Minority Hiring Incentive

[GreenCornBengal]

https://www.nfl.com/news/owners-to-vote-on-resolution-to-incentivize-minority-hc-gm-hires

Saw this article today. League wants more black coaches and GMs... is this the right way? Below is from the article.



“Clearly we are not where we want to be on this level," he said. "It's clear we need to change. We have already begun discussing those changes, what stages we can take next to determine better outcomes."

The call to action grew even louder after only one of the five coaching vacancies during the offseason was filled by a person of color, continuing a trend in which just three of the past 20 openings have gone to a minority. Now in perhaps its most aggressive and controversial attempt to address the issue, the league will present a pair of resolutions this coming Tuesday during the owners' virtual meeting that it hopes will level the playing field.

If a team hires a minority head coach, that team, in the draft preceding the coach's second season, would move up six spots from where it is slotted to pick in the third round. A team would jump 10 spots under the same scenario for hiring a person of color as its primary football executive, a position more commonly known as general manager.

If a team were to fill both positions with diverse candidates in the same year, that club could jump 16 spots -- six for the coach, 10 for the GM -- and potentially move from the top of the third round to the middle of the second round. Another incentive: a team's fourth-round pick would climb five spots in the draft preceding the coach's or GM's third year if he is still with the team. That is considered significant because Steve Wilks and Vance Joseph, two of the four African-American head coaches hired since 2017, were fired after one and two seasons, respectively.



Can the Bengals get an additional first round pick for sticking with Marvin for so long??

[Toy Cannon]

I would give an extra comp pick to any team that has a coach come out of the closet during the team's bye week.

[CKwi88]

Well meant no doubt, but wouldn't be a smart move. It would unfortunately cheapen the accomplishments of future minority head coaches and executives. I can just imagine the trolling about how "they only got hired/retained for draft position!!!!!!1!!!!!"

It is hard to deny that there is a distinct lack of opportunity for minority candidates. It's just as hard to prove that said lack of opportunity afforded to minorities is because of their race, and such is the way of institutional racism. It boils down to creating opportunity. Rather than artificially creating opportunity through incentives like this, perhaps post-career educational programs to help former players transition into coaching might be a better idea. Kinda like a "university" that could have a job placement/referral program to give opportunities through partnerships with collegiate programs.

Either way, I fear it will be a long time before there is a semblance of equal opportunity for minorities in the NFL, be it coordinators, head coaches, GMs or owners.

[HarleyDog]

This is kinda ridiculous. If I owned an NFL team I would put the best mind at the position because I want to win. I don't care what color or even gender he/she is? It's all about winning.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-16-2020, 11:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: This is kinda ridiculous. If I owned an NFL team I would put the best mind at the position because I want to win. I don't care what color or even gender he/she is? It's all about winning.

Exactly how I feel about the matter. Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Martian, I don’t give a crap what you are just get me the wins and the Super Bowl...

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(05-17-2020, 02:31 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Exactly how I feel about the matter. Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Martian, I don’t give a crap what you are just get me the wins and the Super Bowl...

Amen.

I’m neutral as well on this issue but if the NFL wants a more diverse coaching and ownership population using the draft is not the right way to go about it. The draft order should be about the previous season’s record and nothing else.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-17-2020, 02:11 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Amen.

I’m neutral as well on this issue but if the NFL wants a more diverse coaching and ownership population using the draft is not the right way to go about it. The draft order should be about the previous season’s record and nothing else.

Totally agree. I’m not involved with the NFL other than being a fan so it’s difficult for me to say how fair it is. I’d like to believe it’s more fair than it probably is, but it’s also easy to not think about it since we were one of the first franchises to have a black head coach.

One thing that really pissed me off when reading about this (and I don’t remember where I read this) but the Bengals were included in teams that didn’t hire a black coach. The Bengals were then criticized for hiring Zac because of his lack of experience compared to the black candidates out there. Tried to make us sound racist and it offended the hell out of me. The Bengals have been very fair from my vantage point. Trying to slander us like that still drives me mad.

Trying to give teams an advantage in the draft or on the field is a shame in my opinion. I really hope this doesn’t end up happening.

