My Coworker is CONVINCED

[Stewy]

(02-20-2020, 02:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: He thinks we trade for Cam and thinks we release Andy. Like I said, he doesn't know how the Bengals operate. I've tried to set him straight but he's absolutely convinced we're getting Cam.

Ok so what's his reasoning?  I'd rather stick with Andy, than TRADE for Cam.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2020, 01:38 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: There is a post going around another message board I'm on about what the Bengals should do with the first pick. Some of the more respected insiders  (including a former Bengal) weighed in and all agree they should either draft Chase Young or trade the pick for lots of picks. Their reasons were:

1- When drafting #1, you take the most sure thing. They all think Young will be an All-Pro/HOF type player.
2- They think you can get QBs at other places in the draft/free agency. They sited that only 1 QB drafted 1st overall in the last 20 years has won a Superbowl.
3- Just a year ago, Burrow wasn't thought of as a pro-prospect. His lack of success until this 'advanced age' scares them off. Said his ceiling is Andrew Luck but he could be another Mitch Trubisky - one year wonder.
4- Listed quite a few high drafted QBs that flamed out because of bad Offensive Lines. Said the Bengals line is horrible and they should build up the team first. Listed KC, SF, & Balt as teams with either 2 Pro-Bowl tackles or 2 1st round tackles starting on O-line.

Eh, anything could happen but you take the Franchise QB over a pass rusher, sorry.

We have pass rushers. Chase Young is a great prospect and if we didn't need a QB that wins in big games I would Draft him.

We need a QB that plays good in big games more than another pass rusher.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-20-2020, 02:59 PM)Stewy Wrote: Ok so what's his reasoning?  I'd rather stick with Andy, than TRADE for Cam.

His reasoning is the Bengals suck and make stupid decisions.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-20-2020, 01:47 PM)grampahol Wrote: What? You mean Dan Coats isn't a living legend in Cincinnati? C'mon..

No need to bring Stone Hands into this! 

[*ochocincos*]

Cam is over a year younger than Dalton, but he's been more injury-prone.
He's also less accurate but he's much more productive as a runner.
While Cam has had more success in terms of win-loss percentage both in the regular season (55% vs 53%) and postseason, he'd had fewer actual wins in the regular season (68 vs 71).
Cam has actually been to a Super Bowl whereas Dalton hasn't won a playoff game.
The last part is that both Cam and Dalton are in the final year of their contracts, and Cam is about $3.5 mill more.

So is it worth taking on about $3.5 mill more in cap hit for someone who is more injury-prone but has been (somewhat) more productive overall in his career (especially in postseason)?

I'd say no, but I think a case could be made. If the Bengals were picking around the middle of the first round such that there wasn't much confidence in getting Burrow or Tagovailoa, I'd consider Cam as long as his ankle recovery checks out.

[Joelist]

(02-20-2020, 04:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Cam is over a year younger than Dalton, but he's been more injury-prone.
He's also less accurate but he's much more productive as a runner.
While Cam has had more success in terms of win-loss percentage both in the regular season (55% vs 53%) and postseason, he'd had fewer actual wins in the regular season (68 vs 71).
Cam has actually been to a Super Bowl whereas Dalton hasn't won a playoff game.
The last part is that both Cam and Dalton are in the final year of their contracts, and Cam is about $3.5 mill more.

So is it worth taking on about $3.5 mill more in cap hit for someone who is more injury-prone but has been (somewhat) more productive overall in his career (especially in postseason)?

I'd say no, but I think a case could be made. If the Bengals were picking around the middle of the first round such that there wasn't much confidence in getting Burrow or Tagovailoa, I'd consider Cam as long as his ankle recovery checks out.

Let's not forget the rest of it.

Cam got to a Super Bowl more in spite of him than because of him - it was the Panthers all world defense that season that did it. In said Super Bowl he played terrible and (like his entire career) showed the emotional maturity of a toddler. He is also a locker room cancer. The last thing we need is a man-baby on the team. 

As to Burrow, let's stop the one year wonder stuff - I had heard the raves about him last season too. Especially respected football people wondering how he would do in a more QB friendly scheme. Well, we found out and it was amazing. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-20-2020, 04:21 PM)Joelist Wrote: Let's not forget the rest of it.

Cam got to a Super Bowl more in spite of him than because of him - it was the Panthers all world defense that season that did it. In said Super Bowl he played terrible and (like his entire career) showed the emotional maturity of a toddler. He is also a locker room cancer. The last thing we need is a man-baby on the team. 

As to Burrow, let's stop the one year wonder stuff - I had heard the raves about him last season too. Especially respected football people wondering how he would do in a more QB friendly scheme. Well, we found out and it was amazing. 

I disagree about Panthers getting to Super Bowl in spite of Cam. Cam had nearly 4000 yards with 35 TDs and only 10 INTs. He had another 600 rushing yards with 10 more TDs on the ground. He was listed as an All Pro, which is actually more meaningful than Pro Bowl.

