Joe speaks out

[Shake n Blake]

(05-29-2020, 11:36 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Black lives do matter.  Seems to me that too many people only believe that when they're the victim of white cops.  Black lives don't seem to matter to lots of urban gang members.  I think that's the rub many people have- only interracial confrontations cause such outrage.

As 2pac once said "and they say it's the white man I'm to fear, but it's my own kind doing all the killing here".

2pac would be considered racist by 2020 standards.

That said, since this isn't leaving JN, I guess I'll provide my meaningless opinion:

1. The Minnesota cop was 100% wrong (clearly). He's a murderer that deserves everything coming his way.

2. We can't use this as evidence that killings like this happen all the time. They just don't. Most of the time, the media reports instantly any death of a black man to a white cop. Often while jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence. Feeding this narrative that we have a massive amount of racist cops just running around gunning down every innocent black man they see.

One time an "unarmed black man" turned out to be a drugged out dude that tried to mow down cops with his car.

-------

To sum this up, I do think we have a problem. I do think we need new standards and reform of how cops are screened, trained, and how they are treated when they commit questionable (at best) killings.

No, I don't think it's as big a problem as the media (etc) portrays...and I do think it's a problem that requires people to be open to dialogue from all sides...without labeling people racist if they aren't 100% lockstep with the narrative of systemic racism and corrupt murderous/racist cops infesting every police department. That's just going to cause an us vs them mentality among all sides.

[jfkbengals]

I almost forgot to comment on the OP.

Good for Joe to use his voice.

Not sure if anyone else saw it on PFT, but his predecessor had some good words on the subject as well.

[HarleyDog]

As for some posts in here, it's important in this discussion that we don't tag a left or right view on this. If we start politicising this, it loses the integrity of the discussion and simply makes people choose sides, which is defeating the point of a unified discussion. Joe simply was stating that black americans need to be heard, and they do. As a nation, as a people, we need to fix this and become united. He may personally be ignorant of the personal experiences of racism like many of us. Doesn't mean he is wrong.

Most people want the best for one another. I know I do. I hope everyone here typing away experiences a great life. The things we are seeing is not so, but it doesnt mean it has to remain this way. We can learn and grow from this. We just have to remove the us vs. them narrative. Unless it's sports, then I say, Who Dey!

[*jason*]

(05-30-2020, 07:27 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: As for some posts in here, it's important in this discussion that we don't tag a left or right view on this. If we start politicising this, it loses the integrity of the discussion and simply makes people choose sides, which is defeating the point of a unified discussion. Joe simply was stating that black americans need to be heard, and they do. As a nation, as a people, we need to fix this and become united. He may personally be ignorant of the personal experiences of racism like many of us. Doesn't mean he is wrong.

Most people want the best for one another. I know I do. I hope everyone here typing away experiences a great life. The things we are seeing is not so, but it doesnt mean it has to remain this way. We can learn and grow from this. We just have to remove the us vs. them narrative. Unless it's sports, then I say, Who Dey!

Right on... We've done a good job of letting this thread roll 7 pages, and it hasn't shipped out to p&r.

[HarleyDog]

(05-30-2020, 07:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As 2pac once said "and they say it's the white man I'm to fear, but it's my own kind doing all the killing here".

2pac would be considered racist by 2020 standards.

That said, since this isn't leaving JN, I guess I'll provide my meaningless opinion:

1. The Minnesota cop was 100% wrong (clearly). He's a murderer that deserves everything coming his way.

2. We can't use this as evidence that killings like this happen all the time. They just don't. Most of the time, the media reports instantly any death of a black man to a white cop. Often while jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence. Feeding this narrative that we have a massive amount of racist cops just running around gunning down every innocent black man they see.

One time an "unarmed black man" turned out to be a drugged out dude that tried to mow down cops with his car.

-------

To sum this up, I do think we have a problem. I do think we need new standards and reform of how cops are screened, trained, and how they are treated when they commit questionable (at best) killings.

