Opting Out?

[bengals1969]

(07-28-2020, 11:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hydroxychloroquine isn’t indicated for Covid 19 because it isn’t proven to help. There is no evidence to support its use as a prophylactic. The FDA revoked its Emergency Use Authorization because of safety concerns.

Thank you Dr. Kildare. Your TV medical advice is much appreciated.
As a affected human being, I have read there is a robust debate among medical professionals on what works. Some survivors have exclaimed hydroxychoroquine with zinc saved their lives. Doctors are using it.
As for the CDC, they once said, back in March, masks aren’t effective.
What does CDC stand for? Center for disease control. I don’t think they have performed any of those three words wrt Wuhan virus.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I'm going to introduce some people to the Cochrane Review.  It is a collection of research to inform decision making for evidence based medicine.  This is their section on Covid 19 . . .

https://www.cochrane.org/coronavirus-covid-19-cochrane-resources-and-news#public

There is a myth buster link . . .

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Quote:FACT: Studies show hydroxychloroquine does not have clinical benefits in treating COVID-19 


Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, a treatment for malaria, lupus erythematosus, and rheumatoid arthritis, has been under study as a possible treatment for COVID-19. Current data shows that this drug does not reduce deaths among hospitalised COVID-19 patients, nor help people with mild or moderate disease.

The use of hydoxychloroquine and chloroquine is accepted as generally safe for patients with malaria and autoimmune diseases, but its use where not indicated and without medical supervision can cause serious side effects and should be avoided.

They also have a Health Facts page you can use to look up information . . .

https://ihealthfacts.ie/faq/does-chloroquine-prevent-or-treat-covid-19/

 
So have fun learning kids.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-30-2020, 12:10 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Thank you Dr. Kildare.  Your TV medical advice is much appreciated.
As a affected human being, I have read there is a robust debate among medical professionals on what works. Some survivors have exclaimed hydroxychoroquine with zinc saved their lives. Doctors are using it.
As for the CDC, they once said, back in March, masks aren’t effective.
What does CDC stand for?  Center for disease control. I don’t think they have performed  any of those three words wrt Wuhan virus.

Here we go again . . .

Eighty percent of doctors write prescriptions for acute bronchitis when it isn't needed.  And patients claim a z pack helps their colds despite no evidence to support a z packs use to treat a cold.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131004105256.htm

The CDC said masks aren't effective for what?

[*bfine32*]

I think we're all in this together. I don't subscribe to any one remedy/ mitigation measure. What is right today is disputed tomorrow, what was disputed yesterday in right today. No one has all the answers and we can find opposing views to any stance we choose. If one person has all the answers then where's the cure?

[*jason*]

(07-30-2020, 12:10 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Thank you Dr. Kildare. Your TV medical advice is much appreciated.
As a affected human being, I have read there is a robust debate among medical professionals on what works. Some survivors have exclaimed hydroxychoroquine with zinc saved their lives. Doctors are using it.
As for the CDC, they once said, back in March, masks aren’t effective.
What does CDC stand for? Center for disease control. I don’t think they have performed any of those three words wrt Wuhan virus.

His medical advice carries more weight than the game show host, and radio and TV gas bags that you're clearly getting your advice from.

[*jason*]

(07-29-2020, 12:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure wouldn't want that guy operating on me!

You might wanna Google some images of the host of the Apprentice trying to catch a baseball. Pretty much on par with my 4 year old daughter. You know he backed outta throwing the first pitch at the Yankees game for a reason... And it ain't cause he's busy.

[Luvnit2]

The issue is we have a new virus, one which has no cure, had no proven scientific sure fire ways to treat it to prevent death and our scientists have been far from consistent. They say follow the science, but have contradicted and lied to us.

The WHO said this virus was not able to transfer human to human. WRONG!
Experts like Faucci downplayed it back in January and February. They were WRONG!!!
The subject of masks came up and Faucci lied over and over again saying no need to wear masks. In fact, he and CDC said more harm could come than good.
Fast forward and they all reverse position and want to mandate masks, still no scientific proof, just a hunch.
They say noone should be within 6 feet of each other for more than 15 minutes while inside, then allow planes to carry passengers for hours in a closed place and not social distanced.

I could go on and on, but the truth is it is no one's fault (other than the Chines government and WHO for hiding it) as a virus hit, we had no test for it, no treatment for it, no cure for it so all of the experts were in scramble mode.

The original estimate was millions would die in the US alone, so while losing one life to any illness is a shame, less than 300,000 would be a huge win considering the level we started to combat the virus. We started at zero, we can blame Obama, we can blame Trump or blame both, but blame never fixed an issue. All we can do is keep trying to do our part to not spread it now. Wear a mask, take your temp. daily minimum, wash your hands every 60 minutes minimum, social distance and be very cautious around the vulnerable.

