Atkins and Dunlap Frustrated with Being Phased Out

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

They have a defensive philosophy?

[kalibengal]

(10-19-2020, 03:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You are all totally glossing over the fact there's a reason Dunlap got demoted to just 3rd down. He SUCKS this year.

The facts are they dont have the juice anymore to be 3 down guys...and I actually agree bringing them in "limited snaps" with fresh legs to see if they can make some plays like the good ole' days. But...Im one of those guys that wanted to do the yard sale last yr and unload all these aging used to be good players.  They should do what Miami did last yr...start fresh with new rookie QB on rookie deal. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-19-2020, 03:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It's pretty simple, a lot of people with "legitimate gripes" change their gripes like their underwear. Pick a grip and stick with it. You either want to play vets, or you want to play best players. 

As for your simple questions of why pay Geno and Carlos... Geno is coming of his 6th consecutive Pro Bowl, his play and limited usage this year is because he is coming off shoulder injury. He's only been on the field for 2 games. His snaps will go up.  Carlos, on the other hand, was hurt early last year and was not productive, but once healthy went on a tear. Nothing in his last 5 or 6 games showed he had any signs of slowing down. So why trade him. Were they supposed to have some magic mirror tell them he would come back this year unmotivated to do anything other than whine about being kicked out of a park? Sure, we could trade them now, but the rest of the league is watching and we won't get crap for them. Better to sit him than to let him just take up space on the field.

You don't understand a very simple distinction:

Ways to properly "move on" (What people have been calling for):

--- Trade player.  (Results in draft/player compensation + Freed up cap space.

--- Cut player. (Results in freed up cap space)

*Note: Both result in player not actually being on this team anymore. (Moving on)

Ways to not properly "move on" (What people are bitching about):

--- Keep player at exorbitant cost, reduce role.

*Note: Player is still on the team. (Not moving on)

You're accussing people of wanting one thing (moving on) and then complaining about it that same thing later.  But that's not an accurate representation of the argument.

The Bengals chose to keep these guys for this season, they should use them.  And if Atkins is really worse than Xavier Williams, and if Dunlap is really worse than Armani Bledsoe then that only further supports the idea that we truly needed to move on.  As in, they're no longer here.

Now, if either of these players are traded then I suspect you may here less complaining, as we would recoup some value.  But unfortunately, the article states that we have no intention of trading either.  And even if we did, we aren't exactly improving their stock by benching them.

People have every right to call out this idiocy.  And you pretending like people are jumping from side to side of an argument, just to complain, isn't all fair.  That's not at all what is happening.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-19-2020, 03:11 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: They have a defensive philosophy?

Break, but don't get completely bent over.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-19-2020, 02:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This is another of those schizophrenic episodes, so you'll have to keep me up. Have we gone from "cut or trade Dunlap, Atkins and Green because they are shells of their former selves, and give the young guys a chance" to "Poor Carlos, Geno and AJ aren't getting enough playing time because Zac is being mean, and they should play more just because they are veterans". It's so hard to keep up....

Why can't it be both?

I think those complaining about both are mad at the fact that these guys are taking up a large amount of cap space while not being key contributors to the team.

If these guys were not going to be a big part of the plan, they should never have been kept.

[*michaelsean*]

So you limit their snaps, plan to move on after the year, but would be reluctant to trade them? Genius!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-19-2020, 03:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Break, but don't get completely bent over.

I thought it was post game excuses.

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 02:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote:   If Geno Atkins is worse than Xavier Williams, and Dunlap is worse than Amani Bledsoe, then doesn't that say something about the front office that kept these guys around?

What about Andy Dalton being worse than Ryan Finley?

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 03:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If these guys were not going to be a big part of the plan, they should never have been kept.

They had to be considered part of the plan coming onto this season.  Over the last half of last season Dunlap was as productive as any DE in the entire league.  Last year Geno's fellow NFL players voted him into the Pro Bowl.  Our` D-line was not deep enough to just get rid of two players like that.

I honestly have no idea what is going on with a lot of players on this team.  About the only aspect of the team I felt comfortable about coming into this season was the running game.  We made dramatic improvements midway through last season.  But now that is back in the toilet. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-19-2020, 03:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What about Andy Dalton being worse than Ryan Finley?

Totally different.

They were 0-8 when Andy Dalton was benched, and he was replaced by a 4th round rookie who we traded up to draft.

(Translation = The season was entirely over, and we needed to see if we had anything in Ryan Findlay so we could plan accordingly for offseason.)

These vets are having their roles reduced while there's still plenty of season left, by guys that don't have any chance of starting next season.

They wanted to see what they had in Ryan Findlay in a lost season.  Do you think that's true for Xavier Williams and Armani Bledsoe?

But I'm glad you brought up Andy Dalton.  Another guy we refused to move on until he was too late.  Didn't even consider trading him during the season, and ended up cutting him with absolutely nothing to show for it.

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 04:16 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They wanted to see what they had in Ryan Findlay in a lost season.  Do you think that's true for Xavier Williams and Armani Bledsoe?

I have no idea what is going on.  

If Taylor could not judge Finley's talent from watching him practice then the same is probably true for Bledsoe and Williams.

Dunlap kicked ass the second half of last season when he got healthy.  I find it hard to believe that he is now nothing more than a back-up to Armani Bledsoe.