No, I don't think it's as big a problem as the media (etc) portrays...and I do think it's a problem that requires people to be open to dialogue from all sides...without labeling people racist if they aren't 100% lockstep with the narrative of systemic racism and corrupt murderous/racist cops infesting every police department. That's just going to cause an us vs them mentality among all sides.

My daughter makes fun of me sometimes because I'm a white, 52yr old 2pac fan. I love some of his music, but not all. She loves his music as well, but anyway,

I applaud this post. I think police deal with a lot of emotional stress from the experiences of the job. I think the support lacks the position they are in. When we talk about first responders needing love, what scene is there usually not the police there first? Rather it be an accident, murder, fire or whatever? These guys see some serious heart and brain tugging events while on the job. Yet, they are expected to come to work everyday and continue doing what they are doing. They get spit on, punched, threatened (even families threatend) etc.

Cops in my little town make about $15 an hour, but they do it for a reason other than money. Just like soldiers make dog crap money but serve. Would $50 an hr change what happened? No it wouldn't. This dude messed up big time. He took a life and should be held accountable. I think we need to focus on 3 things. Police brutality, racism and emotional health of those we ask to do those things we either fear to do, or don't want to do. Theres no doubt in my mind there are many officers walking around doing the job with ptsd. That's something that should be addressed.

There's a song by Tim McGraw that I love called Humble and kind. It would be a miracle if we, as a people were able to think this way. But we are not able, we will have another bad story, and we will be sad because we didn't make the difference when given the chance. We have the power to do so if we talk and refuse to let hate come into the discussion. 

[ezekiel23]

(05-29-2020, 05:38 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: This last case was murder but in 2019 370 whites, 235 blacks and 158 Hispanics were killed by cops. More whites are killed every year and the media doesn’t report that but they report every black killed. The media seems to want a race war because they magnify one race that’s getting killed by cops. These cops deserve to be punished harshly in this latest case but burning down building isn’t the answer.

The media has to much power.They are manipulators.They love to get things stirred up.It ups their ratings.

[samhain]

Good for Joe. I saw something saying that he's basically fearless in speaking his mind, and this points to that being correct.

While some might view this as a scenario where he should stick to sports (such a stupid thing to tell athletes with large platforms), I think it shows that he cares less for growing a brand and making money. Whether they'll say it or not in a public forum, there are plenty of people that really don't like seeing him say this sort of thing, and that's a risk for him in terms of endorsements.

He seems like a dude that genuinely wants to be a great leader and be the best person he can while doing it.

[*jason*]

(05-29-2020, 05:38 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: This last case was murder but in 2019 370 whites, 235 blacks and 158 Hispanics were killed by cops. More whites are killed every year and the media doesn’t report that but they report every black killed. The media seems to want a race war because they magnify one race that’s getting killed by cops. These cops deserve to be punished harshly in this latest case but burning down building isn’t the answer.

I'm fairly certain I didn't hear the media report 235 cases of police killing black people last year. So they don't report every black person who is killed. It's usually just the most egregious incidents. Then like clockwork someone points out that more white people are killed by police each year. It's almost like white people make up a majority of the country...

[Whatever]

(05-30-2020, 05:31 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It doesn't matter at all that black people resist more than white people. That statement ignores the history of police violence towards black people and it is the policeman's job to break that cycle, not the black people.

We live in a world where a cop can claim that he was scared and feared for his life as a reason to killing an unarmed person and then that same unarmed person is told (or rather, people who are outraged at his death are told) that if they just followed the rules and didn't resist arrest/panic, they'd still be alive.

We're literally victim blaming victims of police brutality and then wondering why people are pissed off at the police right now.

Police are paid and trained to de-escalate situations. It is not the job of the victims of police brutality to de-escalate the situation. The victims are unarmed, untrained and scared. It should be expected that they act irrationally when a gun (or taser, or whatever) is being waved in their face. 

Police have a history of violence towards blacks.  Blacks have a history of violence towards police.  It's the responsibility of both to break the cycle, because both parties are going to point at each other with the "They started it" rhetoric.  

What's the solution, then?  Should suspects just be allowed to resist as much as they want because they're scared?  Should cops just be able shoot first and ask questions later because they're scared?  

