Article about the defense

[SunsetBengal]

While the title is pure clickbait, the article actually projects positively about the Bengal defense going forward.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/touchdown-wire-ranks-bengals-as-league-s-worst-defense/ar-BB14NOOt?ocid=msedgdhp

Quote:The Cincinnati Bengals improved their defense this offseason. While they lost a few linebackers and a few cornerbacks, most would presume that the unit should be better in 2020.

That’s an odd claim after the Bengals turned it up defensively to end 2019. That said, Football Outsiders ranked the Bengals’ 2019 defense 28th-best in the league, mostly due to a few horrific weeks to kick off the season.

24th in opponent’s points per game, the Bengals lost some early-season games because they just couldn’t contain their opponent on the ground.

The bulk of the issues came from running backs or mobile quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson. Last season, the Bengals gave up the most rushing yards in the league, nearing 3,000 yards by opponents on the ground.

That’s why they brought in defensive tackle D.J. Reader. It was a clear issue that they went out and solved. With Reader’s addition, the last major hole was at linebacker, a position they also filled with the drafting of Wyoming LB Logan Wilson.

That hasn’t kept most that cover the spot pleased with the defense though as Touchdown Wire’s Doug Farrar pegged them as the worst unit in the league. Here’s his opinion on how the Bengals will fare this coming season.

The Bengals went all-out in the offseason to try and improve a defense that started and finished the season out of sorts. They signed former Texans defensive tackle D.J. Reader to pair with Geno Atkins, and signed Vikings reclamation cornerbacks Trae Waynes and Mackensie Alexander. In the draft, they tried to solve their obvious linebacker problems with the selections of Wyoming’s Logan Wilson and Appalachian State’s Akeem Davis-Gaither. But there isn’t enough to improve upon a group that posted just 31 sacks last season (though Reader is an underrated interior pass-rusher), and under defensive coordinator Lou Anarumo in 2019, this defense often didn’t look as if it knew what it was supposed to be doing.

To call an opinion wrong isn’t quite logical: anyone can have one. You can make all the points you want, but the Bengals were able to improve their major flaws this offseason and should do well with Anarumo who will get a second year with Zac Taylor.

Things are trending up in Cincinnati, and it’d be shocking to see them end the 2020 season with the league’s worst defense.

[*SHRacerX*]

Funny they didn't even mention Bynes or Bell.

While I see Waynes and Alexander as near equals of who they replaced, I think Bynes and Bell will be significant upgrades. Reader, rightfully, gets the most publicity as he is likely to have the greatest overall impact on the defense.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-30-2020, 11:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Funny they didn't even mention Bynes or Bell.

While I see Waynes and Alexander as near equals of who they replaced, I think Bynes and Bell will be significant upgrades.   Reader, rightfully,  gets the most publicity as he is likely to have the greatest overall impact on the defense.

Waynes and Kirkpatrick is kind of a push, as their stats are pretty much on par for games played.  I'd say that the advantage on health/availability goes to Waynes.

Now, I see Alexander as upgrade to Dennard.  Alexander is a much more aggressive style of defender.  In 55 games that he's played in, Alexander has 2 INTs, 21 PDs, 9 TFL, and 8 QB hits, meaning that he's an effective blitzer.  Dennard played in 77 games, has logged 3 INTs, 22 PDs, but only 5 TFL, and 5 QB hits.

I really feel like Alexander and Von Bell will make a noticeable difference in how the Bengals cover the middle of the field and underneath routes that they have been burned on so badly the past few years.

[CJD]

How are Waynes and Alexander reclamation projects? They were highly sought after free agents...

Does he know what a reclamation project is?

[bengals1969]

I think there will be a season, with butts in the seats, to view the Bengals much improved team. The upgrades start with getting guys who are professionals going about their business Monday-Saturday. It seems from coach speak that was a serious deficiency last season. Guys weren't prepared to play. Reader and Bell are major upgrades to the 15 yards past the line of scrimmage, a place where the Bengals defense has failed for years. Beyond this, the Bengals front office thought free agency carefully and didn't flail around just getting guys. That's also encouraging about the cohesiveness of the team in 2020.

[Jason_NC]

(05-30-2020, 11:42 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Waynes and Kirkpatrick is kind of a push, as their stats are pretty much on par for games played.  I'd say that the advantage on health/availability goes to Waynes.

Now, I see Alexander as upgrade to Dennard.  Alexander is a much more aggressive style of defender.  In 55 games that he's played in, Alexander has 2 INTs, 21 PDs, 9 TFL, and 8 QB hits, meaning that he's an effective blitzer.  Dennard played in 77 games, has logged 3 INTs, 22 PDs, but only 5 TFL, and 5 QB hits.

