Not Having a Practice Facility is an Absolute Embarrassment

[XenoMorph]

(02-12-2020, 01:47 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Hell, partner with Gold star (only because they're the official sponsor; prefer Skyline myself) to open a practice facility/fast food restaurant paid for by Gold Star. You can have one side of the building be the restaurant and then have a glass wall where patrons can watch the Bengals practice. Heck, Mike can even charge Gold Star for the privilege (after having GS pay for the construction, of course) and make him some money in the process. 

biggest issue is where.... not a ton of real estate near the stadium

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-12-2020, 01:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: biggest issue is where.... not a ton of real estate near the stadium

What does that matter? There's a ton of indoor facilities nowhere near their respective stadiums. In fact, the majority of the NFL has the facilities off-site.

Pittsburgh's complex is 20 minutes away from Heinz Field, according to Google Maps. 

The Cowboys facility is over 30 miles away in Frisco, TX from the stadium in Dallas.

The new FC Cincinnati facility is in Milford, while the stadium is being built in the West End.

[Wes Mantooth]

Andrew Whitworth comments on practicing indoors:

Inclement weather led quarterback Andy Dalton to miss practice the week of the wildcard playoff game against Houston last year, and the lack of an indoor facility remains a sore spot with some players.Offensive tackle Andrew Whitworth said Wednesday’s seven-mile trip to Clifton was a productive one.

“It’s nice to go inside and throw the football and run the football and make cuts and do all of those things without having to worry about falling down in the ice and the wind,” Whitworth said. “You’re trying to work on looks and everything, it’s hard to get the speed of the looks when everybody’s worried about their footing and the conditions we’re in.“You want to stay off the ground this late in the year, and it’s kind of hard to do when it’s wet and nasty outside,” he continued. “It’s better to be dry and inside. It’s good for us to go in there and get a sweat in and fly around.

[bambino5130]

Massillon High School probably has better facilities. We know that Ohio State and hell even UC has better facilities.
I think the embarrassment that the Bengals have to go to UC and use their indoor facilities. If Mike Brown ever does
plan on putting anything in place, I am sure he will find another way to screw over the Hamilton county taxpayers to get it done.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2020, 03:59 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Cue the chorus of telling me I'm beating a dead horse...

Yes, it's been discussed and brought up numerous times throughout the years. But still the Bengals sit without one. It remains a relevant gripe and continues to deserve ridicule.

The Mike and Marvin press conference, where Marvin was "keen" on it, and Mike said he thought it would get done after getting through the CBA, was TEN years ago. TEN!!! A full decade... Still nothing.

I'm not sure some here realize just what an embarrassment this is. And how it affects perception in the league, from free agents, in-house players, and rookies.

Right from the get go, a player arrives to this team and already knows it's less than. He's reminded every walk-through in the rain and sub 40 temperatures. He's reminded in 90+ degree days in August and early Sept.

Joe Burrow is joining a team that practices like a high school team. Almost all of these guys are coming from programs where they practiced indoors. Here, it's 10th grade again getting drizzled on, standing around waiting for reps when it's 35 degrees.

I think it's time for the league to step in here and force the issue. Them, or I'm hoping the NFLPA puts into their CBA demands that it must be done. It's not fair for 1/32 of the league to suffer such an outdated and bs approach.

Fwiw, UC is already looking to build a new, better indoor facility. They funded their bubble with 13 mil of alumni donations. And, not even a decade later, theyre looking to add an additional structure to modernize their facility. They play in the American Athletic Conference by the way.

So welcome to Cincinnati, Joe Burrow. Where we practice like it's 1975. And that goes for all the rookies and free agents too. Don't believe all that negative stuff you hear about us either. Just ignore the weather and take a salt tablet. Remember your food pyramid too.

/ENDRANT

You know that the FO (and a percentage of fans) believe that practicing in the same environment you will play in helps make you tougher and better prepare you for game day.
And given that no team in the division has an indoor stadium, they don't see the need to practice indoors on a typical basis when it gets to frigid temps and weather.

[*psychdoctor*]

Most NFL teams do not do "live" practices any longer. The whole idea of practicing in the weather elements is weakened by the fact that teams rarely even practice full speed and tackle.

Bengals need to improve team facilities to that of other teams so that if anything else, it removes the narrative that they are cheap and are second rate facility. Remove the narrative. Give the team a damn practice facility. Brown is so disconnected.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-12-2020, 02:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 1.) You know that the FO (and a percentage of fans) believe that practicing in the same environment you will play in helps make you tougher and better prepare you for game day.
2.) And given that no team in the division has an indoor stadium, they don't see the need to practice indoors on a typical basis when it gets to frigid temps and weather.

1.) I'm well aware of that. I've made my position pretty clear on that thought process. I think it's outdated and stupid. So do the other NFL teams, all major college programs, and even hundreds of high schools.

