NFL's 4th and 15 proposal and the Bengals

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-updates-language-on-4th-and-15-proposal-taking-out-trailing-requirement

Quote:NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported Friday that the updated language on the proposed rule change, which would allow teams to retain possession after a score by converting a fourth-and-15 play from its own 25-yard-line, takes out the requirement the team must be trailing to employ the maneuver.

Have the Bengals FA additions to the defensive backfield improved or weakened their chances of defending against it? Gone are Joseph and Kirkpatrick and it looks like Shawn Williams will either lose some snaps or play a S/LB hybrid.
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Bengals WRs may be ranked 11th by PFF but they suck as a whole at getting separation. Boyd is great in the short range but doesn't catch a lot of balls 15 yards past the LOS. Ross still has great speed but is very unreliable. Tee Higgins is a big question mark. Some rookie WRs jump right in, some take awhile to get everything up to speed.

AJ is awesome . . . BUT, he doesn't really do a lot when contesting for a 50/50 ball with a DB. Julio Jones is probably the best at that right now with DeAndre Hopkins a close 2nd. Anquan Boldin was the best I ever saw at fighting for the ball. That was a big part of Steve Smith's greatness. AJ doesn't appear to have that tough guy, killer spirit that they do.

Losing Eifert hurts because he's made for 4th and 15 type of situations. Whether CJ or Sample can fill that role remains to be seen but that is a drop off.

Like most good RBs, Mixon and Gio are both very dangerous in the open field. I could see a roll out to one side and a screen set-up on the other. Neither is likely to be involved in a 4th and 15 situation other than a screen or blocking

Burrow is another question mark. A strong arm with a college ball doesn't mean a smooth transition to an NFL ball. There are adjustments to be made. Hopefully they can game plan around his strengths and work from there. I had that hope last year and wasn't impressed. Zac needs to step up.

If the rule is approved, I don't see this Bengals team being that threatening on 4th and 15. Next year, though . . .

Thoughts?

[yellowxdiscipline]

Lets just take away the kicker position all together then. This 4th and 15 proposal is ***** dumb.

[fredtoast]

There is not a team in the league that could consistently convert a 4th and 15.

I have been proposing this same thing for a couple of years, but as part of converting the kick off to a punt. A punt still gives the excitement of a return without have all 22 players running at each other full speed. Therefore it should not be as dangerous as kick offs.

Just make EVERY kick off a 4th and 15. Then if teams want to try to covert they could use a fake punt the way some teams use a "surprise" on side kick at times other than the end of a game.

BTW I did not come up with that idea, but I forget where I first read it.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

a ticky tack holding call or incidental face mask auto first down brutal. If they insist on this insanity no 5 yard penalty on this particular play should be auto fist down. 4th and 20 from the 20 sounds more reasonable as well.

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2020, 03:28 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Lets just take away the kicker position all together then. This 4th and 15 proposal is ***** dumb.

I'd much rather have a punt as a kickoff instead of not kick off at all.

The current rules have basically removed the kick off return, but we still have to sit and watch a meaningless play with no return.


In 2009 thirty teams had more than 50 kick returns.  Detroit had over 90 and the Jets were 32nd with only 44.

In 2019 zero teams had more than 50 kick returns.  The Giants led the league with only 49.  They were the only team with more than 44.

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2020, 03:37 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote:  If they insist on this insanity no 5 yard penalty on this particular play should be auto fist down. 

That is a really good point that I had not thought about.  But they can't just ignore 5 yard penalties.  Instead they get another play at 4th and 10.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(05-22-2020, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd much rather have a punt as a kickoff instead of not kick off at all.

The current rules have basically removed the kick off return, but we still have to sit and watch a meaningless play with no return.


In 2009 thirty teams had more than 50 kick returns.  Detroit had over 90 and the Jets were 32nd with only 44.

In 2019 zero teams had more than 50 kick returns.  The Giants led the league with only 49.  They were the only team with more than 44.

I feel like the odds of hitting a 4th and 15 are greater then successfully attempting an onside kick. Not requiring a kicker to be skillful enough to make a good onside attempt diminishes the importance of the position IMO. 

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2020, 04:54 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I feel like the odds of hitting a 4th and 15 are greater then successfully attempting an onside kick. Not requiring a kicker to be skillful enough to make a good onside attempt diminishes the importance of the position IMO. 

I am assuming it is another attempt to make the play safer.

But unless they make every kickoff a 4th and 15 (punt) then I would agree with you and be opposed to just making on-side kicks a 4th and 15.  There is nothing cooler than a surprise on side kick when no one is expecting it.  I still remember when the saints did it in the Super Bowl.  If it works it can be a major game changer to score and then get the ball right back.

[motoarch]

(05-22-2020, 03:28 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Lets just take away the kicker position all together then. This 4th and 15 proposal is ***** dumb.

Kickers are dumb.  Get rid of them.

[sandwedge]

I really liked what the XFL did before they folded this year, on KOs. The kicker kick from his 40 and his teammates lined up at the 30 yd line of the receiving team. The receiving team lined up at the 25 yd (5 yds across from the other team). The returner was at goal line. Nobody could move till he caught the ball.

[MasonDT70]

(05-22-2020, 06:21 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I really liked what the XFL did before they folded this year, on KOs. The kicker kick from his 40 and his teammates lined up at the 30 yd line of the receiving team. The receiving team lined up at the 25 yd (5 yds across from the other team). The returner was at goal line. Nobody could move till he caught the ball.

I liked that as well. I would be all for that.

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[J24]

I would hate this rule all a team has to do is throw a jump ball to a WR and would be bailed out by a Re by calling a pass Interference call.

[Wes Mantooth]

This is so stupid. Just Leave the game alone. Don't try to fix what's not broken.

[Bilbo Saggins]

If the concern with the onside kick is player safety, I'd think that there would be more interesting options than the 4th and 15. You could have the kicker attempt to drill a kick through the uprights from the opposite side of the field, have the kicker attempt to make several kicks in a row from challenging distances, etc.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-22-2020, 07:07 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This is so stupid. Just Leave the game alone. Don't try to fix what's not broken.

Yep, I don’t get why the NFL tries to make some new rule change every year. It’s driving more fans away than it is bringing new interest into the game.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Well I tried to make it Bengals related

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-22-2020, 07:25 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Well I tried to make it Bengals related

I disagree with your OP portion about AJ not fighting for 50/50 balls. AJ made a name for himself in the league doing just that. If we have any 4th and 15s AJ is our best chance and teams will cover him knowing that.

Taylor will have to scheme up some good plays to get a guy open like Ross or Tate, maybe even Higgins. That may be our best shot.

[Kingslayer]

I kinda like the rule. Huge risk vs reward

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-22-2020, 08:13 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: I kinda like the rule. Huge risk vs reward

How is an onside kick not huge risk vs reward? I think a successful onside kick is one of the most exciting things in the game..

[GreenCornBengal]

How does this rule effect spontaneous onside kicks? I’m thinking Saints in the super bowl and Parcells before that. Would teams still be allowed to do that?? I hope so. Those were some of the greatest coaching decisions in NFL history.