Reflecting back 2009

[SunsetBengal]

The 2009 season was one of anxious anticipation, as Carson Palmer was returning from a second debilitating injury. His movement was limited, his confidence was low. The team needed to come up with a solution. Somehow, the Bengals managed to sweep the division that year, and advance to the playoffs.

How did they manage to do that with a crippled QB and much uncertainty surrounding the OL? They brought in a hero. Yes, they enlisted a 3rd Tackle to present an unbalanced line. Not only did they present that look, they rode the jackhammer Cedric Benson hard, to the tune of keeping a poor defense off the field as long as possible. That method worked them into the playoffs, only to be undone by the team that they had faced the week before, the Jets.

Amongst that story of an unprobable trip to the playoffs is an unsung hero. That hero is none other than Dennis Roland. His unselfish service to the team allowed them to keep the ball away from opposing high powered offenses, thus permitting the Bengals to win games that they might have otherwise lost. We salute you, Dennis Roland for your unwavering service to the team!

Now, why would I bring this up, after 11 years? Because with the current state of the Bengals OL, I feel like they might be able to establish enough of a running game to actually give Dead Eye Joe a chance to win.

[J24]

The Defense was 4th overall that season and the offense was very inefficient that year. I don't think copying the extra offensive lineman idea is going to work.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-25-2020, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The 2009 season was one of anxious anticipation, as Carson Palmer was returning from a second debilitating injury.  His movement was limited, his confidence was low.  The team needed to come up with a solution.  Somehow, the Bengals managed to sweep the division that year, and advance to the playoffs.

How did they manage to do that with a crippled QB and much uncertainty surrounding the OL?  They brought in a hero.  Yes, they enlisted a 3rd Tackle to present an unbalanced line.  Not only did they present that look, they rode the jackhammer Cedric Benson hard, to the tune of keeping a poor defense off the field as long as possible.  That method worked them into the playoffs, only to be undone by the team that they had faced the week before, the Jets.

Amongst that story of an unprobable trip to the playoffs is an unsung hero.  That hero is none other than Dennis Roland.  His unselfish service to the team allowed them to keep the ball away from opposing high powered offenses, thus permitting the Bengals to win games that they might have otherwise lost.  We salute you, Dennis Roland for your unwavering service to the team!

Now, why would I bring this up, after 11 years?  Because with the current state of the Bengals OL, I feel like they might be able to establish enough of a running game to actually give Dead Eye Joe a chance to win.

?

Palmer had a broken nose and a F'd up elbow in 2008. There was nothing wrong with his legs.

He actually had career highs in rushing yards (93), rushing TDs (3), and rushing 1st downs (13)... the next highest for those numbers? Rushing yards (50 in 2010), rushing TDs (1 in 5 different years), and rushing 1st downs (7 in 2012). So not only were they career highs, they were significantly more than his second best year.

His yards per attempt/yards per completion were lower that year than his career average, but also that year the Ravens had the 3rd ranked defense and the Steelers had the 5th ranked defense and he was simply asked to do a little less because of the Bengals' 4th ranked defense requiring less offense to win.

That's the thing that you are overlooking in your thread here. Why were they able to grind out the 9th ranked running game even though they were 19th in yards per carry? Because Zimmer was overseeing the 4th ranked (6th scoring) defense that year. 

The Bengals had the 24th overall (22nd scoring) offense that year. Roland was a minor footnote in the 2009 season's formula for success because that offense wasn't very successful. Defense, defense, and defense were the top 3 reasons. 4th might be Quan Cosby being 5th in average punt return (and 1st in total punt return yardage) allowing the Bengals D to dominate the field positioning game.

[motoarch]

They played small ball that year and it worked.

They had an awesome defence and offence got by on slowing the clock and pounding the rock 3.5 yards at a time.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-25-2020, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The 2009 season was one of anxious anticipation, as Carson Palmer was returning from a second debilitating injury.  His movement was limited, his confidence was low.  The team needed to come up with a solution.  Somehow, the Bengals managed to sweep the division that year, and advance to the playoffs.