2.) You do know division games account for only 38% of our games, right? We have 10 games (62%) outside of the division. And those other 3 division oppenents, with outdoor stadiums, all have indoor facilities. 

Practicing outside when the wind chill is 10 degrees, and AJ Green is complaining of his toes being numb, and Andy Dalton is sick, before a road playoff game in Houston's dome, isn't helping you better prepare for your enviornment.

Do you honestly believe all of these teams build these facilities for nothing other than to waste millions of dollars?  Do you think we're tougher than Pit, Bal, Green Bay, Chicago because we're better prepared for the elements?

What about rain and storms? When a storm rolls in, and we have to stop practice and go inside, does that help us "better prepare"?

This logic is pure nonsense. It belongs stuffed in a closet full of moth balls, surrounded by a black and white TV, Worther's Originals, and cans of lead paint.

[fredtoast]

(02-12-2020, 03:10 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What about rain and storms? When a storm rolls in, and we have to stop practice and go inside, does that help us "better prepare"?

Very little practice during the season is live full team-on-team.  Almost all the drills and walk throughs can be done inside with no problem.  You seem to think it is impossible for them to do anything inside.


I agree with you that we should have an indoor facility, but it is not nearly as big of a deal as you and some others make it out to be.  Even the "disgruntled" Bengals who have left over the years have no whines about lack of an indoor facility.  Jonathan Joseph though free Gatorade was more important than an indoor practice facility.  Carson Palmer complained more about a cheap Christmas party.  It seems like something the whiny fans are concerned with more than the players.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-12-2020, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote:   Almost all the drills and walk throughs can be done inside with no problem.  You seem to think it is impossible for them to do anything inside.

No, they absolutely cannot.

I don't think you understand just how small that space is. Look it up. It's roughly 20 yards long.  

You can't have any deep routes run, no punting, no kicking, etc. Your QB takes a 5 step drop, or you run out of shotgun, and your receiver's got about 15 yards to run a route. You can't even do a walkthrough with your full defense because there's not enough space for the DB's to drop back.

Seriously, try to picture this. That space + 60+ players + 10+ coaches + staff... What do you get? A:) Barely enough room for them to all stand.

You can't have one group working here, another there, another there. You don't have room for rehab work on one side. There's simply not enough space to come close to a regular practice session. 

[Wes Mantooth]

Imagine a full practice, with all it's regular participants and attendees, then imagine moving them to this space, and be able to conduct routine drills and walkthroughs...

[*ochocincos*]

(02-12-2020, 03:10 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) I'm well aware of that. I've made my position pretty clear on that thought process. I think it's outdated and stupid. So do the other NFL teams, all major college programs, and even hundreds of high schools.

2.) You do know division games account for only 38% of our games, right? We have 10 games (62%) outside of the division. And those other 3 division oppenents, with outdoor stadiums, all have indoor facilities. 

Practicing outside when the wind chill is 10 degrees, and AJ Green is complaining of his toes being numb, and Andy Dalton is sick, before a road playoff game in Houston's dome, isn't helping you better prepare for your enviornment.

Do you honestly believe all of these teams build these facilities for nothing other than to waste millions of dollars?  Do you think we're tougher than Pit, Bal, Green Bay, Chicago because we're better prepared for the elements?

What about rain and storms? When a storm rolls in, and we have to stop practice and go inside, does that help us "better prepare"?

This logic is pure nonsense. It belongs stuffed in a closet full of moth balls, surrounded by a black and white TV, Worther's Originals, and cans of lead paint.

I understand and agree with your stance.
Regarding the elements, I'd actually prefer the Bengals just go straight to an indoor stadium. That way they don't need to worry about an indoor practice facility and their fans can enjoy the game without worrying about temperature or precipitation 

[Shake n Blake]

(02-11-2020, 05:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not near as big of an issue as you keep claiming it to be.

I have never once heard it mentioned by any free agent or Bengal player that we fail to re-sign.

Whitworth once complained about it, saying "it was hard to get timing down and practice plays while you can't get traction in slippery conditions". I've listed the link to that countless times in these discussions in the past, but it's getting harder to find the old link. Multiple players voiced relief at practicing indoors at UC, and said the cold and weather conditions made it difficult to install a game plan.

Multiple players (including Dalton) came down with the flu after practing all week in the cold, before the first Texans playoff game...which was played with the roof up.

Palmer gushed about the Cardinals facilities when he got there, which seemed to be a subtle shot towards the Bengals.

Players aren't typically taking shots at former employers though. I can only think of two players (Housh and JJo) that have mentioned the Bengals locking up their Gatorade and deodorant, but I'm sure those are things that many players took notice of without breaking out the megaphone to inform the public.

Honestly, regardless on our thoughts on how important this is, it's silly that we're still having to discuss this in 2020. The Bengals said 9 years ago on their home site that a facility was "imminent", and still nothing. That page has since been scrubbed from Bengals.com, but here's another link that references it: http://www.bengalsgab.com/2011/04/22/bengals-exploring-indoor-practice-facility%E2%80%A6finally/

[Destro]

Considering we are the worst team in the league, again and have not won a playoff game in modern history, I don't put a lot of stock in the Bengals doing anything the right way. Anyone know all the teams that have facilities? Do they tend to play better than the Bengals?