I just wish the Chinese communist government (not Chines people) would have given us accurate info and not wasted 2 to 3 months for us to understand how bad this virus was. We lost valuable time to create a vaccine.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-30-2020, 01:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The issue is we have a new virus, one which has no cure, had no proven scientific sure fire ways to treat it to prevent death and our scientists have been far from consistent. They say follow the science, but have contradicted and lied to us.

The WHO said this virus was not able to transfer human to human. WRONG!
Experts like Faucci downplayed it back in January and February. They were WRONG!!!
The subject of masks came up and Faucci lied over and over again saying no need to wear masks. In fact, he and CDC said more harm could come than good.
Fast forward and they all reverse position and want to mandate masks, still no scientific proof, just a hunch.
They say noone should be within 6 feet of each other for more than 15 minutes while inside, then allow planes to carry passengers for hours in a closed place and not social distanced.

I could go on and on, but the truth is it is no one's fault (other than the Chines government and WHO for hiding it) as a virus hit, we had no test for it, no treatment for it, no cure for it so all of the experts were in scramble mode.

The original estimate was millions would die in the US alone, so while losing one life to any illness is a shame, less than 300,000 would be a huge win considering the level we started to combat the virus. We started at zero, we can blame Obama, we can blame Trump or blame both, but blame never fixed an issue. All we can do is keep trying to do our part to not spread it now. Wear a mask, take your temp. daily minimum, wash your hands every 60 minutes minimum, social distance and be very cautious around the vulnerable.

I just wish the Chinese communist government (not Chines people) would have given us accurate info and not wasted 2 to 3 months for us to understand how bad this virus was. We lost valuable time to create a vaccine.

I’m going to unpack this in PNR.

[*pally*]

It is not Feburary any more. There is far more known about the virus including how it transmits. So yeah, the narrative has moved on from the early days into new recommendations. That is part of life...learning new information and making adjustments as necessary.
Unfortunately, a science denying politician declared Hydroxychloroquine a "gamechanger" before it was properly tested. And because he can't admit he was wrong, when the scientific studies came back and said it wasn't, he doubled down. So of course, because he must be right his supporters won't believe otherwise. Now, we have fringe doctors, most of whom aren't actually treating COVID patients, are saying ignore the science and believe the politician...and the followers say of course.
The virus is running rampent because far too many people are listening to the politicians

[Bengalfan4life27c]

All of european union roughly same population as us has it under control and back to living somewhat normal lives. while its borderline out of control at best here and a total trainwreck at worst.

[Sled21]

(07-30-2020, 12:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Here we go again . . .

Eighty percent of doctors write prescriptions for acute bronchitis when it isn't needed.  And patients claim a z pack helps their colds despite no evidence to support a z packs use to treat a cold.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131004105256.htm

The CDC said masks aren't effective for what?

Well here's the bottom line, and then I'm done discussing it. If you don't want to take it because you don't think it works, then don't. There ain't no one forcing it down your throat. Personally, if I get it, I'm taking it in the off chance all of those doctors swearing by it are correct. It's been around for almost 70 years, it's safe, so there's nothing to lose by trying. There is no other treatment other than Remdesivir which is lackluster in it's results as well. That's my choice. You do you, I'll do me.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-30-2020, 03:14 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well here's the bottom line, and then I'm done discussing it. If you don't want to take it because you don't think it works, then don't. There ain't no one forcing it down your throat. Personally, if I get it, I'm taking it in the off chance all of those doctors swearing by it are correct. It's been around for almost 70 years, it's safe, so there's nothing to lose by trying. There is no other treatment other than Remdesivir which is lackluster in it's results as well. That's my choice. You do you, I'll do me.

I see a minimum of ten Covid 19 patients every shift since we started testing in early June (so minimum of 280) in an out patient setting and the majority have ranged from asymptomatic to mildly to moderately ill.  Some have needed to be admitted, but at that point they're out of my care.  I've only had one patient asked for hydroxychloroquine.  I told them the same thing I told you; it's not indicated for Covid 19 based upon a lack of evidence it helps.  That was the end of it.  I get more shit from patients about wanting an antibiotic for a cold.

If I get Covid 19, I'm not going to take hydroxychloroquine because a Tic Tac has as much evidence it works for Covid 19.  Despite your claim there in nothing to lose by trying it, I know it can cause fatal arrhythmias even in people without pre-existing heart diseases.  So the small risk of a known adverse reactions outweighs the benefit of medication without a proven benefit.  There is no way of predicting whether it would or wouldn't cause an arrhythmia because of QT prolongation.  And just because it didn't happen in the past doesn't mean it can't happen in the future.

