Which team was a better team 2005 or 2015

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-10-2020, 08:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Meh, something leads me to believe that the statuesque Mr. Palmer was likely more than happy with being blessed with Reggie Kelly's blocking ability..

Our OL was like top 5 in 05, I think he’d rather have an elite pass catching TE...

Not knocking Kelly, but Eifert was a Pro Bowl TE that was one of the most dangerous RZ threats in the league that year. He had like half of Dalton’s passing TD’s...

[SunsetBengal]

(05-10-2020, 08:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Our OL was like top 5 in 05, I think he’d rather have an elite pass catching TE...

Not knocking Kelly, but Eifert was a Pro Bowl TE that was one of the most dangerous RZ threats in the league that year. He had like half of Dalton’s passing TD’s...

2015 OL was great, save for Center.  They did it with a lot of 5 man protection, and 5+HB or RB in 3rd down and obvious passing situations.  Difference was Andy still moved around in 2015, but Palmer was pretty much a statue from day one, and it only got worse after the knee injury.

[*SHRacerX*]

I don't believe the Bengals would have matched up well with Indy in 2005, but I do believe that 2015 team would be beat (ironically) Manning in the Super Bowl when he was with Denver. I understand it would have been the AFC title game and not the Super Bowl, but I digress. Even as badly as the NFL wanted Manning to win that year, I think the 2015 Bengals team was better. Hell, McCarron almost beat them in Denver, on a prime time game that season. With Dalton, I think they had a really good chance to win it all.

[*bengalfan74*]

2015

The 05 team would have had a really good shot at beating the Squeelers…….but, they likely weren't going any further. The 15 team was more well rounded. Had Dalton not went down they probably win a couple games in playoffs, perhaps with a little luck even more ?

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2020, 07:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Can we PLEASE put this false history to rest already?

Burfict had a FF, a sack that knocked Roethlisberger out of the game for awhile, and an INT that should have sealed the win. Burfict is literally the reason they were in position to win that game. He was the key reason why the 3rd overall/4th ranked scoring offense was held to just 15 points through 58 minutes despite McCarron having an INT and 3 Fumbles and scoring 0 points through 3 quarters.

All Jeremy Hill had to do was not fumble. That's it. Hill doesn't fumble and the Bengals win. It's really that simple. He didn't even need to get a first down because they were already in FG range... just fall forward for 2 yards 3 times, let the kicker kick a 37 yard FG, and then the Steelers had essentially zero time and had to score a TD. That's a win. JUST. DON'T. FUMBLE.

Stealerd had all three time outs left.  Had we ran three plays and kick a FG they still get the ball back with over a minute left and a chance to win.

It is 100% wrong to claim the defense never had to play another snap to seal the win.  We could not burn the clock.  They would have had to stop the Stealers no matter what and they failed.

I am not excusing Hill for his screw up, but I am not excusing the defense either.

[Pat5775]

Personally, I liked the 2005 a lot more. Mostly for nostalgic purposes. That was the first Bengals team in my life that was borderline great. But realistically, the 2015 team was far better overall. It’s not even close. Chuck Bresnahans defenses were lucky, but seldom good overall.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-11-2020, 10:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Stealerd had all three time outs left.  Had we ran three plays and kick a FG they still get the ball back with over a minute left and a chance to win.

It is 100% wrong to claim the defense never had to play another snap to seal the win.  We could not burn the clock.  They would have had to stop the Stealers no matter what and they failed.

I am not excusing Hill for his screw up, but I am not excusing the defense either.

Fred, do me a favor and show me where I said "the defense never had to play another snap". I even said the Steelers would have to score a TD in the post you quoted.

The Steelers would have about a minute with zero timeouts (basically zero time) to score a TD, and Roethlisberger's shoulder was hurt. That is a win.

[*bfine32*]

The 2013 team was more talented than the 2015 team. Benjarvis was running over fools and Gresh was in beastmode in that game. Unfortunately we try to put the game in Andy's hands the 2nd half. Hell, we probably win that one is Andy was hurt.

[*ochocincos*]

I had to go with 2015.

2015 league ranks:
offense - 7th in PF (419 points), 15th in yards (5728)
defense - 2nd in PA (279 points), 11th in yards allowed (5453)

2005 league ranks:
offense - 2nd in PF (421 points), 6th in yards (5730)
defense - 22nd in PA (350 points), 28th in yards allowed (5419)

The big difference is the bolded. 2015 and 2005, while they may not have felt that way, had near identical PF, yards, and yards allowed. 2015 had (much) fewer PA, making it the better overall team.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-11-2020, 10:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Stealerd had all three time outs left.  Had we ran three plays and kick a FG they still get the ball back with over a minute left and a chance to win.

It is 100% wrong to claim the defense never had to play another snap to seal the win.  We could not burn the clock.  They would have had to stop the Stealers no matter what and they failed.

I am not excusing Hill for his screw up, but I am not excusing the defense either.

Correct.

The difference though is that the defense would have had an easier situation, as the Steelers would have been down by 4 with 0 timeouts, thus needing to go the whole length of the field and no timeouts to stop the clock.

That is, of course, assuming Nugent doesn't miss the FG.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2020, 12:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Fred, do me a favor and show me where I said "the defense never had to play another snap". I even said the Steelers would have to score a TD in the post you quoted.