It's all of our responsibilities as citizens to not commit crimes.  If people didn't commit crimes, the cops wouldn't need to arrest them.  If the cops didn't need to arrest them, then people wouldn't be resisting arrest.  If people weren't resisting arrest, then there'd be no excessive force.  Maybe the solution is we all take responsibility for ourselves as individuals and quit blaming groups?

[Whatever]

(05-30-2020, 07:09 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Wasn't this the claim of the arresting officers, that he was resisting arrest?  Even though every witness and the body cam footage said he was not?  What you posted is exactly a part of the problem.  The disproportionate cases of resistance are because that is often what the guy is arrested for when the charges are false.  Why are so many black arrests filmed now?  One reason is brutality, the other is because the officer arrests a black guy who didn't do a damn thing with a claim that he resisted arrest, and the witnesses then show the video to prove the truth.

I used to work with a former gang member who had gotten out of prison for dealing crack and was trying to lead an honest life for his daughter.  I won't use his language, but what he told me was that if a black man gets arrested and says he didn't do anything, he's lying.  He did something.  And that's coming from a black man.  My sister was also a cop and would say the same thing.  Obviously, I don't believe no innocent black man ever gets arrested, but it's extremely rare that any person of any race just gets arrested for no reason.  I also don't think it's a coincidence that all my black and Hispanic friends who work ordinary jobs, live ordinary lives, and maybe the worst thing they do is speed, jaywalk, or litter have never been arrested in their entire lives.

Store employees called the cops on Floyd because he was intoxicated in public and tried pass a counterfeit bill.  He was not taken into custody for nothing.  

In today's day and age, anything that's remotely interesting gets recorded on cell phones.  Everyone is looking for a quick buck off a viral video.  

Floyd is certainly a case where excessive force is used without any real justification.  However, cases like this are an exception, thankfully, not the rule.

[CJD]

(05-31-2020, 01:59 AM)Whatever Wrote: Police have a history of violence towards blacks.  Blacks have a history of violence towards police.  It's the responsibility of both to break the cycle, because both parties are going to point at each other with the "They started it" rhetoric.  

What's the solution, then?  Should suspects just be allowed to resist as much as they want because they're scared?  Should cops just be able shoot first and ask questions later because they're scared?  

It's all of our responsibilities as citizens to not commit crimes.  If people didn't commit crimes, the cops wouldn't need to arrest them.  If the cops didn't need to arrest them, then people wouldn't be resisting arrest.  If people weren't resisting arrest, then there'd be no excessive force.  Maybe the solution is we all take responsibility for ourselves as individuals and quit blaming groups?

The ones with authority and power should be the ones to break the cycle. I don't think that's a controversial statement.

The black people are more likely to resist arrest because they fear they are going to be murdered by the police, which is backed by historical data. The police are the ones in control of the situation. It is their job to stop murdering black people.

Once they stop murdering black people, black people will be less likely to resist arrest and the cycle will  be broken.

If black people attempt to break the cycle by not resisting arrest and then just get murdered anyway, that does not break the cycle.

It is the police's job to keep a level head, not the victim of their brutality.

As far as not committing crimes, fine. But you have to understand the circumstances of these cases. George Floyd may have been "resisting arrest" (although even that is uncertain) but the matter of whether or not he committed a crime is still very much up for debate. As far as we know now, he was arrested because he was accused of trying to pass a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. But...maybe he got that from one of his friends or another transaction and he was not aware it was counterfeit. Having counterfeit money does not mean you made it or even knowingly have counterfeit money. But no, they immediately went to handcuffing and suffocating him. Why? 

The same goes for a variety of the other shootings that have made the news. Philando Castile did literally nothing wrong and was murdered for exercising his 2nd amendment rights. Breonna Taylor was killed by the police because they broke into her house erroneously.

I'm urging you to stop victim blaming. Hold accountable those that deserve to be held accountable. Not the victims of police brutality.

