunlap isn’t showing any signs of slowing down, Hubbard is right on the verge of being a star player for us, Lawson is a terror when healthy, and Billings is a rock. Maybe add some more pieces to the rotation, but that’s about it.

Agree on WR and LB, but OL is definitely more of a need than DL.

[bengals67]

exactly why Burrow should pull an Eli.

Just what all of us expected- same old stuff.

Easier to extend mediocre to poor players or someone like Gio who is a luxury than trying to sign top free agents at positions of obvious need like almost every team that made playoffs this year. 

[Schmitbuck]

(02-07-2020, 11:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Idk how you can say DL is one of our biggest needs? It’s probably our best position group.

Geno is Geno, Dunlap isn’t showing any signs of slowing down, Hubbard is right on the verge of being a star player for us, Lawson is a terror when healthy, and Billings is a rock. Maybe add some more pieces to the rotation, but that’s about it.

Agree on WR and LB, but OL is definitely more of a need than DL.

When you're weak at almost every position group, it shouldn't be too surprising someone has the groups ranked differently. I agree DL was one of the better position groups in 2019, but the cliff is certainly coming. 

Geno = old. We'll see regression soon, maybe this year.
Dunlap = old. We'll see regression soon, maybe this year.
Hubbard = agree
Lawson = agree, emphasize 'when healthy'
Billings = free agent

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-07-2020, 11:50 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: When you're weak at almost every position group, it shouldn't be too surprising someone has the groups ranked differently. I agree DL was one of the better position groups in 2019, but the cliff is certainly coming. 

Geno = old. We'll see regression soon, maybe this year.
Dunlap = old. We'll see regression soon, maybe this year.
Hubbard = agree
Lawson = agree, emphasize 'when healthy'
Billings = free agent

Do you agree OL, LB, and WR are much bigger needs?

[motoarch]

(02-07-2020, 01:22 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I read it also.. he never said not look at a line addition but he for sure said what I agree with the Defense sucked more than the Offense... got to fix Defense plus we really have a 1st round pick on the offense line when you consider Williams never played last year...

Ohboyhe Fisher and price we're also 1st rounder so...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-07-2020, 12:13 PM)motoarch Wrote: Ohboyhe Fisher and price we're also 1st rounder so...

Williams was probably the best OL prospect in the draft last year. He’s obviously a question mark until he proves himself, but I honestly don’t think he ends up being as bad as any of them.

[Schmitbuck]

(02-07-2020, 11:59 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Do you agree OL, LB, and WR are much bigger needs?

Do you agree Dunlap and Geno could decline this year? 

Obviously depends on free agency if you are asking about the first 4 rounds, but I agree they are needs. "Much bigger", ask me after we see how Dunlap and Geno play this year. I think QB, RB, WR, TE, OG, OT, DT, DE, LB, CB, and SS are all positions that could use help in rounds 1-4. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-07-2020, 12:20 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Do you agree Dunlap and Geno could decline this year? 

Obviously depends on free agency if you are asking about the first 4 rounds, but I agree they are needs. "Much bigger", ask me after we see how Dunlap and Geno play this year. I think QB, RB, WR, TE, OG, OT, DT, DE, LB, CB, and SS are all positions that could use help in rounds 1-4. 

Ofc they could decline, but there are issues that are already a reality, not what if’s.

[Luvnit2]

I am not an expert on OL play so could someone provide factual info on how the OL played in the last 6 games or in games with Glenn versus games without him?

It appeared using the eye test they did improve significantly once Glenn came back. If so, we do have a #1 pick already joining this group who can play LT or RT. We also added a Steeler's OL late in year who appeared to be decent with room to grow.

As I look at this objectively, I see WR as the #1 issue other than QB. That fades if we re-sign AJ Green in 2020 short term. So, I see LB as #1 need, then DL as #2, then DB or DL. But, OL could jump up if I was wrong about improvement last portion of year of OL.

But make no mistake, our defense to me is our biggest weakness. You can win with a top 15 offense, but to be great in my opinion you need a top 10 defense. Some will argue KC won, but KC also improved as the year went on and were much better by the playoffs.

[Stewy]

(02-07-2020, 01:46 AM)grampahol Wrote: Sometimes I think Hobson is just trying to get fired, but then I realize he works for Mike Brown which makes getting fired for incompetence impossible. I knew I should have sent my resume to the team years ago. Qualifications: Absolutely nothing AND incompetent at it! I'd be a multi-millionaire by now.
On the other hand there are times I enjoy reading his schtick when he's not pretending to be strategizing for readers or getting on his holier than thou schtick, but I really try hard to take anything he writes with a grain of salt.

He works for the team.  He writes what he's told to write.  It has nothing to do with competence.

The fact that people still read his stuff AND apply meaning to it is what amazes me.

[*psychdoctor*]

If Bengals draft Burrow, then they should fix OL issues. Even though the defense needs work. Cannot fix things in one year. Protect your QB and give him confidence.

[depthchart]

(02-07-2020, 01:11 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I just read the latest hobsons choice and he’s saying they dont need to invest more in the offensive line.

.



I see it as foolish to basically eliminate a 5 starter position Group like the O-line from consideration for a possible "investment" that could make it stronger.