How did they manage to do that with a crippled QB and much uncertainty surrounding the OL?  They brought in a hero.  Yes, they enlisted a 3rd Tackle to present an unbalanced line.  Not only did they present that look, they rode the jackhammer Cedric Benson hard, to the tune of keeping a poor defense off the field as long as possible.  That method worked them into the playoffs, only to be undone by the team that they had faced the week before, the Jets.

Amongst that story of an unprobable trip to the playoffs is an unsung hero.  That hero is none other than Dennis Roland.  His unselfish service to the team allowed them to keep the ball away from opposing high powered offenses, thus permitting the Bengals to win games that they might have otherwise lost.  We salute you, Dennis Roland for your unwavering service to the team!

Now, why would I bring this up, after 11 years?  Because with the current state of the Bengals OL, I feel like they might be able to establish enough of a running game to actually give Dead Eye Joe a chance to win.

I still think 2011 is much better comparison.. Dalton rookie qb.. Burrow rookie qb..2010 4-12 with a bad line (outside of Whitworth).. 2019 2-14 with a bad line.. (Williams has looked ok but still a rookie)... we were 1-1 in 2011.. Dalton had been sacked 5 times.. so things were not great either.. we struggled over the next couple games.. but then went on a run... Dalton and Green found chemistry .. hopefully Burrow and Green or Higgins will do the same and we get the running game going like we did in 2011. 

[fredtoast]

The offense over the first 8 games was top 10 in the league.

After we lost Chris Henry in week 8 the team was crap. We had no receiving threats at RB or TE, and only one WR who could even get open against single coverage. Opposing defenses bracketed Ochocinco and our passing game became the worst in the league.

We beat the Steelers without scoring an offensive TD in game #9 and after that we did not beat a single team better than 5-11. In fact we struggled to even beat some of those bad teams.

Some of my greatest Bengal memories are from that year, but the team was just smoke and mirrors after week 8.

[*Synric*]

Its wasnt just an extra offensive linemen it was an offset line. The Bengals would overload a side with TWO extra offensive linemen by playing a TE as the backside offensive tackle.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-25-2020, 09:04 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I still think 2011 is much better comparison.. Dalton rookie qb.. Burrow rookie qb..2010 4-12 with a bad line (outside of Whitworth).. 2019 2-14 with a bad line.. (Williams has looked ok but still a rookie)... we were 1-1 in 2011.. Dalton had been sacked 5 times.. so things were not great either.. we struggled over the next couple games.. but then went on a run... Dalton and Green found chemistry .. hopefully Burrow and Green or Higgins will do the same and we get the running game going like we did in 2011. 

Bullshit.

Whitworth-Livings-Cook-Bobbie-'dre

Whitworth is the man, Livings had his best year yet, Cook was solidly average, Bobbie was incredible and 'dre had his first of 5 stellar years.

Andy was sacked 5 times in the first 2 games because Bobbie was hurt or suspended and Boling started at RG, as a rookie and an underweight rookie at that.

Amazing how people misremember/forget/make things up/use revisionist history.

[impactplaya]

I recalled being really excited over the Odom signing.remember how shocked we were
Over the money Reader got. ? The.Odom.signing was just as attention getting.
I was excited cause Chris Henry looked to have himself together.
He was the ultimate deep threat. He was very Moss like in his talents.
Then.you.throw in Lavernous Coles. That was a solid WR group.
That team was fun to.watch. It had a punch you in the mouth running game.
Heck even washed up Larry Johnson had a 100 yd game in spot duty.
If Slim doesnt break his forearm vs the Ravens I think this team could have went far.

Defensively it had a few vet castoffs that had chips on.their shoulders. Johnson, Crocker, Jones. That was truly a team defense. Hall and Joseph had 6 picks apiece.
But the coaches on.that staff didnt accept half ##### efforts. They knew how to put players
In position to maximize their talents. There was no " we will try to get better next week"
This team forged a idenity and built upon it

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-25-2020, 11:24 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I recalled being really excited over the Odom signing.remember how shocked we were

That was 2008

[impactplaya]

(09-25-2020, 11:31 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That was 2008

I stand corrected

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(09-25-2020, 10:24 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Bullshit.

