Carlos speaks out about Racism and Bengals

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 01:08 PM)PhilHos Wrote: How? How does Mike Brown donating more money or making a stronger statement of support going to reduce racism in America?

The exact same way that it helps with everything else.  The more people see that the majority oppose something the more it dies away.  Racisim and homophobia are rooted in ignorance.  So the answer is more education and public awareness 

Right now there are lots of kids being raised in racists households.  It is tough to get through to them.  But the more they see that people they respect like pro athletes and owners oppose racism the more they will question what they are being taught in homes.

You have lived long enough to see the popular opinion change dramatically on issues of homosexuality and racism.  What do you believe is behind the change?  To me it really seems to all stem from more public awareness.

How will ignoring the problem fix anything?  

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 01:08 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It's white privilege to follow the rules? And that doesn't make you a racist, how?

It is white privilege to get to continue practicing when the "rules" say the field is closed.  How were the white players following the rules?

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 01:07 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: To each their own, but this doesn't pass the smell test for me.  This would/should have been a huge story.  Yet I can't find one single article about it, other than this one where Carlos talks about it.

So it is now out there in the media.  If it does not become a huge national story then that proves your argument is BS.

[Sled21]

(08-26-2020, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is white privilege to get to continue practicing when the "rules" say the field is closed.  How were the white players following the rules?

We don't know, because we don't know the whole story. But, if a person is looking for racism, they can probably find it, even if it's not there.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 01:07 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Maybe it's not closed.  Maybe it's something else.  Examples:

-Maybe it's reserved.

-Maybe the time limit was up on their use.

-Maybe that field is only used for certain activites.

-Maybe they don't allow mixed groups (soccer and football)

-Maybe they violated park rules in some way.

Why di  the park ranger refuse to explain any of this to them?

Oh, I forgot, racism does not exist unless it is on video.  By some amazing coincidence the ONLY time white people ever do anything wrong to minorities is when they are in front of a camera. Otherwise it is just all made up by minorities.  So obviously Carlos Dunlap is just lying to try and stir up trouble. Racism just does not exist except when it is filmed.  Who can argue with this type of logic? 

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-26-2020, 01:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why di  the park ranger refuse to explain any of this to them?

How do you know he didn't?

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 01:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We don't know, because we don't know the whole story. But, if a person is looking for racism, they can probably find it, even if it's not there.

And if a white person wants to claim racism does not exist he can always come up with some excuse.

This is juts a perfect example of how the races view things differently.  There is TONS of proof that racism still exists in America.  Bit when a law officer gives preferential treatment to white people black people see racism while white people see "It had to be something other than racism".

There is proof that law enforcement engages in racial profiling.  So it is kind of hard for minorities to believe them when they say "Yeah, we treat minorities differently but only "sometimes".  The rest of the time we treat everyone the same".

If you had a girlfriend who you knew had cheated on you before would you just blindly accept any excuse if you found her with another man again? "Yeah, honey, I have cheated on you before, but I was just spending the weekend with this guy because we are just good friends."

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 02:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How do you know he didn't?

Because Dunlap said he asked the guy but got no answer.

[Wes Mantooth]

Actually, if the park story is true then Carlos Dunlap, and the other NFL guys who were asked to move, did a huge diservice to their community by not immediately speaking out and bringing attention to their mistreatment.

They should have immediately filed a complaint with the park district. They should have tried to make the event locally known, by giving interviews with the local news. They should have their money and fame to bring awareness to this abuse by a racist park ranger.

But they did none of that. He waited two months to drop a single paragraph reference of the event to a barely relevent local reporter that's based in a town that is 1,000 miles away.

Meanwhile this ranger might still have his job, where he's mistreating others. The parks department faced no real consequences, and may still be rife with discrimanatory culture.

Carlos really could and should have done more.

[Sled21]

(08-26-2020, 02:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And if a white person wants to claim racism does not exist he can always come up with some excuse.

This is juts a perfect example of how the races view things differently.  There is TONS of proof that racism still exists in America.  Bit when a law officer gives preferential treatment to white people black people see racism while white people see "It had to be something other than racism".

There is proof that law enforcement engages in racial profiling.  So it is kind of hard for minorities to believe them when they say "Yeah, we treat minorities differently but only "sometimes".  The rest of the time we treat everyone the same".

If you had a girlfriend who you knew had cheated on you before would you just blindly accept any excuse if you found her with another man again? "Yeah, honey, I have cheated on you before, but I was just spending the weekend with this guy because we are just good friends."

Of course racism still exists, no one is arguing that. That doesn't mean everything is racist. And no one said it has to be something other than racism, the Ranger could be a Klansman for all we know. But we have no evidence of that. It's all Carlos' supposition. If it was so egrigious, why didn't he file a complaint with the PD instead of hacking on the Bengals 1000 miles away?  Mike Brown is not speaking about things like the Floyd case, because he doesn't have the facts. Seems to me he's a smart man.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 02:12 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Actually, if the park story is true then Carlos Dunlap, and the other NFL guys who were asked to move, did a huge diservice to their community by not immediately speaking out and bringing attention to their mistreatment.

They should have immediately filed a complaint with the park district.  They should have tried to make the event locally known, by giving interviews with the local news. They should have their money and fame to bring awareness to this abuse by a racist park ranger.

But they did none of that.  He waited two months to drop a single paragraph reference of the event to a barely relevent local reporter that's based in a town that is 1,000 miles away.

Maybe he tried but officials informed him that racism did not exist unless it was on video.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-26-2020, 01:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So it is now out there in the media.  If it does not become a huge national story then that proves your argument is BS.