I really feel like Alexander and Von Bell will make a noticeable difference in how the Bengals cover the middle of the field and underneath routes that they have been burned on so badly the past few years.

I disagree.  In pass coverage their stats are similar, but Waynes has better recovery speed and is a MUCH better tackler.

[fredtoast]

(05-30-2020, 11:44 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: How are Waynes and Alexander reclamation projects? They were highly sought after free agents...

Does he know what a reclamation project is?

Waynes was the 11th pick in the 2015 draft, but he has not played that well at all.  We grossly overpaid for him.  He was projected at a $8-$10 million CB, not $14 million.

Alexander was a mid-tier free agent.  That is why we giot him for only $4 million.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 10:43 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: While the title is pure clickbait, the article actually projects positively about the Bengal defense going forward.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/touchdown-wire-ranks-bengals-as-league-s-worst-defense/ar-BB14NOOt?ocid=msedgdhp

With Reader, Bell, Waynes, Alexander, Bynes, Wilson, ADG, Bailey added instead of the Kirkpatrick/Vigil crowd we should be
massively improved on Defense. Reader frees up Geno and the boys along with the Linebackers to make plays. We brought in
tacklers and proven players and captains. As much as I love Burrow I think the Defense makes the biggest jump this year.

[CJD]

(05-30-2020, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Waynes was the 11th pick in the 2015 draft, but he has not played that well at all.  We grossly overpaid for him.  He was projected at a $8-$10 million CB, not $14 million.

Alexander was a mid-tier free agent.  That is why we giot him for only $4 million.  

Do you know what a reclamation project is?

I'll give you a hint.

They don't get paid 8 to 10 million dollars per year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 02:02 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Do you know what a reclamation project is?

I'll give you a hint.

They don't get paid 8 to 10 million dollars per year.

And Waynes is in his prime. Lets hope it happens with us. Evidently the coaches see something in him.

He wasn't the 11th overall pick for nothing and he can tackle ten times as good as Kirkpatrick.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-30-2020, 02:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And Waynes is in his prime. Lets hope it happens with us. Evidently the coaches see something in him.

He wasn't the 11th overall pick for nothing and he can tackle ten times as good as Kirkpatrick.

Age makes a leveraging factor.  Waynes will be 28 this season, while Kirkpatrick will turn 31.  Waynes has played in 74 games in 5 seasons, Kirkpatrick has played in 99 games over 8 seasons.  As I remember, Kirkpatrick began his career often injured, and only being able to play 6 games last season leads me to think that the team may have felt as Kirkpatrick's best years were behind him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 02:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Age makes a leveraging factor.  Waynes will be 28 this season, while Kirkpatrick will turn 31.  Waynes has played in 74 games in 5 seasons, Kirkpatrick has played in 99 games over 8 seasons.  As I remember, Kirkpatrick began his career often injured, and only being able to play 6 games last season leads me to think that the team may have felt as Kirkpatrick's best years were behind him.

I think Kirkpatrick had one good year from what I remember....

Think we are movin' on up.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Bengals are a historically bad franchise. It’s not like good free agents want to come here at there market price to play in the past. They HAD to overpay for these players. Otherwise we would stay terrible.

And Wayne’s is an upgrade to Dre. His tackling and run defense are both much better. That and him still being young were the reasons why the bengals went with Trae and not anyone else older.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-30-2020, 01:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: With Reader, Bell, Waynes, Alexander, Bynes, Wilson, ADG, Bailey added instead of the Kirkpatrick/Vigil crowd we should be
massively improved on Defense. Reader frees up Geno and the boys along with the Linebackers to make plays. We brought in
tacklers and proven players and captains. As much as I love Burrow I think the Defense makes the biggest jump this year.

Agree

I believe our D will be a much improved. I feel we can come in middle of the pack this season. And when you've been the worst in the league more or less for like 3 years running making it to 15th or whatever is a big jump. And I believe we will.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-30-2020, 11:42 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Waynes and Kirkpatrick is kind of a push, as their stats are pretty much on par for games played.  I'd say that the advantage on health/availability goes to Waynes.

Now, I see Alexander as upgrade to Dennard.  Alexander is a much more aggressive style of defender.  In 55 games that he's played in, Alexander has 2 INTs, 21 PDs, 9 TFL, and 8 QB hits, meaning that he's an effective blitzer.  Dennard played in 77 games, has logged 3 INTs, 22 PDs, but only 5 TFL, and 5 QB hits.

I really feel like Alexander and Von Bell will make a noticeable difference in how the Bengals cover the middle of the field and underneath routes that they have been burned on so badly the past few years.

