What say you who give up on rookies and call them a bust?

[Luvnit2]

Come on, we know you are out there busting on rookies. Some have said Jordan was horrible, but did they realize he was a 20 year old rookie playing against 30 year old men in the NFL?

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-guard-michael-jordan-looks-to-be-a-force-in-the-making?fbclid=IwAR3iROwBfbc27dgAKbiZysrUew9twth6yLLMY1DNvGSkltYqt6mdV6w-aTA

Nice article on the now only 21 year old OL for the Bengals. Let's see how he progresses in 2020. He is also a local young man and fan.

[fredtoast]

I was very happy to get him in the 4th round. I am still very high on his potential.

I think the 2015 draft was the single biggest cause for our tumble from playoff level to hot garbage. Burning our 1st and 2nd round picks on O-line busts killed us. If we end up getting a top LT and a solid starter LG from the '19 draft that would be a huge help turning us back around.

[3wt]

(05-04-2020, 01:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was very happy to get him in the 4th round.  I am still very high on his potential.  

I think the 2015 draft was the single biggest cause for our tumble from playoff level to hot garbage.  Burning our 1st and 2nd round picks on O-line busts killed us.  If we end up getting a top LT and a solid starter LG from the '19 draft that would be a huge help turning us back around.

What was your take on his progress at the end of the season?


What do other members of the board who have played college ball think?

[Luvnit2]

(05-04-2020, 01:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was very happy to get him in the 4th round.  I am still very high on his potential.  

I think the 2015 draft was the single biggest cause for our tumble from playoff level to hot garbage.  Burning our 1st and 2nd round picks on O-line busts killed us.  If we end up getting a top LT and a solid starter LG from the '19 draft that would be a huge help turning us back around.

I forgot he was only 20 years old. Yes, we had a major screw up that not only bad OL, but caused us to lose my favorite OT Whittworth who along was my 2nd favorite LT in our history. It was a domino effect starting with ticking off the wife of Whitt.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2020, 02:13 PM)3wt Wrote: What was your take on his progress at the end of the season?


What do other members of the board who have played college ball think?

I don't break down film or grade individual players.  From just watching the games the run blocking obviously got a lot better, but that was the whole line and due to a change in scheme.  I didn't really see any improvement in pass blocking except when Glenn returned.  even then Glenn did not look that good.  Just better than Dre and Jerry who I predict have both played their last games in the NFL

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-04-2020, 01:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was very happy to get him in the 4th round.  I am still very high on his potential.  

I think the 2015 draft was the single biggest cause for our tumble from playoff level to hot garbage.  Burning our 1st and 2nd round picks on O-line busts killed us.  If we end up getting a top LT and a solid starter LG from the '19 draft that would be a huge help turning us back around.

Wasn't just the burning 1st and 2nd round picks on OL busts, which was obviously not good.

The real back breaker was when they saw how they were terrible in 2015-2016, but doubled down on making them starters anyway by letting their All-Pro LT and solidly above average RG leave in FA.

The former mistake can hurt you, but the latter mistake is what crushed them. (Well, that and a series of absurdly uninspired in-house OC and later bland DC hirings.)

[*bengalfan74*]

Jordan I still have hope for, no where near ready to put bust label on him. Price on the other hand...…. he needs to put up or shut up. I've all but given up on him.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-04-2020, 12:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Come on, we know you are out there busting on rookies. Some have said Jordan was horrible, but did they realize he was a 20 year old rookie playing against 30 year old men in the NFL?

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-guard-michael-jordan-looks-to-be-a-force-in-the-making?fbclid=IwAR3iROwBfbc27dgAKbiZysrUew9twth6yLLMY1DNvGSkltYqt6mdV6w-aTA

Nice article on the now only 21 year old OL for the Bengals. Let's see how he progresses in 2020. He is also a local young man and fan.

What's your opinion on Ogbuehi?  Only 28 years old, playing against 30 year old men, coming off an ACL injury barely 5 years ago, and still developing?

[SunsetBengal]

(05-04-2020, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't break down film or grade individual players.  From just watching the games the run blocking obviously got a lot better, but that was the whole line and due to a change in scheme.  I didn't really see any improvement in pass blocking except when Glenn returned.  even then Glenn did not look that good.  Just better than Dre and Jerry who I predict have both played their last games in the NFL

Sure, the OL improved as a unit after the blocking scheme was adjusted.  However, the OL is a unit comprised of individuals working together.  I don't feel like you can credit the unit with improving, without also noting that the individuals played better, themselves.

[Gdale_Bengal]

I’d never call a rookie or 2nd year player a bust wherever they were drafted.

Year 3 and 4 players who were first round picks and can’t crack the starting line up? You can call them busts.