45% of a starting Offense is O-line

23% of all starting positions (offense/defense) is O-line

I would keep an open mind to taking virtually any position at any time in a Draft based on how talented I believed a specific player is relative to what else is available at that point in a Draft while factoring in need as well.

Having preconceived notions that cause the Bengals to overlook a large position Group like the O-line in say the first 3 rounds of a Draft is like tying their hands for no reason instead of letting the Draft play out with an open mind.

Why lessen the number of position options you have to contrast and compare to each other before making each Draft selection ?

Especially if one of the position Groups getting eliminated from consideration is as large as the O-line position Group is.




.

[Big Boss]

(02-07-2020, 01:11 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I just read the latest hobsons choice and he’s saying they dont need to invest more in the offensive line. This concerns me. I would like to see a stud guard or tackle added to bolster depth and upgrade the starting lineup. He’s saying to let the young guys continue developing—pointing to the late season emergence of a running game and jonah williams coming on as the starting left tackle.

Does this concern anyone? I dont want to see Burrow get killed. Our line got beat like a drum almost every play last year. I feel like we keep falling victim to this stubborn belief that we should invest in skill players and just roll with who we got on the offensive line.

I like what he says about drafting defense; but am I wrong in thinking we need to upgrade the line with another player or two?

I legitimately don't know what they're seeing that we're not.  Like it almost reads as the team intentionally ***** with people at this point.    

[Schmitbuck]

(02-07-2020, 12:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ofc they could decline, but there are issues that are already a reality, not what if’s.

Pretty sure the birth dates listed on ESPN and the team site for Geno & Dunlap are real. 

My job is in the accounting field. Over the years, I've spent a lot of Octobers & Novembers forecasting and creating budgets for the upcoming year. And if my team misses/ignores certain variables, it makes for some not so fun conversations when the books close each month. 

My point is that good organizations will take into account things like players declining with age. Perhaps Geno & Dunlap don't drop-off in 2020, but they can't kick the can much longer.

Some of my favorite drafts were when the Bengals were a playoff team and could draft BPA and plan ahead for expiring contracts/guys retiring. I hope they're back to doing that soon. 

[lone bengal]

I emailed him a question regarding the offensive line and he posted it in his Hobson’s choice lol. I basically said thinking the offensive line is fine is absurd. He stated they added Bobby Hart , John Miller , resigned Hopkins added Fred Johnson , drafted Michael Jordan and have Williams coming back lol. One you can’t count Hopkins twice or talk about crappy additions we made last season. Hart is a bum , Miller below average, Fred Johnson unproven and Jordan didn’t look great last season. This guy must just do what the team tells him no way a rational person would believe this. Even said no one said there hall of fame worthy as a deflection , Hobson there not even an average O-line lol.

[bengals1969]

(02-07-2020, 01:11 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I just read the latest hobsons choice and he’s saying they dont need to invest more in the offensive line. This concerns me. I would like to see a stud guard or tackle added to bolster depth and upgrade the starting lineup. He’s saying to let the young guys continue developing—pointing to the late season emergence of a running game and jonah williams coming on as the starting left tackle.

Does this concern anyone? I dont want to see Burrow get killed. Our line got beat like a drum almost every play last year. I feel like we keep falling victim to this stubborn belief that we should invest in skill players and just roll with who we got on the offensive line.

I like what he says about drafting defense; but am I wrong in thinking we need to upgrade the line with another player or two?

Hobson should also mention who the team played on the back half.
Cleveland 2 times.
Miami
Jets
Oakland

That's 5 bottom feeders in the league so we are supposed to be excited our Oline played better? 
That's grade A manure.  If he was honest, I assume he is, he'd look at the line when playing Ratbirds and NE in the last 8 games.  Those were losses of 49-13 and 34-13. 

I'm thinking Hobson can explain how the vastly improved Oline contributed to those scores.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-07-2020, 01:11 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I just read the latest hobsons choice and he’s saying they dont need to invest more in the offensive line. This concerns me. I would like to see a stud guard or tackle added to bolster depth and upgrade the starting lineup. He’s saying to let the young guys continue developing—pointing to the late season emergence of a running game and jonah williams coming on as the starting left tackle.

Does this concern anyone? I dont want to see Burrow get killed. Our line got beat like a drum almost every play last year. I feel like we keep falling victim to this stubborn belief that we should invest in skill players and just roll with who we got on the offensive line.

I like what he says about drafting defense; but am I wrong in thinking we need to upgrade the line with another player or two?

You are definitely not wrong and it is a concern without a doubt if we think we are just hunky dory on the O-line.

Need at least one proven player at RT, RG or LG in FA. Whoever we get has to be a drive blocking O-lineman though.

No more bringing in Lineman that are good at drive blocking and trying to run zone blocking schemes. 

At least Turner learned that the Lineman we do have are much better at drive blocking. Need to add another.

[bengaloo]

Would love to see us sign one legit upgrade in FA either at G or RT and draft another.

[Yojimbo]

The two biggest excuses are, “they got better” and “6th in the league in rushing over the second half of the season”. Adressing the first, when you are the worst you have nowhere to go but “better”. To the second, I’ve heard this excuse from the Bengals multiple times at multiple different position groups and players. Being middle of the pack or top 10 or whatever does not mean it’s okay to rest on your laurels. The goal should always, ALWAYS, be #1. That is the only time the status quo is okay.