I have to agree with the guy who quoted you a couple posts below this one. Yes they're a push in a couple areas but Kirkpatrick just plain sucked at tackling ! And that gives Waynes a pretty big edge.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 02:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree

I believe our D will be a much improved. I feel we can come in middle of the pack this season. And when you've been the worst in the league more or less for like 3 years running making it to 15th or whatever is a big jump. And I believe we will.

I made the prediction of top ten on Defense in the predictions thread.

Lets hope that comes true. The Defense had terrible Linebackers and Kirkpatrick back there not wanting to tackle.

This makes an entire Defense look worse than it actually is and is unfair to the rest.

Thank God the coaches saw it and were able to address it. Haven't seen us go this all out to improve ever in FA.

Let alone drafting Wilson, ADG and Bailey. All of whom I am very high on. Loved Pratt last Draft.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

The article is superficial. Bell and Bynes are not even mentioned. And Waynes & Alexander are not reclaimation projects. That's absurd.

Now, are they huge upgrades over Dre & Dennard? Probably not in pass coverage. But in terms of run defense, yes. Alexander did not miss a tackle ALL YEAR. Not bad for a reclaimation project!

Our run D was abyssmal last year. And that (and the LBs) was the focal point. Alexander, Waynes, Bell, Bynes, and Reader are all significant upgrades in terms of run D. All started on PO teams (though Bynes for only half the year). Run D should be better.

The other thing the article misses is the effect bad run D has on sacks. Hard to get there on 2nd & 3 or 3rd & 1. Dunlap rated out at over 89 on PFF. Hubbard was top 10 in the league in pass rush win rate/pressures (I forget the name of the stat). And Lawson has been good in that regard as well, when healthy. Pass rush should be fine if the run D improves.

The other problems were the DBs all regressed horribly under Lou. Well, WJ3, Bates, & Williams did. Dre & Dennard were fine & Phillips excellent before he got hurt.

WJ3 was a top 10 guy in man last year. But we only played man 33 percent of the time. Partially because the run D was so bad we had more guys committed forward (5 lineman). Partially because the LBs couldn't cover. But that SHOULD improve.

Hopefully we see more 2nd and long. More man coverage (Waynes is better in man as well). More 3rd and long. Better scheming from Lou. More sacks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 06:28 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The article is superficial. Bell and Bynes are not even mentioned. And Waynes & Alexander are not reclaimation projects. That's absurd.

Now, are they huge upgrades over Dre & Dennard? Probably not in pass coverage. But in terms of run defense, yes. Alexander did not miss a tackle ALL YEAR. Not bad for a reclaimation project!

Our run D was abyssmal last year. And that (and the LBs) was the focal point. Alexander, Waynes, Bell, Bynes, and Reader are all significant upgrades in terms of run D. All started on PO teams (though Bynes for only half the year). Run D should be better.

The other thing the article misses is the effect bad run D has on sacks. Hard to get there on 2nd & 3 or 3rd & 1. Dunlap rated out at over 89 on PFF. Hubbard was top 10 in the league in pass rush win rate/pressures (I forget the name of the stat). And Lawson has been good in that regard as well, when healthy. Pass rush should be fine if the run D improves.

The other problems were the DBs all regressed horribly under Lou. Well, WJ3, Bates, & Williams did. Dre & Dennard were fine & Phillips excellent before he got hurt.

WJ3 was a top 10 guy in man last year. But we only played man 33 percent of the time. Partially because the run D was so bad we had more guys committed forward (5 lineman). Partially because the LBs couldn't cover. But that SHOULD improve.

Hopefully we see more 2nd and long. More man coverage (Waynes is better in man as well). More 3rd and long. Better scheming from Lou. More sacks.

Nice post IC85. Have to stop the run to get Offenses into 3rd and long to get those sacks no doubt.

[JSR18]

(05-30-2020, 02:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree

I believe our D will be a much improved. I feel we can come in middle of the pack this season. And when you've been the worst in the league more or less for like 3 years running making it to 15th or whatever is a big jump. And I believe we will.

I believe they will also. TBS, I also see the offense jumping between 12-15. Which should put us at #2 in our division...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Joelist]

Let's remember that while Waynes and Alexander are roughly par in pass defense with who they replaced in run defense and especially tackling they are MAJOR upgrades. So is Vonn Bell and yes so is Bynes. The recurring theme of the defensive moves this offseason was fixing the poor tackling, which was at the root of the issues against both the run and mobile QBs - more than one analyst noted that looking at game tapes you saw that a lot of the time players were not necessarily out of position but just failed to actually execute the tackle.