[jfkbengals]

(05-31-2020, 02:48 AM)Whatever Wrote: I used to work with a former gang member who had gotten out of prison for dealing crack and was trying to lead an honest life for his daughter.  I won't use his language, but what he told me was that if a black man gets arrested and says he didn't do anything, he's lying.  He did something.  And that's coming from a black man.  My sister was also a cop and would say the same thing.  Obviously, I don't believe no innocent black man ever gets arrested, but it's extremely rare that any person of any race just gets arrested for no reason.  I also don't think it's a coincidence that all my black and Hispanic friends who work ordinary jobs, live ordinary lives, and maybe the worst thing they do is speed, jaywalk, or litter have never been arrested in their entire lives.

Store employees called the cops on Floyd because he was intoxicated in public and tried pass a counterfeit bill.  He was not taken into custody for nothing.  

In today's day and age, anything that's remotely interesting gets recorded on cell phones.  Everyone is looking for a quick buck off a viral video.  

Floyd is certainly a case where excessive force is used without any real justification.  However, cases like this are an exception, thankfully, not the rule.

I didn't say Floyd should not have been under arrest, nor am I saying that all African American arrests are unjustified.  I said all witnesses and evidence shows he was not resisting arrest.  Resisting arrest is what the arresting officers claimed was the reason for the unjustified force, as is often the case.  It is also the reason for a ton of trumped up charges.  I have two family members who were cops, and have been friends with several over the years.  Listening to them tell stories of being on the force reveals some of the systemic problem of police discrimination.  It is the very reason one friend left the force and became a teacher.  I have also had a number of close friends over the years who are African American and have witnessed the double standard first hand myself on many occasions.  Ever driven someone home from work, and on the way been stopped and interrogated for your reason to be in a suburban neighborhood?  No speeding, no swerving, only stopped because the guy in the passenger seat is black.  Therefore we must be running drugs, we can't be telling the truth, so we have to be frisked and submit to a search of the car.  Otherwise, we face charges of interfering in police business and resisting arrest.  That's just one example.  White people don't spend much time teaching their kids what to do and how to act if they are stopped by the police.  The reason is because they generally don't have to.  Unless they are in the company of minorities, they are generally treated with respect and their rights are observed.  Minorities, on the other hand, have to teach their kids to remain calm and subdued, because their reactions could easily lead to their incarceration, injury, or death. 

[HarleyDog]

(05-31-2020, 11:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: As far as not committing crimes, fine. But you have to understand the circumstances of these cases. George Floyd may have been "resisting arrest" (although even that is uncertain) but the matter of whether or not he committed a crime is still very much up for debate. As far as we know now, he was arrested because he was accused of trying to pass a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. But...maybe he got that from one of his friends or another transaction and he was not aware it was counterfeit. Having counterfeit money does not mean you made it or even knowingly have counterfeit money. But no, they immediately went to handcuffing and suffocating him. Why? 

Good point. Didn’t even think about this possibility. I’m not even sure I would realize if I had received counterfeit money because I rarely even look at it that closely.

[jfkbengals]

(05-31-2020, 12:20 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good point. Didn’t even think about this possibility. I’m not even sure I would realize if I had received counterfeit money because I rarely even look at it that closely.

And a lot of it is really good.  I found several in my restaurant days, as there are markers you can use to verify them.  And that generally only happens for big bills.  I don't think that any of the people that passed them off to me had any responsibility.  Generally people were pretty distraught by it because they are then out 20, 50, or 100 dollars.  And it was usually people who got paid in jobs like construction where you can get paid in cash that it happens to.  A few of the people it happened to would ask me to check all of the cash they had, as they were then worried about if the rest of their money was no good.  Smaller bills are almost never checked, which is why those denominations are counterfeighted more than bigger bills.  I know we had plenty of those come through, because the bank would call whenever any were found in a deposit.

[Whatever]

(05-31-2020, 11:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The ones with authority and power should be the ones to break the cycle. I don't think that's a controversial statement.

The black people are more likely to resist arrest because they fear they are going to be murdered by the police, which is backed by historical data. The police are the ones in control of the situation. It is their job to stop murdering black people.

