Tate Hate

[XenoMorph]

(10-12-2015, 02:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ssssssssshhhhhhh...... don't tell Fred that........... starting our team with horrible field position THREE TIMES had no impact on the game!  Starting that deep in our own territory had no effect on play calling and on our inability to score on those drives!

it really didnt... Converting on some of those 3rd downs stalled the drives most of which we effectly flipped the field position

[GodFather]

(10-12-2015, 01:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What, you don't think it was the game plan to go 85-90 yards every drive vs that Seattle defense? 

Of course not, I think the game plan was to barely make it out of the end zone to see how good our offense really is.

"Hey Tate, run it out to the 12 yard line every time, Im tired of hearing how explosive this offense is. Lets see if its for real"
-Coach Lewis

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-12-2015, 03:03 PM)Shady Wrote: I don't know. My son and I have a running joke whenever we get the ball close to our own 10 yard line: "Now we've got 'em just where we want 'em." 

Seems like we build more momentum when we have a little more room to operate. And we damn sure take more time off the clock.

At least a good percentage of the time. 

Because we are a good team. And most offenses are better with more room, because you can do more. That's why a false start inside the 5 isn't always a killer. 
But yeah, we can strike fast and vertically right now. 
So it wasn't that bad long run, but overall, they were stupid decisions by Tate that on an off day could have crippled the offense. 

[BFritz21]

(10-12-2015, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Didn't change the play calling or our ability to score on those drives at all.

It is not like we were pinned inside the 5 yard line.  We called the same plays starting from the 15 that we would have from the 20.

Are you serious?!  

You don't think that starting from your own 15 (or 11, by the way, which happened off the second kick-off, but how many times do I have to point out that you post false information and just assume that we'll all swallow it because it comes from you?) has an effect on play calling instead of starting from the 20?  

9 (or even 5) yards difference makes a big difference in play calling when you're that deep in your own territory because, for one, defenses will play a lot tighter and not fear giving up a big play because they know offenses won't risk having the quarterback stand in the pocket long enough to take a sack, making it difficult to complete shorter passes.

They'll also crowd the box more to stop the run. 

(10-12-2015, 03:14 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: it really didnt... Converting on some of those 3rd downs stalled the drives most of which we effectly flipped the field position

It effected the play calling and mentality on those drives.

Could we have converted?  Sure, but the point is that there's no reason to make it that difficult and it also disrupts the momentum of our team and flow of the game.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-12-2015, 03:14 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: it really didnt... Converting on some of those 3rd downs stalled the drives most of which we effectly flipped the field position

Which is playing the laws of averages. 
When you have to go 90 yards, you need to convert more 3rd downs. 
So yeah, you flip the field maybe but you also set yourself up for being happy with "flipping the field" thanks to an awful decision by the kick returner. 
It wasn't like they corner kicked it and we got stuck. 

[XenoMorph]

(10-12-2015, 03:39 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Are you serious?!  

You don't think that starting from your own 15 (or 11, by the way, which happened off the second kick-off, but how many times do I have to point out that you post false information and just assume that we'll all swallow it because it comes from you?) has an effect on play calling instead of starting from the 20?  

9 (or even 5) yards difference makes a big difference in play calling when you're that deep in your own territory because, for one, defenses will play a lot tighter and not fear giving up a big play because they know offenses won't risk having the quarterback stand in the pocket long enough to take a sack, making it difficult to complete shorter passes.

They'll also crowd the box more to stop the run. 

It effected the play calling and mentality on those drives.

Could we have converted?  Sure, but the point is that there's no reason to make it that difficult and it also disrupts the momentum of our team and flow of the game.

okay first you seem angry. unbunch them panties Second how many of those drives we started within our own 20 were 3 and outs? it seemed to me we made it past the 20 yard spot every time so really it didnt effect anything other than the actual field position and how many plays it took to get to the endzone

[XenoMorph]

(10-12-2015, 03:40 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Which is playing the laws of averages. 
When you have to go 90 yards, you need to convert more 3rd downs. 
So yeah, you flip the field maybe but you also set yourself up for being happy with "flipping the field" thanks to an awful decision by the kick returner. 
It wasn't like they corner kicked it and we got stuck. 

they were definately bad calls to bring those 3 out. as i said in my first post on this subject.

Tate also made good plays on the coverage unit though.

And where we started didnt slow down the offense more so than the defense we played.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-12-2015, 03:46 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: they were definately bad calls to bring those 3 out. as i said in my first post on this subject.

Tate also made good plays on the coverage unit though.

And where we started didnt slow down the offense more so than the defense we played.

That one good play doesn't atone for 3 god awful ones that could have easily crippled the offense. 

Again, you are looking at laws of averages. Going 85+ every drive will end in more 3 and outs than not. 

Yes we are clicking on offense now, but we are also playing at a somewhat unsustainable rate. There will be some regression. No need to risk compounding it with Tate being a selfish player. 

[BFritz21]

(10-12-2015, 03:44 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: okay first you seem angry. unbunch them panties  Second how many of those drives we started within our own 20 were 3 and outs?  it seemed to me we made it past the 20 yard spot every time so really it didnt effect anything other than the actual field position and how many plays it took to get to the endzone

Not angry at you, it's just annoying when Fred constantly throws out bullshit.

