Should we trade up into the 1st for Queen or another linebacker?

[SadFaceBengal15]

(02-19-2020, 04:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You are trying to read way too much into what you think I am saying rather than actually focusing on what I said.
By no means did I say I'd prefer Vigil over Roquan Smith or Devin White.
And Ogletree has more proven success than Vigil in his career. As has Alexander.
Regardless of all that, they were all still rated lower in 2019.
That's all I said.
It's your fault for making the assumption that I was saying Vigil is better than those guys.

As for the two LB thing, there would still be 64 starting LBs if every team only ran 2 LBs. So, by definition, he performed well enough to be considered a starter.
Did I say he was a good starter? Nope.
Did I say there was room for improvement? Yes.
Did I say the Bengals shouldn't address LB and just go with Vigil? NOPE.

You always respond in such a way where just because someone refutes your point, you take it as they are completely in support of an opposite stance. And that's not true. You need to learn to see things more objectively.

If there was any starting LB who was hurting the team, it was Preston Brown, who was worse than Vigil.

Lol don’t claim ignorance bro... why bring it up at all in the first place if that’s not what your implying... Cmon man. Vigil is bad he literally was two spots away from the very bottom of linebackers who played last year. That doesn’t mean u should be starting and that mentality is problematic. If ur at the very bottom in any position group you should be replaced and it’s becaaue you are NOT starting caliber bottom line. It’s annoying to see people in even the slightest way provide a defense for vigil. He’s horrible he should be replaced and he should not be starting because he is not a good linebacker in this league.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-19-2020, 04:22 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Lol don’t claim ignorance bro... why bring it up at all in the first place if that’s not what your implying... Cmon man.  Vigil is bad he literally was two spots away from the very bottom of linebackers who played last yet.  That doesn’t mean u should be starting and that mentality is problematic.  If ur at the very bottom in any position group you should be replaced and it’s becaaue you are NOT starting caliber bottom line.

What ignorance do you think I'm claiming? I think you mean to say you think I'm trying to put in messages without actually knowing for sure I was or not.
I brought up what I brought up to prove that your claim that Vigil is "garbage" and isn't worthy of being a starter is flat out wrong.

In fact, in my original statement, I explicitly stated...

ochocincos Wrote:(albeit plenty of room for improvement)

That right there should give clear indication my intention that I was not claiming Vigil to be some good starter or anything. But you focus so much on trashing the guy that you missed or ignored that part to fit your own narrative.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-19-2020, 04:22 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Vigil is bad he literally was two spots away from the very bottom of linebackers who played last year.

If you use the definition that he was "literally two spots away from the very bottom" (which is false because 64 is not "the bottom"), then let's look at some names that were "below the bottom"...

Kwon Alexander
Roquan Smith
Germaine Pratt
Devin White
De'Vondre Campbell
Damien Wilson
Black Cashman
Patrick Onwuasor
Rashaan Evans
AJ Klein
Myles Jack
Jerome Baker
Mack Wilson
Jarrad Davis
Anthony Hitchens

If 64 is the bottom, then all of the guys in the list above are also trash, according to your definition.

For the record, PFF's "bottom" is 89, which is the number of LBs who had enough snaps to quality for a ranking.

I'll state it 100% clear for you since you seem to like to twist my words (and others')...
The Bengals could find an upgrade over Vigil.
I'd prefer the Bengals do find an upgrade, as I'm not happy about the Bengals not having a LB ranked even in the Top 50 in the league.
But Vigil was not the worst LB in the league last year.
And it wouldn't surprise me (not that I'd be happy about it), if the Bengals re-signed Vigil and had him compete with another FA and/or draft pick for starting snaps.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(02-19-2020, 04:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If you use the definition that he was "literally two spots away from the very bottom" (which is false because 64 is not "the bottom"), then let's look at some names that were "below the bottom"...

