PFF Ranks Cincy's Defense top 10.

[*psychdoctor*]

I see Bates as one of the core players but Wj3 has improved some this year. Out side of Simmons, I think Sweet Lou is performing well. Nice to see.

[KillerGoose]

(10-16-2020, 09:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, I will eat crow on that one. I argued that was one of the more bold predictions. But outside of an occasional bad game where he seems to forget how to tackle he’s been a stud.

I thought he’d be good, but I never dreamed he could be in the conversation for best FS in the league. If he can get better at wrapping up big RB’s he will be an absolute game changer back there. Henry should be a big test for him Sunday...

Do you mean Taylor? Otherwise, I am not familiar with a Henry on the Colts. Regardless, I agree. If this defense can shore up the run defense, they would be a reasonably strong unit. And I believe that if Waynes & Reader were still healthy, the run defense would be better (though not great). I think missing Waynes is an underlooked issue, given how physical he is in the run game. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-16-2020, 10:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, my apologies for misreading, or actually skimming your post..

:andy:

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-16-2020, 10:19 PM)Synric Wrote: So you're saying you want to tell Jessie Bates we want to pay you the least we can possibly can for two years and let you hit free agency?

Or do you tell the Best Player on your defense that is still very young we want to pay you a year early to keep you in stripes for the entire prime of your career?

I'd go with B.

How about C?

You tell Jessie Bates that you are going to take the path that puts the most talent around him to give him the experience of his first NFL winning season and hopefully a postseason run.

That is over $7-8m/yr over those two years that you can put towards FA OL instead.

He can either force the issue, get paid, and be a loser... Or he can still make generational money (roughly $13m over two years), get on board as a team player, and be a winner. 

If he still wants A, then maybe he isn't the type of guy you want around long term anyway.

[J24]

(10-17-2020, 12:45 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How about C?

You tell Jessie Bates that you are going to take the path that puts the most talent around him to give him the experience of his first NFL winning season and hopefully a postseason run.

That is over $7-8m/yr over those two years that you can put towards FA OL instead.

He can either force the issue, get paid, and be a loser... Or he can still make generational money (roughly $13m over two years), get on board as a team player, and be a winner. 

If he still wants A, then maybe he isn't the type of guy you want around long term anyway.

If it was a video game I would agree with you but we're living in the real world with real human emotion. If you want to piss off a player (and the team around him) don't pay the guy that has worked his ass off and made himself one of the best players in the league.

[J24]

(10-16-2020, 11:22 PM)Tony Wrote: They are literally one of the worst run Ds in football. Team's dont have to pass...

1.) It's a QB league so the strategy has to be centered around stopping the QB.
2.) The pass rush is more worrisome than the then the run defene.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-17-2020, 12:55 AM)J24 Wrote: If it was a video game I would agree with you but we're living in the real world with real human emotion. If you want to piss off a player (and the team around him) don't pay the guy that has worked his ass off and made himself one of the best players in the league.

Except none of those players are going to be pissed off when they are winning. Also let's be honest. F anyone on the defense's feelings if it means you can protect Joe Burrow better. Safeties don't win SBs. QBs win SBs, and QBs need OLs.

The Bengals have been real nice in the history to "their guys" when it comes to extensions and honoring contracts. How has that turned out in wins and playoff runs? Other teams get more out of the same cap space by manipulating it, restructuring deals, getting players to take pay cuts... All so they can fit more talent on the team in order to try to boost that Lombardi.

At the end of the day the great players still want out because everyone who sticks around will be a multi-millionare. It is just a question of if you are going to be a rich winner or a rich loser.

Just this off-season Sammy Watkins took a pay cut to stay with the Chiefs. Why? Because he wanted to be on a winner.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-17-2020, 01:33 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except none of those players are going to be pissed off when they are winning. Also let's be honest. F anyone on the defense's feelings if it means you can protect Joe Burrow better. Safeties don't win SBs. QBs win SBs, and QBs need OLs.

The Bengals have been real nice in the history to "their guys" when it comes to extensions and honoring contracts. How has that turned out in wins and playoff runs? Other teams get more out of the same cap space by manipulating it, restructuring deals, getting players to take pay cuts... All so they can fit more talent on the team in order to try to boost that Lombardi.

At the end of the day the great players still want out because everyone who sticks around will be a multi-millionare. It is just a question of if you are going to be a rich winner or a rich loser.

Just this off-season Sammy Watkins took a pay cut to stay with the Chiefs. Why? Because he wanted to be on a winner.