Maybe it's because a lot of them have been during personal shots at me, but I just get mad when he does it, which he continuously does.

Second, like Royal said (added to my point), it's just a law of averages and it makes it more difficult to sustain drives when you have to get an additional 5 or 9 yards to get into scoring position.

[XenoMorph]

(10-12-2015, 04:11 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Not angry at you, it's just annoying when Fred constantly throws out bullshit.

Maybe it's because a lot of them have been during personal shots at me, but I just get mad when he does it, which he continuously does.

Second, like Royal said (added to my point), it's just a law of averages and it makes it more difficult to sustain drives when you have to get an additional 5 or 9 yards to get into scoring position.

No doubt... It does especially against better Defenses. In the End it all worked out and im sure tate and Simmons will be spending time together this week in the film room.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

3 terrible decisions by Tate against the Seahawks.

You don't bring those kicks out, you just don't. He had one great ST's play but those were some bad decisions by him
trying to Return those so deep in the endzone. Needs to wisen up.

[Crowe]

He absolutely deserves the hate, he's ***** terrible, one good play does not erase the years of mediocrity to shittiness that is Brandon Tate

[Devils Advocate]

The decision to bring the kicks out weren't poor decisions in and of themselves. Guys bring those kicks out every game.

I think Brandon just makes poor reads on where to run. The difference between him and Adam (on punts) is night and day. It's not like the blockers are doing things differently when Adam is out there, he just makes the correct reads.

I also agree with whoever said Brandon was trying to build upon his great play from last week where it's possible he had a big head.

It's also possible that he was instructed to bring everything out by Coach.

Tate is serviceable and has the trust of the coaching staff where it's apparent ball security trumps big returns and I can't blame them using that philosophy. Giving up a costly turnover, which more often than not yields points on a TO from a botched return, must be something Marvin and company adamantly oppose.

[Derrick]

(10-11-2015, 11:42 PM)GodFather Wrote: Tate was horrendous today. His decision after decision to take the ball out of the end zone put the offense in a bad situation and his punt returns weren't any better. Yes, he had a phenomenal catch last Sunday but more often than not he plays subpar.

Decision making has ALWAYS been his biggest problem.

[fredtoast]

I don't think Tate made good decisions to bring those kicks out, but it is hard to say.

It is actually a better decision to run out a line drive kick that is 8 yards deep than it is to run out a kick one yard deep that has exceptional hang time.

[Slappy from New Haven]

(10-12-2015, 09:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think Tate made good decisions to bring those kicks out, but it is hard to say.

It is actually a better decision to run out a line drive kick that is 8 yards deep than it is to run out a kick one yard deep that has exceptional hang time.

Very general comment at best

[fredtoast]

(10-12-2015, 03:39 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Are you serious?!  

You don't think that starting from your own 15 (or 11, by the way, which happened off the second kick-off, but how many times do I have to point out that you post false information and just assume that we'll all swallow it because it comes from you?) has an effect on play calling instead of starting from the 20?  

9 (or even 5) yards difference makes a big difference in play calling when you're that deep in your own territory because, for one, defenses will play a lot tighter and not fear giving up a big play because they know offenses won't risk having the quarterback stand in the pocket long enough to take a sack, making it difficult to complete shorter passes.

Actually I am completely serious.  The opposing defense does not play any different when we start at the 15 than when we start at the 20.  And our offense does not call different plays when we start at the 15 or 20.

If you actually looked at the plays we called you would realize that I am 100% correct.  Even when we got a penalty and had first down on our own 6 we threw the ball aggressively down the field.

[fredtoast]

(10-12-2015, 09:18 PM)Slappy from New Haven Wrote: Very general comment at best

Actually it is a very informative comment.  Many people here think that the only thing that matters is how deep into the endzone the ball is kicked.

Much more informative than your reply.

[BFritz21]

(10-12-2015, 09:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think Tate made good decisions to bring those kicks out, but it is hard to say.

It is actually a better decision to run out a line drive kick that is 8 yards deep than it is to run out a kick one yard deep that has exceptional hang time.

Except not all kicks that go 8 yards deep are line drives.

Actually, very few are, even with the new rules of the ball being kicked from the 35.  When you are kicking that far, line drives typically don't hang in the air long enough to get that far or, if they do, weren't low enough in the first place to warrant taking it out.

(10-12-2015, 09:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I am completely serious.  The opposing defense does not play any different when we start at the 15 than when we start at the 20.  And our offense does not call different plays when we start at the 15 or 20.

If you actually looked at the plays we called you would realize that I am 100% correct.  Even when we got a penalty and had first down on our own 6 we threw the ball aggressively down the field.

Once again, Fred is likely throwing out some bogus argument that holds no water.  From what I've seen, that's wrong, and I'm tired of looking things up just to verify that you're wrong.

(10-12-2015, 09:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it is a very informative comment.  Many people here think that the only thing that matters is how deep into the endzone the ball is kicked.

Much more informative than your reply.

Except no it's not because of what I mentioned above.

[TKUHL]

At some point after the 1st or 2nd return the coach had to tell Tate to stop so A. He didnt listen and should not be trusted back there or B. He was never told by a coach. He should not be back there, didnt we draft a return guy? or does it take 3 years to develop a KR.