Kwon Alexander
Roquan Smith
Germaine Pratt
Devin White
De'Vondre Campbell
Damien Wilson
Black Cashman
Patrick Onwuasor
Rashaan Evans
AJ Klein
Myles Jack
Jerome Baker
Mack Wilson
Jarrad Davis
Anthony Hitchens

If 64 is the bottom, then all of the guys in the list above are also trash, according to your definition.

For the record, PFF's "bottom" is 89, which is the number of LBs who had enough snaps to quality for a ranking.

I'll state it 100% clear for you since you seem to like to twist my words (and others')...
The Bengals could find an upgrade over Vigil.
I'd prefer the Bengals do find an upgrade, as I'm not happy about the Bengals not having a LB ranked even in the Top 50 in the league.
But Vigil was not the worst LB in the league last year.
And it wouldn't surprise me (not that I'd be happy about it), if the Bengals re-signed Vigil and had him compete with another FA and/or draft pick for starting snaps.

Dude say all u want But I’d take all those dudes over vigil. Vigil is garbage. Bottom line. I can see the bengals resigning him too but they should not. At all. Vigil is garbage. Enough said of the guy.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-10-2020, 12:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, I'll sit tight at 33 and consider him if he is there. He's a good prospect but I think he is gaining hype because of the lack of top end talent at LB overall in this draft than because he is a great prospect.

I think you are partially correct about his gaining hype. Ts, I watched some of his tape, and he's pretty dang solid. He should be able to carve out a nice career for himself.

I completely agree with you about staying put. In fact I've already seen him mocked to us at #33 by a couple of respected NFL guys. 
 Regardless, Queen, Braun, and Davis-Gaither should be available when we get there. Prefer to grab Gaither in the 3rd or after, if possible? He was a sleeper two months ago, not so much now.
Either way, I would be happy with any one of those three LBs.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-10-2020, 05:13 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Would you be happy trading up for Murray over Queen? I want to see us get our guy at linebacker if possible. And obviously want that guy to pan out. Otherwise we grab a mid round guy and put it off to next year again.

If you combine bringing in Burrow and our first round LT from last year with an FA LB like Littleton and a bottom of the 1st linebacker, i feel like its a good start. Draft a promising G/T with the pick we get for Dalton, as well as a cb and a good defensive line prospect in the 3rd/4th and suddenly we are a lot better—provided we resign AJ and Dennard and Eifert and a few other pending FAs.

I'd grab Dye at the top of the 3rd or move into the late 2nd.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-10-2020, 10:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Everyone noticed him in the National Championship flying around and making plays.

Exactly...The biggest game brought out his best play...and Lawrence may look Goofy, but his long strides eat up a lot of ground, quickly.  He stayed with him sideline to sideline and really limited his scrambles.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-10-2020, 05:13 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Would you be happy trading up for Murray over Queen? I want to see us get our guy at linebacker if possible. And obviously want that guy to pan out. Otherwise we grab a mid round guy and put it off to next year again.

If you combine bringing in Burrow and our first round LT from last year with an FA LB like Littleton and a bottom of the 1st linebacker, i feel like its a good start. Draft a promising G/T with the pick we get for Dalton, as well as a cb and a good defensive line prospect in the 3rd/4th and suddenly we are a lot better—provided we resign AJ and Dennard and Eifert and a few other pending FAs.

This pretty much in a nutshell.  What would be awesome is getting that one FA (If I could pick just one outside of our guys that need re-signed, I would have to say Thuney.  RG for the next 6-8 years.  Best in the league...and you all know how much I would love to see Whit at LG, but I would do Thuney if I could just get one) and having that spot filled heading in to the draft.  That opens up so much for the Bengals.

Now the Bengals could focus on their next most glaring weakness:  LB.  They need at least one more high-caliber starter to go with Vigil and Pratt.  If a SS they really like is there in the top of Rd 2, they can take him without having to worry about two huge positions of need pushing further down the draft.  If a top-notch WR is there at the top of Rd 2, ditto.

They just need to acknowledge that several massive whiffs in the draft and pony up for one key FA.  One.  That is all I'm asking.  Sure, they could also sign a veteran QB, or a journeyman LB, but one quality FA opens up the entire draft for them.