You can't score if dont get the ball ..there is a list of SB teams that have had soso QBs and won. It is more about picks working out.. We will now have 4 number 1 picked over last 7 years on offense that have been bust, 3 of them lineman. Must draft better 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-16-2020, 06:52 PM)Synric Wrote: https://www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2020/10/16/21518843/bengals-defense-top-10-pro-football-focus-rankings-jessie-bates


With all the negative out there right now it's good to see the defense getting a little credit. They have have been hit by injuries and have played up and down but the defense is getting better as the year goes on...We will have to see how they handle life after DJ Reader and at least 4 weeks without Sam Hubbard.

Love how Bates has played, sucks about Hubbard and Reader big time.

Surprised we are ranked this high. Lou might not be as bad as I thought.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-17-2020, 08:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Love how Bates has played, sucks about Hubbard and Reader big time.

Surprised we are ranked this high. Lou might not be as bad as I thought.

Former DB coach, so if anything that should be a strength of his defense.

Not that it ever translated with Marvin and the LBers...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-17-2020, 08:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Former DB coach, so if anything that should be a strength of his defense.

Not that it ever translated with Marvin and the LBers...

Could we demote Lou to DB coach, bring in Zim and Wade Phillips and get rid of Taylor and the rest of the guys besides Simmons?

[fredtoast]

This is ridiculous.

If PFF told you guys that Rosie O'Donnell was hot you'd be lining up to buy her swimsuit poster.

The fact that they claim we have a top 10 defense is just more proof of what a joke they can be.  We have a good pass defense but it is worthless when teams can just run over us at will.

17th in points
25th in yards
15th in first downs
16th in yards per play
17th in turnovers
16th in 3rd down conversion %

[*Synric*]

(10-18-2020, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is ridiculous.

If PFF told you guys that Rosie O'Donnell was hot you'd be lining up to buy her swimsuit poster.

The fact that they claim we have a top 10 defense is just more proof of what a joke they can be.  We have a good pass defense but it is worthless when teams can just run over us at will.

17th in points
25th in yards
15th in first downs
16th in yards per play
17th in turnovers

Even Profootball reference has them ranked 17th and Football Outsiders has them ranked 14th.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-17-2020, 12:45 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How about C?

You tell Jessie Bates that you are going to take the path that puts the most talent around him to give him the experience of his first NFL winning season and hopefully a postseason run.

That is over $7-8m/yr over those two years that you can put towards FA OL instead.

He can either force the issue, get paid, and be a loser... Or he can still make generational money (roughly $13m over two years), get on board as a team player, and be a winner. 

If he still wants A, then maybe he isn't the type of guy you want around long term anyway.

Give me a break. Any guy that leaves money on the table to "help out his team" is an idiot. It's a business and these guys should approach it as such. No way in hell I'm ever going to fault or look down on a guy for going to get his.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-18-2020, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is ridiculous.

If PFF told you guys that Rosie O'Donnell was hot you'd be lining up to buy her swimsuit poster.

The fact that they claim we have a top 10 defense is just more proof of what a joke they can be.  We have a good pass defense but it is worthless when teams can just run over us at will.

17th in points
25th in yards
15th in first downs
16th in yards per play
17th in turnovers
16th in 3rd down conversion %

Does PFF explain the metrics they use? I'm with you, this defense has looked about as average as you can get this season. Not great...not horrible. 

[J24]

(10-18-2020, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is ridiculous.

If PFF told you guys that Rosie O'Donnell was hot you'd be lining up to buy her swimsuit poster.

The fact that they claim we have a top 10 defense is just more proof of what a joke they can be.  We have a good pass defense but it is worthless when teams can just run over us at will.

17th in points
25th in yards
15th in first downs
16th in yards per play
17th in turnovers
16th in 3rd down conversion %

It's a QB league and the Defense have been great so far against the pass. PFF values pass Defense over run Defense.
The Bengals pass Defense stats
6th in YPA
3rd in pass completion
4th in QB rating

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2020, 12:21 PM)J24 Wrote: It's a QB league and the Defense have been great so far against the pass. PFF values pass Defense over run Defense.

Then that is part of the reason they are a joke.

I conceded we have a top 10 pass defense, but it does not matter when overall our defense gives up lots of points and yards, does not force turnovers, and can't stop teams on 3rd down.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Never wanted Anarumo fired. Thought the defense would improve as the year went on due to all the new players and rookies.

As the linebackers improve, so will the defense

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2020, 12:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then that is part of the reason they are a joke.

I conceded we have a top 10 pass defense, but it does not matter when overall our defense gives up lots of points and yards, does not force turnovers, and can't stop teams on 3rd down.

I need to add that I have posted some of these same numbers when members here claim we have the worst defense in the league.  So I am not saying our defense is total garbage,  Just saying that there is no way we have a top 10 defense at this time.

[Sled21]

Yes, we have a pretty darned good defense so far this year, but some players who weren't performing got benched and complained about it on social media so let's fire the coaches.....