Once they stop murdering black people, black people will be less likely to resist arrest and the cycle will  be broken.

If black people attempt to break the cycle by not resisting arrest and then just get murdered anyway, that does not break the cycle.

It is the police's job to keep a level head, not the victim of their brutality.

As far as not committing crimes, fine. But you have to understand the circumstances of these cases. George Floyd may have been "resisting arrest" (although even that is uncertain) but the matter of whether or not he committed a crime is still very much up for debate. As far as we know now, he was arrested because he was accused of trying to pass a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. But...maybe he got that from one of his friends or another transaction and he was not aware it was counterfeit. Having counterfeit money does not mean you made it or even knowingly have counterfeit money. But no, they immediately went to handcuffing and suffocating him. Why? 

The same goes for a variety of the other shootings that have made the news. Philando Castile did literally nothing wrong and was murdered for exercising his 2nd amendment rights. Breonna Taylor was killed by the police because they broke into her house erroneously.

I'm urging you to stop victim blaming. Hold accountable those that deserve to be held accountable. Not the victims of police brutality.

Police Officers are also much more likely to murdered by African American suspects.  That's also a historical fact that you don't seem willing to acknowledge.  

So, your solution is to basically say African Americans can resist arrest as much as they want.  Do you even feel that they should be charged with resisting arrest?  It is a crime, you know.  Is being scared a free excuse to commit crimes?

Furthermore, a point I've made this entire thread is that when suspects resist arrest, they are much more likely to be slain being taken into custody.  Nothing good is going to come out of resisting arrest.  If you get taken down on concrete, you can crack your head and die.  If a cop thinks you're going for a weapon, he can shoot you.  Best case scenario, they take you in still in one piece and you get extra charges.  It's the stupidest humanly possible thing you can do in those circumstances.  

You do not have your facts straight in the Floyd case.  He was reported by the store clerks for both passing a counterfeit $20 and public intoxication.  He was not immediately handcuffed and thrown to the ground, either.  Security footage shows that they talked to Floyd at his vehicle.  An officer appears to check his wallet, then he is handcuffed.  They then take him over to the wall of the building where the security camera was mounted, an officer speaks with him and helps him get to his feet.  They then escort him across the intersection towards the car that's going to take him away and he appears to half ass try to pull away from the officers and stumbles and falls in front of a car that blocks that camera's view of him and the cops pile on from there.  Public intoxication is pretty easy to tell.  Since they can easily arrest him with cause for public intoxication, they can sort out the counterfeit bills down at the station.  Also, it depends on the state as to whether simply using counterfeit bills is a crime or not.  In some states, the law states that you have to know it was counterfeit and be using it in an attempt to defraud.  In others, just using it is a crime, regardless of knowledge or intent.

Philandro Castille was driving while using marijuana with his girlfriend and her 5 year old daughter in the car.  He also failed to inform the officer that he had a licence for his firearm, which you are required to do when stopped by an officer.  Even his girlfriend's testimony states that he only told the officer that he had a firearm in the car, not that he was licensed.  He also matched the description of a suspect in a nearby robbery and didn't stop reaching for items when the officer instructed him repeatedly not to.  Breonna Taylor was killed in a firefight when police served a no-knock warrant on her residence after suspects in a drug arrest told police that she was receiving drugs at her residence as part of a drug smuggling ring and her boyfriend opened fire on police. You either don't do your research or have a very loose definition of "didn't do anything wrong."

You're right.  We should hold the perpetrators responsible.  Chauvin should go to jail.  I have a coworker who had his truck stolen when he left it unlocked and still running in a gas station parking lot when he went in to get his morning coffee.  Should the thief be prosecuted?  Absolutely.  Did my coworker put himself in a situation where there was a good chance his truck would be stolen?  Absolutely.  When you put yourself in bad situations, bad things are going to happen to you.  It's not right or fair, but it's reality.  You're always better off making good decisions and exercising reasonable precautions to keep yourself from becoming a victim than trying to seek justice after you've been victimized.  Control the things you can control, then try to change the system.  