[CKwi88]

(05-17-2020, 04:37 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Totally agree. I’m not involved with the NFL other than being a fan so it’s difficult for me to say how fair it is. I’d like to believe it’s more fair than it probably is, but it’s also easy to not think about it since we were one of the first franchises to have a black head coach.

There are 4 coaches that are minorities (Tomlin, Flores, Lynn and Rivera.), 2 OCs that are minorities (Bienemy and Leftwich) and a lone GM (Grier). DCs are a more representative group with 10. All this along with having one owner (Khan) hardly give me faith that it's a very fair process. To be fair, this isn't a 2020 issue. This is an issue that goes back to the very inception of professional football, and has been prevalent in society for much much longer. There are plenty of people that can remember when football was truly integrated in 1962 (I'm 100% positive that George Preston Marshal was just putting the Redskins in the best position to get wins and a championship). There are studies less than a decade old that shows how black players are not afforded equal opportunity/held to a different standard. It's a generational issue that will, to the detriment of all those who have lived and continue to live through it, take generations to rectify. 

But installing minorities at the top and hoping that trickles down into the other positions works about as well as other theories that use the words "trickle down". That's why I'd say focus on getting ex-players (70% of NFL players are minorities) that are interested in coaching/executive jobs into entry-level positions where their potential can (hopefully) flourish. Once you have more minority assistant coaches, then you will hopefully have more position coaches, and then coordinators, then head coaches etc. The NFL needs to build from the ground up rather than the top down. 

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-17-2020, 09:28 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: There are 4 coaches that are minorities (Tomlin, Flores, Lynn and Rivera.), 2 OCs that are minorities (Bienemy and Leftwich) and a lone GM (Grier). DCs are a more representative group with 10. All this along with having one owner (Khan) hardly give me faith that it's a very fair process. To be fair, this isn't a 2020 issue. This is an issue that goes back to the very inception of professional football, and has been prevalent in society for much much longer. There are plenty of people that can remember when football was truly integrated in 1962 (I'm 100% positive that George Preston Marshal was just putting the Redskins in the best position to get wins and a championship). There are studies less than a decade old that shows how black players are not afforded equal opportunity/held to a different standard. It's a generational issue that will, to the detriment of all those who have lived and continue to live through it, take generations to rectify. 

But installing minorities at the top and hoping that trickles down into the other positions works about as well as other theories that use the words "trickle down". That's why I'd say focus on getting ex-players (70% of NFL players are minorities) that are interested in coaching/executive jobs into entry-level positions where their potential can (hopefully) flourish. Once you have more minority assistant coaches, then you will hopefully have more position coaches, and then coordinators, then head coaches etc. The NFL needs to build from the ground up rather than the top down. 

It’s interesting, I assumed there were more black OCs and DCs then there are. Guess I just don’t notice those things.

I think your approach is much more reasonable and accomplishes what is needed without hurting the integrity of the game. It’s weird to think that all of the old owners are so racially driven they won’t hire the black candidate, but I guess that is part of what’s happening. It’s a shame.

[fredtoast]

I don't think any black coach wants teams to get extra picks for hiring minorities.  All it does is diminish their accomplishment of getting a coaching position.  As soon as they walk in the building players and other coaches would be wondering if he got hired because of the draft pick instead of his coaching ability.

There are lots of black assistant coaches in the NFL.  They just have problems breaking through to the coordinator and head coaching positions.

I like the move they made to change the rule that teams could block assistants from applying for coordinator positions.  I think this may lead to more minorities moving up quicker.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-20-2020, 05:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think any black coach wants teams to get extra picks for hiring minorities. All it does is diminish their accomplishment of getting a coaching position. As soon as they walk in the build players and other coaches would be wondering if he got hire because of the draft pick instead of his coaching ability.

There are lots of black assistant coaches in the NFL. They just have problems breaking through to the coordinator and head coaching positions.

I like the move they made to change the rule that teams could block assistants from applying for coordinator positions. I think this may lead to more minorities moving up quicker.

