Waynes + WJ3

[GreenCornBengal]

It would’ve been nice to see what this combo looked like this year. I have to believe this team gets a few more 3rd down stops with those 2 out there today.

Waynes is such a mystery, what would his impact have been? We got totally screwed in FA with misfortune this year. Waynes + WJ3 instead of Phillips + Sims and I think our average points against goes down about 7 points. Such a shame!

[bengaloo]

(10-25-2020, 08:30 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It would’ve been nice to see what this combo looked like this year. I have to believe this team gets a few more 3rd down stops with those 2 out there today.

Waynes is such a mystery, what would his impact have been? We got totally screwed in FA with misfortune this year. Waynes + WJ3 instead of Phillips + Sims and I think our average points against goes down about 7 points. Such a shame!

It seems like we could've done a lot better the last couple weeks with both of them playing. Waynes may have been an upgrade all year if we had him. We dont really know because he is a such a mystery but it seems like we would be a lot better with him for sure.

Phillips can let another coaching staff waste his talent as far as I'm concerned. Sims, whatever. We are missing Reader and Hubbard right now too and that aint helping the backup CBs look any better.

[Murdock2420]

(10-25-2020, 08:45 PM)bengaloo Wrote: It seems like we could've done a lot better the last couple weeks with both of them playing. Waynes may have been an upgrade all year if we had him. We dont really know because he is a such a mystery but it seems like we would be a lot better with him for sure.

Phillips can let another coaching staff waste his talent as far as I'm concerned. Sims, whatever. We are missing Reader and Hubbard right now too and that aint helping the backup CBs look any better.

You do realize this is the same guy who picked off Baker after Joe threw a pick in the endzone right?

[Rubekahn29]

(10-25-2020, 08:54 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You do realize this is the same guy who picked off Baker after Joe threw a pick in the endzone right?

You do it basically hit Phillips right in the hands? Its seems like over the past two weeks he is conistntly getting beat  and beat and beat. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-25-2020, 08:54 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You do realize this is the same guy who picked off Baker after Joe threw a pick in the endzone right?

Great, he can catch a ball thrown right to him. His overall coverage is pretty bad though. He’s been picked on two weeks in a row.

Alexander is the only CB that doesn’t seem to get constantly burned.

[bengaloo]

(10-25-2020, 08:54 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You do realize this is the same guy who picked off Baker after Joe threw a pick in the endzone right?

I'm glad he made that pick for sure, but he still sucks overall. That ball was a bit underthrown but it was very good coverage by Phillips on that play.

[Murdock2420]

(10-25-2020, 08:56 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: You do it basically hit Phillips right in the hands? Its seems like over the past two weeks he is conistntly getting beat  and beat and beat. 

You mean like everyone else on the defense?

Is it the defense guys all suck or is it the defense scheme is crap.

Zero pass rush... zero...

No corner is going to cover his guy every single play perfectly and endlessly with zero pass rush, that's just common sense.

What you are seeing is the other team is completely comfortable letting their QB sit in the pocket, scan the field and find the open guy. Be it the TE multiple times, or Sims getting beat, or Alexander getting beat, or Phillips.

You can't shit on the CBs when the QB can sit there and just scan the field endlessly with no fear. 

[Tony]

(10-25-2020, 09:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Great, he can catch a ball thrown right to him. His overall coverage is pretty bad though. He’s been picked on two weeks in a row.

Alexander is the only CB that doesn’t seem to get constantly burned.

ALEXANDER is a physical corner. He might be better than Wayne's. I hope we can keep him around..

[Murdock2420]

(10-25-2020, 09:01 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I'm glad he made that pick for sure, but he still sucks overall. That ball was a bit underthrown but it was very good coverage by Phillips on that play.

As I said a post before, it is impossible to ask a corner to cover a wideout when the QB is able to just stand on his spot every throw and set his feet and just pick his spot. Every corner is going to get beat, and when the QB has zero pressure all day long, it is really easy to find the open man.

Three weeks ago there was a thread here about people wanting WJIII gone, now people are freaking out he might want to be traded. All of the corners we have look like man to man corners being asked to play zone and that just isn't their strength.