The Steelers would have about a minute with zero timeouts (basically zero time) to score a TD, and Roethlisberger's shoulder was hurt. That is a win.

I have no idea what your point is, but I will make mine very clear.

Anyone who thinks it is impossible to score a td with less than a minute left doesn't know anything about NFL football.  

The game would not have been over if we kick a FG.  The defense still had to stop the Stealers.

I don't excuse Hill, but it is crazy not to place a good portion of the blame on our defense.  Even though Ben was hurting the Stealers went 74 yards in less than a minute.

[*bfine32*]

As to Leonard's/ Fred's back and forth: I don't blame any Bengals.

Jeremy Hill was trying his hardest to gain yards and seal the game

Vontaze Burfict was the reason we were winning the game

I do blame the refs for not calling a foul when Gio received a cheaper hit than AB and they didn't call that one. Burfict may have thought "they're letting us play"

I do blame the refs for not flagging Joey Porter for running onto the field, but instead flag Pacman for telling him to GTFO.

So I blame the refs. They should have been wearing black and yellow instead of black and white

[Jason_NC]

2015. More complete on O, and the D didn't rely on a turnover to get a stop.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2020, 01:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The 2013 team was more talented than the 2015 team. Benjarvis was running over fools and Gresh was in beastmode  in that game. Unfortunately we try to put the game in Andy's hands the 2nd half. Hell, we probably win that one is Andy was hurt.

2013 team was not in the same class as the 2015 team.

The claim the Bengals were running at will over the Chargers and just decided to stop trying is also false.  Second half the Bengals ran the ball 5 of their first 6 first downs.  Benny started the second half with a nice run but on those next 4 first down rushes he and Gio combined for just 8 total yards.

I still don't understand what happened in that game.  The second half our offensive line forgot how to block for the run or the pass (Dalton was sacked 3 times and forced to scramble/run 3 other times in 2nd half) and our defense could not stop the run (SD 19 carries for 118 in second half)

Dalton had a terrible game, but you can't blame him for the loss.  The whole team crumbled

[samhain]

2015 and not all that close. The 05 defense was all smoke and mirrors. They were good at getting takeaways, but not much else. The 2015 defense was beastly on the DL and in the secondary.

Offensively, the run game was certainly better in 05, but that's the only major advantage IMO. I like a healthy Palmer better than Andy at quarterback, but it's not like Andy wasn't getting it done that year.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-11-2020, 01:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have no idea what your point is, but I will make mine very clear.

Anyone who thinks it is impossible to score a td with less than a minute left doesn't know anything about NFL football.  

The game would not have been over if we kick a FG.  The defense still had to stop the Stealers.

I don't excuse Hill, but it is crazy not to place a good portion of the blame on our defense.  Even though Ben was hurting the Stealers went 74 yards in less than a minute.

My point is you said "It is 100% wrong to claim the defense never had to play another snap to seal the win." but nobody claimed that.
- - - - - - - - - - - -


Except they didn't.

Hill fumbled at 1:36, the first Steelers play was at 1:23, they got the penalties at 0:22, and they kicked the FG at 0:18. More than a minute.

That was with the D being gutted by the O immediately giving back their turnover, and the Steelers knowing they only needed a FG to win rather than a TD.

Now imagine the Bengals burned the time with 3 runs (even with the TO that's what, 4 seconds a run? 12 seconds) then you have a FG which burns another 5 seconds, 17 seconds. Then you have a kickoff that you'd short kick so they had to return it (another 6+ seconds, 23 total). That's a conservative estimate.

 You give the Steelers 1 minute 13 seconds (at the very most), 0 TO, and tell them they need to score a TD to win against the 2nd scoring defense in the NFL? Yeah, that is a Bengals win.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-11-2020, 01:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to Leonard's/ Fred's back and forth: I don't blame any Bengals.

Jeremy Hill was trying his hardest to gain yards and seal the game

Vontaze Burfict was the reason we were winning the game

I do blame the refs for not calling a foul when Gio received a cheaper hit than AB and they didn't call that one. Burfict may have thought "they're letting us play"

I do blame the refs for not flagging Joey Porter for running onto the field, but instead flag Pacman for telling him to GTFO.

So I blame the refs. They should have been wearing black and yellow instead of black and white

Except he didn't put two hands on the ball. That's unacceptable in that scenario. He didn't try to put a second hand on the ball until it was already coming out. He puts two hands on the ball and he doesn't fumble. He doesn't fumble, the Bengals win.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2020, 02:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:  You give the Steelers 1 minute 13 seconds (at the very most), 0 TO, and tell them they need to score a TD to win against the 2nd scoring defense in the NFL? Yeah, that is a Bengals win.

Wrong.

It is only a TD if the defense does not implode and hand the Stealers a victory.

Which is exactly what happened.

You can't just pretend stuff in your head and claim it is true.  You REALLY think there has never been an NFL team that scored a TD with in 1:13?  How much are you willing to bet on that?

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2020, 02:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except he didn't put two hands on the ball. That's unacceptable in that scenario. He didn't try to put a second hand on the ball until it was already coming out. He puts two hands on the ball and he doesn't fumble. He doesn't fumble, the Bengals win.

So you don't find anything unacceptable about the way the defense played after the fumble?

If the defense does not implode the Bengals win.  

[*Synric*]

An offseason which team was better 2015 or 2005 thread....Has to be a first


It doesnt matter. Both teams failed to win a playoff game with a backup QB.