I agree, completely diminishes all that that individual has worked for. There have been so many great minority coaches over the years that it’s surprising to me it is still an issue in the first place. Hopefully this will somewhat resolve itself and this won’t end up being a thing. Thankfully for now it’s been tabled for a bit.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(05-17-2020, 09:28 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: There are 4 coaches that are minorities (Tomlin, Flores, Lynn and Rivera.), 2 OCs that are minorities (Bienemy and Leftwich) and a lone GM (Grier). DCs are a more representative group with 10. All this along with having one owner (Khan) hardly give me faith that it's a very fair process. To be fair, this isn't a 2020 issue. This is an issue that goes back to the very inception of professional football, and has been prevalent in society for much much longer. There are plenty of people that can remember when football was truly integrated in 1962 (I'm 100% positive that George Preston Marshal was just putting the Redskins in the best position to get wins and a championship). There are studies less than a decade old that shows how black players are not afforded equal opportunity/held to a different standard. It's a generational issue that will, to the detriment of all those who have lived and continue to live through it, take generations to rectify. 

But installing minorities at the top and hoping that trickles down into the other positions works about as well as other theories that use the words "trickle down". That's why I'd say focus on getting ex-players (70% of NFL players are minorities) that are interested in coaching/executive jobs into entry-level positions where their potential can (hopefully) flourish. Once you have more minority assistant coaches, then you will hopefully have more position coaches, and then coordinators, then head coaches etc. The NFL needs to build from the ground up rather than the top down. 

I like your from the ground up approach. I wonder does anyone know the statistics for minorities in entry level positions? If it's low why? Are minorities simply not even trying to get a start because they don't see fair opportunity? Or are there lots of minorities trying to get entry level positions and just aren't being hired?

[BmorePat87]

(05-17-2020, 09:28 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: There are 4 coaches that are minorities (Tomlin, Flores, Lynn and Rivera.), 2 OCs that are minorities (Bienemy and Leftwich) and a lone GM (Grier). DCs are a more representative group with 10. All this along with having one owner (Khan) hardly give me faith that it's a very fair process. To be fair, this isn't a 2020 issue. This is an issue that goes back to the very inception of professional football, and has been prevalent in society for much much longer. There are plenty of people that can remember when football was truly integrated in 1962 (I'm 100% positive that George Preston Marshal was just putting the Redskins in the best position to get wins and a championship). There are studies less than a decade old that shows how black players are not afforded equal opportunity/held to a different standard. It's a generational issue that will, to the detriment of all those who have lived and continue to live through it, take generations to rectify. 

But installing minorities at the top and hoping that trickles down into the other positions works about as well as other theories that use the words "trickle down". That's why I'd say focus on getting ex-players (70% of NFL players are minorities) that are interested in coaching/executive jobs into entry-level positions where their potential can (hopefully) flourish. Once you have more minority assistant coaches, then you will hopefully have more position coaches, and then coordinators, then head coaches etc. The NFL needs to build from the ground up rather than the top down. 

I think particularly if you look at ownership, you see this. How many teams have had the same family ownership since the 20's, 40's, or 60's? Very few teams have had more than 1 or 2 owners. Like you said, things trickle down, so you need to see more minority ownership.

You need to look at coaching at the college level too, since many get started there.

[magikod]

(05-16-2020, 11:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: This is kinda ridiculous. If I owned an NFL team I would put the best mind at the position because I want to win. I don't care what color or even gender  he/she is? It's all about winning.

Amen. Give the job to the best person period.

[EatonFan]

Just give the job to the best quality candidate. This is the ultimate goal of equality. If it's 100% Asian ... So Be It.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(06-16-2020, 02:07 AM)EatonFan Wrote: Just give the job to the best quality candidate.  This is the ultimate goal of equality.  If it's 100% Asian ... So Be It.

Exactly.  If I were an NFL rookie safety or cornerback five years from now and I was going to a team where the defensive backs coach was Patrick Chung I would count myself very fortunate; same with Norm Chow if I were an offensive player.  Isn't Hines Ward part Korean?  Who wouldn't want to learn from him?  The great Baltimore safety Will Demps is part Korean and Tedy Bruschi's mother is Filipina.  Those guys would be amazing coaches.

Asians aside, to me it all comes down to "cred."  I think someone like Ozzie Newsome is a prototype for the player turned executive just like Tony Dungy and Art Shell were prototype players turned coach.  Ozzie, Tony, and Art were great players.  This is why they are respected as coaches and executives.