Now if I'm critically ill in the ICU, then the possible benefit of using an unproven drug outweighs the risk of fatal arrhythmia because at that point they're trying to prevent me from dying anyway.  But, at that point I won't be in any position to dictate to the ICU doctor what medications I will or won't take.  But, I'm sure a Critical Care Specialist who knows much more than I would love for me to tell them how to do their job.

And I listed other treatments earlier, such as methylprednisolone or dexamethasone that do have evidence they work.  You would be much better off requesting medications that have evidence they work, than ones that don't. And stop listening to economist and politicians for your medical advice.

[bengals1969]

(07-30-2020, 01:50 PM)jason Wrote: His medical advice carries more weight than the game show host, and radio and TV gas bags that you're clearly getting your advice from.

I'll let this guy speak for me cuz it is exactly the point I'm making.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fda-chief-hydroxychloroquine-use-a-decision-between-doctor-and-patient/ar-BB17n388


From Doctor Stephan Hahn, Director of the FDA.

"We had data that when this drug was combined with others, there was some risk associated with that. But the question you're asking me is a decision between a doctor and a patient," Hahn said on NBC's "Today" show.

"A doctor and a patient need to assess the data that's out there, FDA does not regulate the practice of medicine, and that in the privacy of the doctor-patient relationship is where that decision should be made."

That was my point.  A simple point from a simple man.  The practice of medicine is complex.  Many times there are no easy answers.  Wuhan is a complex illness with mysterious origins and mutations.  If a person is sick from it, the best course of treatment is between you and your MD, as he said, it's "where the decision should be made".  This cheap, readily available drug has had successes, its had failures, with neither so common as to vitiate its usage.  Like the Dr said.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-30-2020, 12:10 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Thank you Dr. Kildare.  Your TV medical advice is much appreciated.
As a affected human being, I have read there is a robust debate among medical professionals on what works. Some survivors have exclaimed hydroxychoroquine with zinc saved their lives. Doctors are using it.
As for the CDC, they once said, back in March, masks aren’t effective.
What does CDC stand for?  Center for disease control. I don’t think they have performed  any of those three words wrt Wuhan virus.

Thank you my friend. Well said and take your Hydroxy and zinc bro.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-30-2020, 01:55 PM)jason Wrote: You might wanna Google some images of the host of the Apprentice trying to catch a baseball. Pretty much on par with my 4 year old daughter. You know he backed outta throwing the first pitch at the Yankees game for a reason... And it ain't cause he's busy.

So what? You hate Trump? Big surprise Jase.

I dislike Fauci, not gonna lie and I dislike all the people lying to me.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-30-2020, 04:48 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I'll let this guy speak for me cuz it is exactly the point I'm making.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fda-chief-hydroxychloroquine-use-a-decision-between-doctor-and-patient/ar-BB17n388


From Doctor Stephan Hahn, Director of the FDA.

"We had data that when this drug was combined with others, there was some risk associated with that. But the question you're asking me is a decision between a doctor and a patient," Hahn said on NBC's "Today" show.

"A doctor and a patient need to assess the data that's out there, FDA does not regulate the practice of medicine, and that in the privacy of the doctor-patient relationship is where that decision should be made."

That was my point.  A simple point from a simple man.  The practice of medicine is complex.  Many times there are no easy answers.  Wuhan is a complex illness with mysterious origins and mutations.  If a person is sick from it, the best course of treatment is between you and your MD, as he said, it's "where the decision should be made".  This cheap, readily available drug has had successes, its had failures, with neither so common as to vitiate its usage.  Like the Dr said.

https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/what-we-do

Quote:The Food and Drug Administration is responsible for protecting the public health by ensuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, and medical devices; and by ensuring the safety of our nation's food supply, cosmetics, and products that emit radiation.

The FDA does have a say in the safety and efficacy of medications despite what a Trump appointee who is part of a whistle blower investigation says.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-30-2020, 01:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think we're all in this together. I don't subscribe to any one remedy/ mitigation measure. What is right today is disputed tomorrow, what was disputed yesterday in right today. No one has all the answers and we can find opposing views to any stance we choose. If one person has all the answers then where's the cure?

Exactly. I just don't want the truth to be censored like it is by social media right now...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-29-2020, 05:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Feel free to take Fauci's advice... he was big at the Wuhan clinic too. I'll listen to doctors like Stephen Smith who are actually treating patients. That's what's great about a free country.

Or Stella Emmanuel...

She is daring ole Fredo Coumo to give her a urine test, he is probably on the hydroxy...

Then just lies about it cause he hates Trump like the rest of the media, sad shit.

Lie, let people die, lie some more, all cause of political affiliation. Weird world.

I don't want to be on that side.

[fredtoast]

(07-30-2020, 05:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Or Stella Emmanuel...

 Google her.

[fredtoast]

(07-30-2020, 05:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Then just lies about it cause he hates Trump like the rest of the media, sad shit.

So the most popular news network in America is not part of the media?