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-12-2020, 05:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Whitworth once complained about it, saying "it was hard to get timing down and practice plays while you can't get traction in slippery conditions". I've listed the link to that countless times in these discussions in the past, but it's getting harder to find the old link.

This one?

(02-12-2020, 02:19 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Andrew Whitworth comments on practicing indoors:

Inclement weather led quarterback Andy Dalton to miss practice the week of the wildcard playoff game against Houston last year, and the lack of an indoor facility remains a sore spot with some players.Offensive tackle Andrew Whitworth said Wednesday’s seven-mile trip to Clifton was a productive one.

“It’s nice to go inside and throw the football and run the football and make cuts and do all of those things without having to worry about falling down in the ice and the wind,” Whitworth said. “You’re trying to work on looks and everything, it’s hard to get the speed of the looks when everybody’s worried about their footing and the conditions we’re in.“You want to stay off the ground this late in the year, and it’s kind of hard to do when it’s wet and nasty outside,” he continued. “It’s better to be dry and inside. It’s good for us to go in there and get a sweat in and fly around.

[fredtoast]

(02-12-2020, 06:15 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This one?

Sounds like Whit is fine with the UC facility.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-12-2020, 06:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sounds like Whit is fine with the UC facility.

Sure does. Sounds like he'd like to use it more than twice a year too.

Maybe we should get one???

[Shake n Blake]

(02-12-2020, 06:15 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This one?

That be the one.

(02-12-2020, 06:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sounds like Whit is fine with the UC facility.

(02-12-2020, 06:39 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Sure does. Sounds like he'd like to use it more than twice a year too.

Maybe we should get one???

Exactly what I was going to say. The UC facility requires planning ahead and asking UC permission.

It also doesn't have an NFL weight room or other amenities.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-12-2020, 06:12 PM)Destro Wrote: Considering we are the worst team in the league, again and have not won a playoff game in modern history, I don't put a lot of stock in the Bengals doing anything the right way. Anyone know all the teams that have facilities? Do they tend to play better than the Bengals?

As of the date of this article, 10 teams were without practice facilities: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cf4765/article/snow-forces-redskins-to-gym-shanahan-seeks-indoor-facility

The Bengals and Redskins were the northernmost teams without one, but the article says Washington doesn't receive much snow during the season, but that high winds and rain were the issue for them.

As of 2013, the Skins have a facility: https://redskinsrva.bonsecours.com/the-center

The Panthers have plans for a massive facility: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/04/24/nfl-carolina-panthers-headquarters-sc-plan-massive-complex-hotel-sports-medicine-york-county/3560212002/

The Jaguars have one as of 2017: https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/jaguars-unveil-new-indoor-practice-facility-at-dailys-place/462018938

The Bucs as of 2018: https://www.bucsnation.com/2018/8/27/17788380/one-buc-place-has-a-new-name-tampa-bay-buccaneers-bucs

The Cowboys have one: https://www.thestarinfrisco.com/

The Cardinals have one: https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/2018/10/10/dignity-health-arizona-cardinals-agree-naming-rights-tempe-facility/1592199002/

The Raiders had one in Oakland: https://www.raiders.com/photos/youth-alive-visit-the-oakland-raiders-practice-facility#39894553-8392-4ac0-828c-4b9c7229e557

Now the Raiders will have one in Las Vegas: https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/11/raiders-close-deal-on-las-vegas-practice-facility/

The 49ers have one: https://www.ninersnation.com/2014/5/5/5685594/49ers-officially-re-name-training-facility-sap-performance-facility

---------------

That officially leaves the Bengals as the only team in the league without a practice facility.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-12-2020, 03:58 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Imagine a full practice, with all it's regular participants and attendees, then imagine moving them to this space, and be able to conduct routine drills and walkthroughs...

Looks nice, can even get some hoops in.

[t3r3e3]

(02-12-2020, 02:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You know that the FO (and a percentage of fans) believe that practicing in the same environment you will play in helps make you tougher and better prepare you for game day.
And given that no team in the division has an indoor stadium, they don't see the need to practice indoors on a typical basis when it gets to frigid temps and weather.

Two of the division teams have titles in the interim, and multiple titles in the past 20 years. All division teams have Playoff wins more recently than the Bengals. Mike never had to run a legit business where providing a superior product and/or caring for your workforce made the company healthy and profitable. Not running a legit business also resulted in Mike not understanding that if your competitors are maximizing opportunities to provide a superior product and providing extra benefits to the workforce then you as a rival business must do the same or similar. Otherwise, you attract inferior employees and usually produce an inferior product. The practice bubble is one more example of not maximizing the potential product and caring for employees.