Whitworth-Livings-Cook-Bobbie-'dre

Whitworth is the man, Livings had his best year yet, Cook was solidly average, Bobbie was incredible and 'dre had his first of 5 stellar years.

Andy was sacked 5 times in the first 2 games because Bobbie was hurt or suspended and Boling started at RG, as a rookie and an underweight rookie at that.

Amazing how people misremember/forget/make things up/use revisionist history.

Yeah, amazing how the NFL made up the stat that shows that the 2010 Bengals had the worst average yards per rush attempt in the league.

This was the season that made Carson Palmer walk away. Half of the time, they couldn't covert a 3rd and 1, but people want to believe that Dalton walked into a stacked 4-12 team for some reason.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-25-2020, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The 2009 season was one of anxious anticipation, as Carson Palmer was returning from a second debilitating injury.  His movement was limited, his confidence was low.  The team needed to come up with a solution.  Somehow, the Bengals managed to sweep the division that year, and advance to the playoffs.

How did they manage to do that with a crippled QB and much uncertainty surrounding the OL?  They brought in a hero.  Yes, they enlisted a 3rd Tackle to present an unbalanced line.  Not only did they present that look, they rode the jackhammer Cedric Benson hard, to the tune of keeping a poor defense off the field as long as possible.  That method worked them into the playoffs, only to be undone by the team that they had faced the week before, the Jets.

Amongst that story of an unprobable trip to the playoffs is an unsung hero.  That hero is none other than Dennis Roland.  His unselfish service to the team allowed them to keep the ball away from opposing high powered offenses, thus permitting the Bengals to win games that they might have otherwise lost.  We salute you, Dennis Roland for your unwavering service to the team!

Now, why would I bring this up, after 11 years?  Because with the current state of the Bengals OL, I feel like they might be able to establish enough of a running game to actually give Dead Eye Joe a chance to win.

You always make me think brother, that is a good ode to Roland. That Jumbo Line was good with the way The Boogie Man ran.

I just don't know if it fits what Smokin' Joe does best. 

Burrow likes to have a 5 man front and to be able to see the entire field with his weapons at his disposal.

Still thinking that using the 2 RB set with both Mixon and Gio is the greatest way to maximize this Offense. 

[Essex Johnson]

(09-25-2020, 10:24 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Bullshit.

Whitworth-Livings-Cook-Bobbie-'dre

Whitworth is the man, Livings had his best year yet, Cook was solidly average, Bobbie was incredible and 'dre had his first of 5 stellar years.

Andy was sacked 5 times in the first 2 games because Bobbie was hurt or suspended and Boling started at RG, as a rookie and an underweight rookie at that.

Amazing how people misremember/forget/make things up/use revisionist history.

Bullshit back..  4-12 for a reason.. they were 22 in offense in 2010.. they also did not run the ball that well in 2010 Cook and Livings were in their 3rd year in 2011.. Williams was in his 10th a shell of himself.. he played 1/2 the games, pretty much out of football in a year.  Andre Smith had barely played.. so we had no idea what we would get out of him... by 2012 we had replaced Livings and Williams, Cooks played two more seasons... 

They were not very good coming into the season besides Whit... I agree Smith did start to perform.. but we had no clue how he was going to play.. Only Whit at that time would be considered a big upgrade to what we have now .. eventually Smith will start to play and not be hurt but really outside of Whit.. they were just a serviceable line at best

[Essex Johnson]

(09-26-2020, 01:09 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Yeah, amazing how the NFL made up the stat that shows that the 2010 Bengals had the worst average yards per rush attempt in the league.

This was the season that made Carson Palmer walk away. Half of the time, they couldn't covert a 3rd and 1, but people want to believe that Dalton walked into a stacked 4-12 team for some reason.

it fits the narrative that Dalton was handed a good team and he had little to do with the success of the run to 5 playoffs...

[Pat5775]

(09-25-2020, 08:02 PM)J24 Wrote: The Defense was 4th overall that season and the offense was very inefficient that year. I don't think copying the extra offensive lineman idea is going to work.