Two months after the fact, in comments made to Richard Skinner who is based 1,000 miles away from where the abuse of power occurred.

Shame on all these guys for not speaking up. Carlos is way late to the game, and the others remain silent.  They are part of the problem.

This ranger and a potentially corrupt parks department have been let off scott free because these guys didn't do more.  For something he's so passionate about, he's guilty of the same thing he's complaing about.

Do more, Carlos!

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-26-2020, 02:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because Dunlap said he asked the guy but got no answer.

You said any of them.  How do you know he didn't explain it to any of them?

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The exact same way that it helps with everything else.  The more people see that the majority oppose something the more it dies away.  Racisim and homophobia are rooted in ignorance.  So the answer is more education and public awareness 

Since I was a kid, any time there was anything even remotely racist, it was publicly and usually loudly condemned. For most of my life, racists had to hide their racism because it was not publicly acceptable (in most of America) to be racist.

(08-26-2020, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Right now there are lots of kids being raised in racists households.  It is tough to get through to them.  But the more they see that people they respect like pro athletes and owners oppose racism the more they will question what they are being taught in homes.

I highly doubt a message from Mike Brown saying "racism is bad" is going to convince someone living in a household where the parents complain about "n-words" is going to have any kind of affect.

Seriously, though, this implies that pro athletes and owners are, by default, saying racism is okay unless they make a public statement against racism.

(08-26-2020, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have lived long enough to see the popular opinion change dramatically on issues of homosexuality and racism.  What do you believe is behind the change?  To me it really seems to all stem from more public awareness.

I don't really think it was so much public awareness but public acceptance. And, yes, you probably can't have the acceptance without the awareness, but public awareness doesn't really change anything. 

(08-26-2020, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How will ignoring the problem fix anything?  

I never said ignoring it will fix anything. However, Mike Brown has already released a statement and made a monetary donation to help fix the problem. You can't say he's ignoring the problem. Well, I mean, I guess you can, but that doesn't mean you're right. 

You want to fix the problem? Let's address specific issues together. Let's continue to make it unacceptable to be racist in public. Let's reward inclusivity. Let's work TOGETHER not tell a whole group of individuals that their opinions don't count or shouldn't be heard or they're the problem or they don't understand the problem etc. etc. etc.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is white privilege to get to continue practicing when the "rules" say the field is closed.  How were the white players following the rules?

Only if ALL whites get to practice when the rules say the field is closed all the time. Otherwise, it's straight up racist to allow a white group to continue to use the field while telling the black group to skedaddle.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 02:32 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Since I was a kid, any time there was anything even remotely racist, it was publicly and usually loudly condemned. For most of my life, racists had to hide their racism because it was not publicly acceptable (in most of America) to be racist.

Not so much the condemnation as the fact that it even exists.  When I first became an NFL fan there were no black head coaches and blacks were not considered smart enough to be quarterbacks.  But I don't remember the nation "loudly condemning" the NFL over this.  Instead it was just accepted and no one complained too much. 

Same thing is still happening to day on a smaller scale. Some people are still telling their children that racism ended in the 1960's; the Civil War was not fought over slavery; the reason black people are poor is because they are lazy and immoral and are never the victim of systemic racism; or that racism does not exist unless it is caught on video.

[sandwedge]

(08-26-2020, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is white privilege to get to continue practicing when the "rules" say the field is closed.  How were the white players following the rules?

IDK, but maybe the field Carlos was on, was closed for maintenance or something and the other field wasn't.

[GreenCornBengal]

I’m thinking Mike Brown and the Bengals organization don’t do much more other than the statement and the donation because of reactions from folks who pay for their entertainment.

How many times have I read “I’ll root for this team until they kneel!”. “I’m done with this team when they start kneeling!”. “If this player kneels I’m no longer watching any games!”

Perhaps Mike Brown is running a business and thinks if he goes too far into the anti-racism realm some of his bigoted fans will back out of supporting his business...

As they often say in the NFL... “it’s a business”

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 02:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not so much the condemnation as the fact that it even exists.  When I first became an NFL fan there were no black head coaches and blacks were not considered smart enough to be quarterbacks.  But I don't remember the nation "loudly condemning" the NFL over this.  Instead it was just accepted and no one complained too much. 

When you first became an NFL fan, how many black players tried to become NFL QBs and were turned away? I'm sure it happened back when racism was more openly acceptable, but since I became an NFL fan there weren't that many that I was aware of.

But, even so, let's assume it's still happening today. Then, by all means, awareness of this MUST be brought to the public. However, that's not the kind of awareness that is being asked of Mike Brown. Mike Brown has already made a statement of support against racism AND made a monetary donation. Forcing Mike Brown to say even louder that 'racism is bad' is not going to do anything to solve the problem of racism in America.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 03:15 PM)sandwedge Wrote: IDK, but maybe the field Carlos was on, was closed for maintenance or something and the other field wasn't.

Dunlap asked the officer and got no explanation like this.

This thread is turning into a perfect example of why we have so many racial issues in this country.  White people refuse to believe that anything racist ever happens unless it is on video.  This despite the fact that they have seen video of groups of angry white men marching and chanting "Blood and soil" and have seen a video of Ahmed Abrey getting murdered by white men and knowing that a white DA said there was no crime committed.

I guess this thread is headed to the "locked" category, and maybe it should.  But I am really disappointed at the number of people who are bending over backwards to call Dunlap a liar.  The guy has been nothing but a class act for over a decade, but as soon as he asks Mike Brown to take more steps to address racial injustice he is treated like a pariah.