[Chezaugie]

(05-31-2020, 02:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: Police Officers are also much more likely to murdered by African American suspects.  That's also a historical fact that you don't seem willing to acknowledge.  

Absolutely incorrect. It is these type of inaccurate "facts" that fuel the fire of racial divide.

"There were 511 officers killed in felonious incidents and 540 offenders from 2004 to 2013, according to FBI reports. Among the total offenders, 52 percent were white, and 43 percent were black."

[Whatever]

(05-31-2020, 12:04 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I didn't say Floyd should not have been under arrest, nor am I saying that all African American arrests are unjustified.  I said all witnesses and evidence shows he was not resisting arrest.  Resisting arrest is what the arresting officers claimed was the reason for the unjustified force, as is often the case.  It is also the reason for a ton of trumped up charges.  I have two family members who were cops, and have been friends with several over the years.  Listening to them tell stories of being on the force reveals some of the systemic problem of police discrimination.  It is the very reason one friend left the force and became a teacher.  I have also had a number of close friends over the years who are African American and have witnessed the double standard first hand myself on many occasions.  Ever driven someone home from work, and on the way been stopped and interrogated for your reason to be in a suburban neighborhood?  No speeding, no swerving, only stopped because the guy in the passenger seat is black.  Therefore we must be running drugs, we can't be telling the truth, so we have to be frisked and submit to a search of the car.  Otherwise, we face charges of interfering in police business and resisting arrest.  That's just one example.  White people don't spend much time teaching their kids what to do and how to act if they are stopped by the police.  The reason is because they generally don't have to.  Unless they are in the company of minorities, they are generally treated with respect and their rights are observed.  Minorities, on the other hand, have to teach their kids to remain calm and subdued, because their reactions could easily lead to their incarceration, injury, or death. 

Is every charge of resisting arrest justified?  No.  Does the fact that every charge of resisting arrest isn't warranted mean that no charge of resisting arrest is warranted?  No.  Let's look at the statistics from SF that I posted earlier.  African Americans accounted for 6% of the population, but 45% of resisting arrest charges in misdemeanor cases.  In order for the resisting arrest rate for African Americans to be in line with their population, only 13% of those cases could be legitimate.  The other 87% were just made up.  Does anybody really believe that only one in ten cases of resisting arrest involving African American suspects is legitimate?  I hope not.  Even if half of those cases are made up BS, their rate of resisting arrest is still almost four times their population percentage.

Dude, people of all races get stopped for stuff they consider to be BS.  When I was living in a primarily black neighborhood, I got stopped and my truck searched because I was doing 38 in a 35.  I've seen firsthand a cop pull his weapon on a 40 something white woman who had his back turned to him in a Chipotle in the Ohio State campus area.  I used to have a one bedroom apartment that was technically in Upper Arlington(wealthy section of Columbus) and I would get stopped in my old Crown Vic with the caved in door and peeling paint all the time.  I got pulled over for doing 50 in a 45 one night a few months back.  Cops are going to stop you if you look out of place or if you or your vehicle matches the description of a suspect.  When I got pulled over in the black neighborhood, I had started renting space in a house with a coworker and he had told me there were drug houses in the area.  The cops see a white male they don't know rolling through and they're going to stop me and check it out.  That lady the cop pulled the gun on matched the description of a woman who was just involved in a bank robbery nearby.  When I would get stopped in my old beater car I looked massively out of place driving by a bunch of houses with Mercedes and BMW's in the garage.  When I got stopped a few months back, the cop went to my passenger side window and I could tell he had his hand on his holster.  He asked for my license, which I already had out and asked if I knew why he stopped me.  I told him because I was doing 50 in a 45.  He handed back my license, never asked for my registration and let me off with a warning.  It was pretty obvious he pulled me over because my car matched the description of a suspect vehicle and something was up because of just how hurried he acted through the whole thing.  

Both of my parents and my Grandfather had talks with me about dealing with police when I got my learners permit.  Whether you're black, white, Hispanic, Asian, whatever, if you get loud with a cop, you're headed for trouble.  Many African Americans have a tendency to get loud and defiant in an attempt to assert dominance in confrontations.  White people are generally more willing to show deference to authority figures, hence parents not being as worried about what happens when they get stopped.  

