Changing My Mind About Taylor

[*PhilHos*]

I have been saying for the last few weeks that we need to give Taylor this season before we write him off as a failure. After yesterday's game, I'm having a hard time keeping to that deadline.

The optimist in me says to just give him more time; we've lost so many games by 1 score or less and once he turns it around we'll start winning those games.

The fan who sat through all the Bengals teams from the 90s says to jettison him now and try to salvage this season with someone else (Darrin Simmons? Wade Phillips?) and then try again with the a whole new coaching staff in the offseason (assuming interim HC does not do well enough).

And honestly the pessimist in me is starting to win my internal debates.

Any other frequent Zac defenders feel the same?

[Big Boss]

Quote:The optimist in me says to just give him more time; we've lost so many games by 1 score or less and once he turns it around we'll start winning those games.

SPOILER: It's not coming.

[*jason*]

Everybody loses games by one score or less... The problem is that we're losing more games than anyone else... Let's see whatchu got Simmons.

[jj22]

Just think. This may be year 2 of 17.

Simmons would make sense. We need someone to manage the operations and gameday, Taylor needs to turn OC over and focus on managing the team.

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 01:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I have been saying for the last few weeks that we need to give Taylor this season before we write him off as a failure. After yesterday's game, I'm having a hard time keeping to that deadline.

The optimist in me says to just give him more time; we've lost so many games by 1 score or less and once he turns it around we'll start winning those games.

The fan who sat through all the Bengals teams from the 90s says to jettison him now and try to salvage this season with someone else (Darrin Simmons? Wade Phillips?) and then try again with the a whole new coaching staff in the offseason (assuming interim HC does not do well enough).

And honestly the pessimist in me is starting to win my internal debates.

Any other frequent Zac defenders feel the same?

There is a New York Post article on firing Adam Gase and this was a quote from there:

“To the fans that are calling for [Gase’s] his head, I never really understood that,’’ Van Roten said. “I was on a team last year, we fired our coach and it’s not like we started winning games. You go further in the tank. So, I’m not really sure what that solves.”



I looked back at every time a team had an interim coach since 2010. There have been 20 instances in that time where a coach was fired before the end of the season. Interim coaches have gone 39-65 in that time. Only two had winning records. One was Jason Garrett, who replaced Wade Phillips in Dallas in 2010 in midyear. The other is Gregg Williams, who replaced Hue Jackson in 2018 with the Browns. Both went 5-3. No team has made the playoffs who replaced their coach.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/28/jets-firing-adam-gase-would-only-accomplish-one-thing/


If the season ends with another 2 wins or 3 wins even, you move on but I don't see the benefit in changing things mid season, never have, unless it is to bench a player for another guy.

New coach means new system, and a new way of doing things. It is hard to put that sort of change into effect correctly at the mid way point. Plus, you aren't going to hire a guy who is going to be the long term solution right now. Can't go get a OC or DC from another team right now, so you would be replacing with another guy who is coaching a 0-2-1 team, or a guy sitting at home on his couch who wasn't deemed good enough by any of the 32 teams to start with.

There isn't a real benefit to switching guys right now unless you think someone on this coaching staff is going to be the next Jason Garrett.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 01:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: Just think. This may be year 2 of 17.

Could be the optimist in me, but I actually believe if we get anything less than 4 wins, Taylor is gone. Mike Brown isn't running this team anymore. The Council of Decision Makers that chose Taylor may actually recognize that Taylor isn't the answer and may move on (though I do recognize that there is still a good chance he gets at least 1 more season regardless of win totals this year)

[Yojimbo]

(09-28-2020, 01:36 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There is a New York Post article on firing Adam Gase and this was a quote from there:

“To the fans that are calling for [Gase’s] his head, I never really understood that,’’ Van Roten said. “I was on a team last year, we fired our coach and it’s not like we started winning games. You go further in the tank. So, I’m not really sure what that solves.”



I looked back at every time a team had an interim coach since 2010. There have been 20 instances in that time where a coach was fired before the end of the season. Interim coaches have gone 39-65 in that time. Only two had winning records. One was Jason Garrett, who replaced Wade Phillips in Dallas in 2010 in midyear. The other is Gregg Williams, who replaced Hue Jackson in 2018 with the Browns. Both went 5-3. No team has made the playoffs who replaced their coach.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/28/jets-firing-adam-gase-would-only-accomplish-one-thing/


If the season ends with another 2 wins or 3 wins even, you move on but I don't see the benefit in changing things mid season, never have, unless it is to bench a player for another guy.

New coach means new system, and a new way of doing things. It is hard to put that sort of change into effect correctly at the mid way point. Plus, you aren't going to hire a guy who is going to be the long term solution right now. Can't go get a OC or DC from another team right now, so you would be replacing with another guy who is coaching a 0-2-1 team, or a guy sitting at home on his couch who wasn't deemed good enough by any of the 32 teams to start with.

There isn't a real benefit to switching guys right now unless you think someone on this coaching staff is going to be the next Jason Garrett.