Correct. The defense was finally approaching elite levels under Zimmer in 2009. I believe 2008 was the year Marvin decided to fix something that wasn’t broken: the offense. I can’t remember exactly when, but there was a press conference during the 2008 offseason where Marvin said he wanted to “blow it all up” and “find a better way to win”. I remember this vividly because that press conference filled me with hope and fear. I didn’t know exactly what he meant. I assumed he meant just the lackluster defense, as the offense didn’t have much of a problem at the time. But as it turned out, I believe he meant the entire team.

Marvin said a couple of times over the years that he wanted the offense on the field as long as possible. He believed that scoring too quick was often times detrimental to the defense. And he’s absolutely right about that. However, he went about it the wrong way. It’s no secret that Carson was not a dink-and-dunk QB. Before Norm Chow arrived at USC and installed an Air-Coryell type offense that suited Carson’s strengths, Carson was having a very underwhelming college career.

Carson was fortunate enough to inherit a similar Air-Coryell offense when he arrived in Cincinnati. It worked for him, and it worked very well. However, it was very obvious that the Bengals gradually devolved into a run-first, short passing team in 2008. It made sense through most of that year with Ryan Fitzpatrick starting. But once Carson came back in 2009, the offense remained very slow-paced. It was clear that Marvin “fixed” the whole team by having Brat call a much more conservative offense. It clearly worked quite well in 2009. But when Carson Palmer is your QB, you’re holding back your best player by going this route.

It failed miserably in 2010, and the “cardiac cats” were dead. We all know what happened with Carson after that year

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-25-2020, 08:02 PM)J24 Wrote: The Defense was 4th overall that season and the offense was very inefficient that year.  I don't think copying the extra offensive lineman idea is going to work.

The "inefficient offense" you refer too helped minimize the job the defense had to do. People always seem to discount the effect of this, but as the Ravens and Chiefs defenses what they think about their offenses.

They were able to sustain long drives and demoralize teams with that rushing attack.  But the key is that they dedicated themselves to the run.  They didn't bail on it if a team slowed them early.  They kept pounding.  I think our coach thinks he is Andy Reid and he simply doesn't have that kind of talent to run that offense.  Last year, it took him until mid-season to figure out how they should lean on the run and changed the blocking scheme.  

Lastly, it would help protect Burrow and would allow for greater play-action.  Look up what Goff does off play-action.  

Regardless, I just have very little faith in our coaching staff (on either side of the ball) to have the creativity and discipline to right the ship.  Only Simmons, the last guy to know his depth chart each week who also had to deal with no camp, OTA, or preseason, stands out with the #1 ranked unit in the NFL.  Maybe that should be our next HC candidate. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-25-2020, 09:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The offense over the first 8 games was top 10 in the league.

After we lost Chris Henry in week 8 the team was crap.  We had no receiving threats at RB or TE, and  only one WR who could even get open against single coverage.  Opposing defenses bracketed Ochocinco and our passing game became the worst in the league.  

We beat the Steelers without scoring an offensive TD in game #9 and after that we did not beat a single team better than 5-11.  In fact we struggled to even beat some of those bad teams.

Some of my greatest Bengal memories are from that year, but the team was just smoke and mirrors after week 8.

They are not giving him much of a chance to have a role like Henry, but they did play the same position.  People need to remember the impact Henry had taking the top off the defense before shouting to have Ross taken off the field.  

I only wished that 2009 team had a pass-option out of that formation.  A mis-direction with everything else flowing one way.  That could have been a big play or at least kept a safety out of the box.  

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2020, 01:13 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:

You always make me think brother, that is a good ode to Roland. That Jumbo Line was good with the way The Boogie Man ran.

I just don't know if it fits what Smokin' Joe does best. 

Burrow likes to have a 5 man front and to be able to see the entire field with his weapons at his disposal.

Still thinking that using the 2 RB set with both Mixon and Gio is the greatest way to maximize this Offense. 

Agreed, I don't think that they should make that their permanent base offense.  However, they could do a lot for the defense by going to it situationally, and against teams where they need to shorten the game and give the defense some help.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-26-2020, 12:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, I don't think that they should make that their permanent base offense.  However, they could do a lot for the defense by going to it situationally, and against teams where they need to shorten the game and give the defense some help.

True, I like changing it up. That is also why I really liked Hue as an OC.

Hue would throw Defenses for a loop with his play calls...