[Chezaugie]

(05-31-2020, 04:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: Is every charge of resisting arrest justified?  No.  Does the fact that every charge of resisting arrest isn't warranted mean that no charge of resisting arrest is warranted?  No.  Let's look at the statistics from SF that I posted earlier.  African Americans accounted for 6% of the population, but 45% of resisting arrest charges in misdemeanor cases.  In order for the resisting arrest rate for African Americans to be in line with their population, only 13% of those cases could be legitimate.  The other 87% were just made up.  Does anybody really believe that only one in ten cases of resisting arrest involving African American suspects is legitimate?  I hope not.  Even if half of those cases are made up BS, their rate of resisting arrest is still almost four times their population percentage.

Again, you cherry pick your justifications by using a limited data base of San Fransisco statistics.
However, in a recent study on the subject, "Ultimately, comparing the two scales, officers tended to use more force against black subjects even though they presented less resistance than white subjects."

[GreenCornBengal]

Hey, can someone tell me what white dudes like me are supposed to do to remedy this situation? I’m not really sure what the end goal even is... I understand that there IS an issue, but I don’t understand what I can do to help... I’m not trying to be snarky, I just literally have 0 clue what I’m supposed to do to help because as an average citizen I have 0 power to help the situation.

Are we asking for more swift action against the scumbag cop? Behead him in public? Tar and feather him in front of a crowd?

Do we need to eliminate white cops from existence and leave policing to everyone else? At least then we could make a judgement on if it’s racially charged or just circumstantial.

I’m struggling to know what we can tangibly do to help here. There are no laws I can vote on and no actions I can personally take to help is how I feel... There will always be evil souls out there doing evil things, and I’m just confused on how me myself can help. Does anyone have an answer to this? I’m really struggling over here trying to find how I can make a positive impact other than tweets like Joe.... which are debate-ably unimpactful anyways..

[Chezaugie]

(05-31-2020, 04:53 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Hey, can someone tell me what white dudes like me are supposed to do to remedy this situation? I’m not really sure what the end goal even is... I understand that there IS an issue, but I don’t understand what I can do to help... I’m not trying to be snarky, I just literally have 0 clue what I’m supposed to do to help because as an average citizen I have 0 power to help the situation.

Are we asking for more swift action against the scumbag cop? Behead him in public? Tar and feather him in front of a crowd?

Do we need to eliminate white cops from existence and leave policing to everyone else? At least then we could make a judgement on if it’s racially charged or just circumstantial.

I’m struggling to know what we can tangibly do to help here. There are no laws I can vote on and no actions I can personally take to help is how I feel... There will always be evil souls out there doing evil things, and I’m just confused on how me myself can help. Does anyone have an answer to this? I’m really struggling over here trying to find how I can make a positive impact other than tweets like Joe.... which are debate-ably unimpactful anyways..

I applaud your post.


In my opinion you just made a positive impact. I believe in searching ,questioning, being honest with ourselves & reevaluating our motives, beliefs, stereotypes is a good start. People are not innately evil. The vast majority of people are good but, we can always strive to do better.

I am as about as “white bread” as you can get and have many close white friends who are in law enforcement (one of whom was killed in action). Most people's perspectives, as do mine, come from upbringing, environment, socioeconomic status, education, social groups, etc. It is important for me to at least try and understand everyone's perspectives with respect to their opinions. Does that mean I have to visit a Mosque to understand Muslims or join the NAACP to get some perspective on African Americans? No. Do I sometimes get overcome by anger and bigoted thoughts? Yes. Do I have illusions I will ever make a big difference? No.

All I can do is perhaps just listen and try to put myself in someone elses shoes. At the end of day all I can do is look in the mirror and ask myself if I did the right things today and was I kind to everyone I met. Most all world religions have one common thread, “Compassion—the natural capacity of the human heart to feel concern for and connection with another being”

And, as the wise sage Mickey Mouse once said, “Think twice, before speaking once.”