[Sled21]

(10-19-2020, 03:19 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You don't understand a very simple distinction:

Ways to properly "move on" (What people have been calling for):

--- Trade player.  (Results in draft/player compensation + Freed up cap space.

--- Cut player. (Results in freed up cap space)

*Note: Both result in player not actually being on this team anymore. (Moving on)

You have to have a willing trade partner to trade. No one wants someone else's garbage. 

You can cut a player, but you have these pesky little things called contracts that mean we still have to pay them.

Ways to not properly "move on" (What people are bitching about):

--- Keep player at exorbitant cost, reduce role.

*Note: Player is still on the team. (Not moving on)

You're accussing people of wanting one thing (moving on) and then complaining about it that same thing later.  But that's not an accurate representation of the argument.

The Bengals chose to keep these guys for this season, they should use them.  And if Atkins is really worse than Xavier Williams, and if Dunlap is really worse than Armani Bledsoe then that only further supports the idea that we truly needed to move on.  As in, they're no longer here.

Atkins is not worse than X. Williams. Atkins is coming off of shoulder injury. When Atkins is fully healthy, he will play more snaps. It's not rocket science

Dunlap is not better than Blesoe, but Dunlap has a motivation problem. One would  think being one sac away from the record would motivate him, but it does not seem to. When he was demoted for the Ravens game, he had his best game of the season so far. That motivation did not carry into the Colts game. Therefore, at the end of this season, it's time to let him go. We simply have too many departures from the D line due to injury to cut him now. Again, not rocket science.

Now, if either of these players are traded then I suspect you may here less complaining, as we would recoup some value.  But unfortunately, the article states that we have no intention of trading either.  And even if we did, we aren't exactly improving their stock by benching them.

We aren't going to get anyone any good for them trading them at this point. If Dunlap is going to play flat for the rest of the season, then let Bledsoe play. Maybe that will provide the boot in the butt even Dunlap's Dad says he needs.

People have every right to call out this idiocy.  And you pretending like people are jumping from side to side of an argument, just to complain, isn't all fair.  That's not at all what is happening.

Yeah, it really is. People on here argue out both sides of their mouth when it comes to the team. Whatever the hindsight argument is, is where they go. "We want to see what the young guys have"  "MB always plays veterans and 1st rd draft picks instead of giving the new guys a chance"= "Why are we sitting our veterans and playing no name players"  All just flavor of the day.

[Sled21]

(10-19-2020, 04:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have no idea what is going on.  

If Taylor could not judge Finley's talent from watching him practice then the same is probably true for Bledsoe and Williams.

Dunlap kicked ass the second half of last season when he got healthy.  I find it hard to believe that he is now nothing more than a back-up to Armani Bledsoe.

Carlos relegated HIMSELF to backup with his lack of play in the first 4 games. His spot is still there for him to take. People want to say this is on Taylor, well this is on Dunlap. Why have him on the field if he's just going to stand there?

[bengaloo]

Dunlap hasnt had a good season. Atkins hasnt even had a chance. I dont know what the coaches are thinking on Atkins maybe they think he doesnt have a lot of gas left in the tank. It would be nice to find out though, and playing a little as he does isnt going to show much.

[Sled21]

(10-19-2020, 04:52 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Dunlap hasnt had a good season. Atkins hasnt even had a chance. I dont know what the coaches are thinking on Atkins maybe they think he doesnt have a lot of gas left in the tank. It would be nice to find out though, and playing a little as he does isnt going to show much.

I think the coaches are bringing him in slowly so he does not rea-ggaravate the shoulder and lose him for the rest of the season, just like all our other DTs

[GreenCornBengal]

The betterment of the team... ARze WE TaNKInG AGAiN?!?

[WeezyBengal]

I'm as hard on ZT as anyone but we are only getting half the story. For all we know Dunlap and Atkins could be completely dogging it. Maybe that want to ease Atkins back in. I dont know - there just seems to be more to this than what's being said. Wish the beat writers would get to the bottom of it. It's honestly lazy/one sided reporting.

[*pally*]

Carlos is going live...

A lot of “guesswork” being done on where I stand and what’s in my head. Well today I’m going live for whomever wants to listen. Tune in to my IG Live at 7pm.

Straight from the desk of Employee96! pic.twitter.com/dY7A2sYU4T

— Carlos Dunlap (@Carlos_Dunlap) October 19, 2020

[TecmoBengals]

(10-19-2020, 05:19 PM)pally Wrote: Carlos is going live...

A lot of “guesswork” being done on where I stand and what’s in my head. Well today I’m going live for whomever wants to listen. Tune in to my IG Live at 7pm.

Straight from the desk of Employee96! pic.twitter.com/dY7A2sYU4T

— Carlos Dunlap (@Carlos_Dunlap) October 19, 2020

This could get interesting. What if he boldly offers that the Bengals coaches are trash?

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 04:48 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Carlos relegated HIMSELF to backup with his lack of play in the first 4 games. His spot is still there for him to take. People want to say this is on Taylor, well this is on Dunlap. Why have him on the field if he's just going to stand there?

Dunlap has more tackles, tackles for loss, and PDs than any D-lineman on the active roster.

Carl Lawson is the only D-lineman with more sacks or QB hits.