So, is it bad corners? Bad scheme? Absolute zero pass rush? 

[jfkbengals]

(10-25-2020, 09:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: As I said a post before, it is impossible to ask a corner to cover a wideout when the QB is able to just stand on his spot every throw and set his feet and just pick his spot. Every corner is going to get beat, and when the QB has zero pressure all day long, it is really easy to find the open man.

Three weeks ago there was a thread here about people wanting WJIII gone, now people are freaking out he might want to be traded. All of the corners we have look like man to man corners being asked to play zone and that just isn't their strength.

So, is it bad corners? Bad scheme? Absolute zero pass rush? 

Why not all of the above?

We're kinda snobby about CB play around here, as we were blessed with some great tandems for quite some time:  TJ and O'Neal, JJo and Hall, Hall and Jones.

[Murdock2420]

(10-25-2020, 09:20 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Why not all of the above?

We're kinda snobby about CB play around here, as we were blessed with some great tandems for quite some time:  TJ and O'Neal, JJo and Hall, Hall and Jones.

It very well might be all the above, but everyone is hyper focused on one issue and one guy.

Could have 4 versions of Deion Sanders in his prime back in the secondary, but with no pass rush, the other team will complete passes. 

Mayfield like Rivers the week before had to feel like he was at practice wearing the don't touch me jersey. That makes it easy to complete passes.

All those good CBs tandems, also had good pass rushers in front of them.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-25-2020, 09:23 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: It very well might be all the above, but everyone is hyper focused on one issue and one guy.

Could have 4 versions of Deion Sanders in his prime back in the secondary, but with no pass rush, the other team will complete passes. 

Mayfield like Rivers the week before had to feel like he was at practice wearing the don't touch me jersey. That makes it easy to complete passes.

All those good CBs tandems, also had good pass rushers in front of them.

It’s definitely not just on one guy. He might be the worst out of the bunch though.

Vonn Bell has been super disappointing to me. I know he’s known for playing down in the box to stop the run, but I didn’t think his coverage would be this bad.

If I’m an opposing QB I wouldn’t go anywhere near Bates, when pretty much everyone else is a liability.

You’re right about having too much time though. No DB’s can cover forever.

[GreenCornBengal]

Pass rush is a must and yes, WJ3 and Waynes would both still struggle with the nonexistent pass around here. However, I still think they play just a tad tighter and we get off the field a few more times with them around.

[bengaloo]

(10-25-2020, 09:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: As I said a post before, it is impossible to ask a corner to cover a wideout when the QB is able to just stand on his spot every throw and set his feet and just pick his spot. Every corner is going to get beat, and when the QB has zero pressure all day long, it is really easy to find the open man.

Three weeks ago there was a thread here about people wanting WJIII gone, now people are freaking out he might want to be traded. All of the corners we have look like man to man corners being asked to play zone and that just isn't their strength.

So, is it bad corners? Bad scheme? Absolute zero pass rush? 

I think its a little bit of all of that. We are missing Waynes, were missing WJ3 today. Missing Reader and Hubbard. But at the same time Lou just isnt getting it done.

But I specifically picked on Phillips because he made a tweet about not wasting his talent and then has played poorly in both games since. The tweet was in bad taste, and all of this tweet crap is stupid imo. Ive over players and their tweeting.

[Murdock2420]

(10-25-2020, 10:02 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I think its a little bit of all of that. We are missing Waynes, were missing WJ3 today. Missing Reader and Hubbard. But at the same time Lou just isnt getting it done.

But I specifically picked on Phillips because he made a tweet about not wasting his talent and then has played poorly in both games since. The tweet was in bad taste, and all of this tweet crap is stupid imo. Ive over players and their tweeting.

This I will agree with.

You can't tweet and run your mouth if you aren't able to go out and back it up. And maybe he is able to back it up and the scheme sucks for his play style? 

I love that he has confidence in himself, but there are better ways to express it then calling out coaches on twitter or instagram. If the pass rush improves, and the scheme gets changed up and he is still looking like Rod Jones, then it is time for him to go. 

Right now I think it is impossible to call anyone player the issue when there are just so many problems with this team. From coaching, to play calling, to injuries, to miss-using guys.