Price and Ross picks have been terrible.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I don’t remember anyone calling Michael Jordan a bust last season. There was plenty of criticism towards him, and rightfully so, but bust talk? No. He could still turn out decent.

Billy Price OTOH...

[Circleville Guy]

(05-04-2020, 12:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Come on, we know you are out there busting on rookies. Some have said Jordan was horrible, but did they realize he was a 20 year old rookie playing against 30 year old men in the NFL?

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-guard-michael-jordan-looks-to-be-a-force-in-the-making?fbclid=IwAR3iROwBfbc27dgAKbiZysrUew9twth6yLLMY1DNvGSkltYqt6mdV6w-aTA

Nice article on the now only 21 year old OL for the Bengals. Let's see how he progresses in 2020. He is also a local young man and fan.

Jordan did mostly look horrible. I don’t know of anyone calling him a bust or saying that he can’t develop. He’s the type of guy that should be a rotational guy that has to earn a starting spot and not Plan A at any position. It’s not his fault if he is Plan A but until he does improve, just why should we jump for joy that he is Plan A?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Some players, 1 year is all you need to see. Ogbuehi played in 5 games and was literally the worst OL I have ever seen play in the NFL. That is not exaggerated. I seriously can't think of anyone with a worse showing. 2016 was a losing season in large part because he played so much (And Ken Zampese offense.)

Even Price I didn't fully give up on until his second year.

Will Clark and Margus Hunt only took a year to realize they were no good. Jerome Simpson being a 2nd round healthy scratch as a rookie was all you needed to know.

[Luvnit2]

(05-04-2020, 03:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What's your opinion on Ogbuehi?  Only 28 years old, playing against 30 year old men, coming off an ACL injury barely 5 years ago, and still developing?

Are you trying to set me up because you are guilty of something?

I will play along. My opinion is we now have lots of tape and know Ced. was a bad pick, a very bad pick. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-04-2020, 04:04 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I’d never call a rookie or 2nd year player a bust wherever they were drafted.

I find it hard to believe you think the NFL gave up on Johnny Manziel and Jamarcus Russel too soon.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2020, 04:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Some players, 1 year is all you need to see. 

Sure, as long as you are making the judgements with the benefit of hindsight.  


No matter how bad a rookie looks he still has the chance to improve.  Just way to many examples to prove this is correct.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-04-2020, 04:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Are you trying to set me up because you are guilty of something?

I will play along. My opinion is we now have lots of tape and know Ced. was a bad pick, a very bad pick. 

So when is someone allowed to have an opinion on a player? Do fans and the team need to wait until after the 4th or 5th year?  When did you know Ogbuehi was a very bad pick? When he was a Jacksonville Jaguar?

[KillerGoose]

(05-04-2020, 04:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t remember anyone calling Michael Jordan a bust last season. There was plenty of criticism towards him, and rightfully so, but bust talk? No. He could still turn out decent.

Billy Price OTOH...

Just reading the name "Billy Price" makes me irrationally frustrated. I wasn't the hugest fan of the pick but certainly didn't hate it. The crowing from OSU fans about how he was going to anchor the line for years certainly got old, as it usually does.

The dude just sucks, flat out. I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest he is getting better. Hopefully he pulls it off this coming season because it is much needed.

[KillerGoose]

(05-04-2020, 05:23 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So when is someone allowed to have an opinion on a player? Do fans and the team need to wait until after the 4th or 5th year?  When did you know Ogbuehi was a very bad pick? When he was a Jacksonville Jaguar?

I would say you can form an opinion of a player after one season, but that opinion shouldn't be immune to change. Devante Parker is a great example of this. His performance was disappointing for his draft position and then he busts out last season for over 1200 yards and nine TDs. 

Jordan wasn't good last season, but he was a young guy and a rookie. I wouldn't expect him to light it up. Ross hasn't been good up until this point, either. He has shown flashes, though. I am not going to argue with someone if they call him a bust, just like I wouldn't have argued with someone over Devante Parker, but Ross can still turn it around.

Billy Price is solidly in the bust category at the point. He can pull himself out of it, of course, but his career has been pitiful and he has shown little to no reason to believe he is improving. 

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2020, 04:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:  Jerome Simpson being a 2nd round healthy scratch as a rookie was all you needed to know.

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen.  Simpson played more as a rookie than lots of players who went on to have fine NFL careers.

Plus Jerome Simpson went on to have multiple seasons with over 700 receiving yards.  Not a big star, but far from a big bust.  Since Simpson was drafted in 2008 there have been 62 WRs taken in the second round.  Fewer than half of them (28) have had multiple 700 yard seasons.  Only 16 of the 62 had more than Jerome.