They didn't have a 1000 yard rusher that year either, and their receivers weren't the best (best WR only 739 yards and it was Ted Ginn). Olsen and Cam were basically the offense.

Yet despite having only one good offensive weapon in Olsen, Cam and the Panthers ended up with 1st ranked offense in points and 11th in yards.
Yes, their defense was 6th in the league, but don't act like the offense (or Cam specifically) was bad.

Why you bringing up Burrow? I didn't say anything about him being a one-year wonder recently at all, and I haven't held that against him for at least a couple months.

[CJD]

Your coworker probably listens to Florio as much as you watch Fox News.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-20-2020, 04:31 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Your coworker probably listens to Florio as much as you watch Fox News.

Yo. Why you gotta bring politics into this?

[Hammerstripes]

(02-20-2020, 02:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well, many people here swore that Mike Brown would NEVER use a first round pick on a TE or Guard until he did it.

Not saying what Mike will do with an offer for Burrow.  Just saying that the past does not always predict the future.

That's significantly different.  Those are positions that he values much less than a QB.  

[CJD]

(02-20-2020, 04:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yo. Why you gotta bring politics into this?

[J24]

IF(it's a big if) we don't draft Burrow ( I would suspect we traded the pick) I would think we would trade for Carr over Newton.

[*Nately120*]

(02-20-2020, 04:21 PM)Joelist Wrote: Let's not forget the rest of it.

Cam got to a Super Bowl more in spite of him than because of him - it was the Panthers all world defense that season that did it. In said Super Bowl he played terrible and (like his entire career) showed the emotional maturity of a toddler. He is also a locker room cancer. The last thing we need is a man-baby on the team. 

As to Burrow, let's stop the one year wonder stuff - I had heard the raves about him last season too. Especially respected football people wondering how he would do in a more QB friendly scheme. Well, we found out and it was amazing. 

Cam was the league MVP in 2015.

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2020, 02:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We need a QB that plays good in big games more than another pass rusher.

Dalton played good in big games in college.  His senior season TCU won the Rose Bowl finished undefeated and ranked #2 in the country.

Burrow lost as many games in his final two seasons (25-3) as Dalton did in his final three seasons (34-3)

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2020, 04:36 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: That's significantly different.  Those are positions that he values much less than a QB.  

No it is not different.  It is an attempt to prove he will never do something because he has never done it before.

Believe me, the people who swore he would never draft a Guard in the first round were just as convinced they were correct as you are now.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(02-20-2020, 04:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yo. Why you gotta bring politics into this?

I tell ya...

[fortyyearfan]

(02-20-2020, 01:26 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I'm not American and have no horse in this race, but did you REALLY need to take a political jab?

Only person talking to me about this is my dad (a Cowboys fan) and he thinks this is all bullshit.

He is so full of horse--sh---t. Cam Newton is not coming anywhere near us and we do not want him. He stinks. Joe Burrow will be our starting qb in 2020 and we are going to be in the playoffs within two season.I give ZT three years to make playoffs and 4 to be in the hunt for the superbowl barring major injuries.Look out buttholes,here we come and all of us bengals fans,please remember all the nfl pundits that have been slamming us and telling anyone  to not draft Joe.Remember who they are. :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

[*ochocincos*]

(02-20-2020, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton played good in big games in college.  His senior season TCU won the Rose Bowl finished undefeated and ranked #2 in the country.

Burrow lost as many games in his final two seasons (25-3) as Dalton did in his final three seasons (34-3)

All true, but Dalton also played in the MWC at the time.
It's not the same as going through Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Oklahoma, and Clemson to win the National Championship.

Also, Dalton's stat line in that Wisconsin Rose Bowl game:
219 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs. 28 rush yards with 1 rushing TD.

Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Iowa, and Northwestern all put up more points against Wisconsin than TCU did.

Dalton has proven to be a good QB both at the college and NFL level, but he didn't have as good of a resume coming into the draft as Burrow has.

It will be tough, but I definitely expect Burrow to be in the running for Top 10 QB year after year in the NFL. I didn't have that expectation for Dalton.

[grampahol]

(02-20-2020, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it is not different.  It is an attempt to prove he will never do something because he has never done it before.

Believe me, the people who swore he would never draft a Guard in the first round were just as convinced they were correct as you are now.

C'mon Fred..You and I know there's never been any such thing as a Bengals fan that's ever been wrong about anything...
Well, there was that one time, but it's all been forgiven and everything's back to everyone is perfectly correct about everything.

Gosh, it sure is nice to never be wrong about anything...ain't it?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-20-2020, 05:37 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I tell ya...

Ya know, I've never actually checked out our P&R forum.
I'm honestly scared to go in there and I'd probably end up liking a lot of people less if I do, so I'll stay out haha.