Yeah, firing a HC mid season usually doesn’t lead to the team improving, unless it’s a special circumstance with just the right guy already on the staff. What it does do, is allows the team to start planning for next season before everybody else that might be looking for a new HC, evaluating the roster, etc.

[JSR18]

Regardless of what happens to ZT (he stays, he goes, gets to play out the year) THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is to stop JoeB from getting hit. Do whatever it takes in the next 3 minutes to get this done. Getting your franchise QB hit 5 times is unacceptable. He got hit 20 times yesterday.

This whole team from Katie down to the jock strap washer should have been tasked at 0605 this morning with having a fix by 3pm. Anything else is grossly inept personnel management...

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 01:54 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Yeah, firing a HC mid season usually doesn’t lead to the team improving, unless it’s a special circumstance with just the right guy already on the staff. What it does do, is allows the team to start planning for next season before everybody else that might be looking for a new HC, evaluating the roster, etc.

If the Bengals aren't already planning they have already failed... and based on past experiences, they most likely aren't planning.

[Big Boss]

I mean for ****'s sake, they might as well start coaching these linemen to blatantly hold defenders. Take the penalty instead of getting your QB killed.

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 01:58 PM)Big Boss Wrote: I mean for ****'s sake, they might as well start coaching these linemen to blatantly hold defenders.  Take the penalty instead of getting your QB killed.

The Steeler method of line coaching. Hold every play since there is no way the refs will throw a flag every snap.

[Pat5775]

Likewise. I’m done with Taylor. He is a complete loser

[thompson19osu]

(09-28-2020, 01:59 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The Steeler method of line coaching. Hold every play since there is no way the refs will throw a flag every snap.

This does make sense.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(09-28-2020, 01:59 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The Steeler method of line coaching. Hold every play since there is no way the refs will throw a flag every snap.

I know you're trying to be tongue in cheek but that's absolutely true.  Still, it's the way their offensive line coach teaches the Steelers the way to hold which makes the difference.  If the hands get outside the defensive lineman's shoulder pads for more than three seconds the officials will call holding every time.  What the Steelers do is hold inside the pads which is hard to discern from simple body blocking.  Watch Alejandro Villanueva and Ramon Foster because they do it very well but center Maurkice Pouncey might be the sneakiest of all.

[*Nately120*]

Im not even bothering to throw a fit over ZT's presence until Burrow does.

[Yojimbo]

(09-28-2020, 01:56 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If the Bengals aren't already planning they have already failed... and based on past experiences, they most likely aren't planning.

I’m not talking about normal offseason planning, I’m talking about the planning of looking for a new coaching staff. If the team went outside of active NFL coaches, they could even start interviewing and doing background research while everybody else is still concentrating on winning this season.

[Okeana]

Taylor seems like a nice guy, but what he's risking and doing with Burrow is down right criminal. They continually roll out an offensive line that has allowed 14 sacks in 3 weeks and about a total of 40 hits. The fact that they performed so badly in week 2, but choose to roll it out again in week 3 and allowed Burrow to take that crazy hit this week is just a glimpse into things to come. When we play baltimore or the ravens I'm almost certain he's going to get injured and Zac Taylor is allowing it to happen.

Aside from Simmons the whole coaching staff needs to go this year and I don't even need to see the rest of the season to know this.

[Jhowdy54]

Was about 5 times the Bengals ran this exact playpen they bring the WR in motion across the field and snapping the ball right before he gets to the QB. Each time Burrow faked the handoff to the WR and quick pitched it to Mixon. Each time that play went for a loss it seemed. Not sure if that play is set before hand to pitch it or if Burrow has the option to hand it to the WR. Anyways defense wasn't fooled at all.

[Hammerstripes]

I'm still up in the air about Taylor. This team (and last year's) absolutely play hard for him. I think he's a good leader.

What has me up in the air is the horrible offensive line. I still can't figure out if the guy can coach offense or call plays because this line is soooo shitty.

I think we will see the following in the offseason:

1. They keep Taylor
2. They fire Turner
3. They fire Lou and bring in a veteran DC.

They draft an OT, OG and bring in a veteran interior lineman.

I think if they don't make the playoffs, then we get a new staff with a respected name. Guys are going to be very attracted to this job with Burrow.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-28-2020, 01:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I have been saying for the last few weeks that we need to give Taylor this season before we write him off as a failure. After yesterday's game, I'm having a hard time keeping to that deadline.

The optimist in me says to just give him more time; we've lost so many games by 1 score or less and once he turns it around we'll start winning those games.

The fan who sat through all the Bengals teams from the 90s says to jettison him now and try to salvage this season with someone else (Darrin Simmons? Wade Phillips?) and then try again with the a whole new coaching staff in the offseason (assuming interim HC does not do well enough).

And honestly the pessimist in me is starting to win my internal debates.

Any other frequent Zac defenders feel the same?

He deserves to only get until the Bye, but the Bengals will give him until (at least) the end of the season.

I'd be perfectly ok with the Bengals handing interim HC duties over to Simmons, allow Callahan the ability to try to call plays, and bring in Phillips to replace Anarumo all at the bye week.