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(11-24-2020, 01:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: Chad literally punched a coach at halftime. That's not a management beef.
Marvin said himself in his presser that the player's got Austin fired and he was taking over the D because they couldn't do the same to him.
Not to mention piss poor discipline, off field drama, and guys being guaranteed a starting job for life no matter how much they underperformed.
That's not to say the culture is good currently, but it's very much revisionist history to say Marvin built some great culture.
Chad punching Hue never happened and was disputed at the time.
That quote doesn't mean their was a mutiny it just states Austin wasn't doing a good job of coaching.
1.) Are you talking about the 2015 Playoff game. That is the only time I would say thier was poor discipline.
2.) Exaggerated by the media
3.) What are you talking about?
After 16 years in a place there going to be warts but acting like the culture was bad is pure crap and you know it.
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(11-24-2020, 01:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: Chad literally punched a coach at halftime.
Marvin said himself in his presser that the player's got Austin fired and he was taking over the D because they couldn't do the same to him.
guys being guaranteed a starting job for life no matter how much they underperformed.
WTF?
None of these things ever happened.
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(11-24-2020, 01:25 PM)GodFather Wrote: Speaking of lies you turned your past posts of 2 seasons to two drafts. Cause he was head coach longer than that.
Work on your arguments Colonel.
WTF are you talking about?
(11-24-2020, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They only gave Dick LeBeau two drafts to fix this team before he was replaced.
(11-24-2020, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You might not like actual facts, but it is a fact that Dick LeBeau was just given 2 drafts to fix this team.
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(11-24-2020, 02:10 PM)J24 Wrote: Chad punching Hue never happened and was disputed at the time.
That quote doesn't mean their was a mutiny it just states Austin wasn't doing a good job of coaching.
1.) Are you talking about the 2015 Playoff game. That is the only time I would say thier was poor discipline.
2.) Exaggerated by the media
3.) What are you talking about?
After 16 years in a place there going to be warts but acting like the culture was bad is pure crap and you know it.
The last 3 years (so from 2015 play off game onwards) was fairly warty though?
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(11-24-2020, 02:18 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The last 3 years (so from 2015 play off game onwards) was fairly warty though?
I was as big of a supporter of Marvin as anyone here, and even I said he should have been gone after the '17 season.
The problem Taylor has is that he has no history of success to earn the players respect. Marvin had a Super Bowl ring and a 15 year career winning record against other NFL head coaches despite working for one of the worst owners in professional sports.
Just to remind everyone
Mike Browns record with Marvin Lewis................. .518 win%, 7 playoffs, only 6 losing seasons in 16 years
Mike Browns record with all other head coaches.. .273 win%, zero winning seasons in 14 years
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(11-24-2020, 02:18 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The last 3 years (so from 2015 play off game onwards) was fairly warty though?
Not from a culture/Locker room standpoint no. Were there problems with time management and strategy yes but not culture.
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(11-24-2020, 01:48 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: So the media puts out an article about this AFTER Burrow goes down, and most of you take this and add it to your "ZT Sucks cuz reasons" agendas. Ya'll don't think there's a chance that now that (guessing) 70% + of the fan base won't be even tuning into anything football related that they're grasping at straws trying to reel folks back in? I'll admit, right when I saw the headlines I instantly thought Jim Turner, perhaps Anarumo based on his issues with Dunlap, but nothing I've seen in any way would make sense to implicate Taylor.
You're 100% flat out wrong here. I'm not trying to be rude here, but you are.
Elise Jesse has been writing things like this going all of the way back to when Carlos first went off. She's made numerous claims to the culture in the locker room not being the best for months. She's even used similar sources in the past.
Go look at her twitter page, and you'll see for yourself. Keep scrolling down, and down, and down. This article is basically a compilation of what she's been reporting for weeks and weeks.
Now, you may disagree with the premise of her article, and you may not put much stock in her sources, or her ability as a reporter. That is up to you. But you can't claim she pulled this story out of thin air, right after Burrow went down, in an effort only drive clicks. That's simply not true.
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(11-24-2020, 01:48 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: So the media puts out an article about this AFTER Burrow goes down, and most of you take this and add it to your "ZT Sucks cuz reasons" agendas. Ya'll don't think there's a chance that now that (guessing) 70% + of the fan base won't be even tuning into anything football related that they're grasping at straws trying to reel folks back in? I'll admit, right when I saw the headlines I instantly thought Jim Turner, perhaps Anarumo based on his issues with Dunlap, but nothing I've seen in any way would make sense to implicate Taylor.
As a fun comparison of what people "know", I've also been told for going on 10 or so years now that my Wildcats championships will have an asterisk because Calipari is a cheater, etc. Media articles, message boards, everything.
TLDR: Don't take the bait.
This fanbase is approaching a Cleveland level of pitchforking, and I'm saddened to see this. if Taylor sucks next year when he has a fair chance with a roster, I'll happily concede that it's time to go. But kneejerk reactions based on this sample size, considering all the other factors that DO MATTER, will just set us back a few more years.
Taylor is the head coach it all falls on him.
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(11-24-2020, 01:48 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: So the media puts out an article about this AFTER Burrow goes down, and most of you take this and add it to your "ZT Sucks cuz reasons" agendas. Ya'll don't think there's a chance that now that (guessing) 70% + of the fan base won't be even tuning into anything football related that they're grasping at straws trying to reel folks back in? I'll admit, right when I saw the headlines I instantly thought Jim Turner, perhaps Anarumo based on his issues with Dunlap, but nothing I've seen in any way would make sense to implicate Taylor.
As a fun comparison of what people "know", I've also been told for going on 10 or so years now that my Wildcats championships will have an asterisk because Calipari is a cheater, etc. Media articles, message boards, everything.
TLDR: Don't take the bait.
This fanbase is approaching a Cleveland level of pitchforking, and I'm saddened to see this. if Taylor sucks next year when he has a fair chance with a roster, I'll happily concede that it's time to go. But kneejerk reactions based on this sample size, considering all the other factors that DO MATTER, will just set us back a few more years.
I'm sorry, but no. Not me at least.
Taylor took a 6-win team in 2018 backwards to just 4.5 wins over the past 26 games. That's regression, not progression.
There are too many indicators pointing to this coaching staff being the problem.
Your choice to not see that is blind loyalty.
I don't want to see another decade of losing seasons.
We're already halfway through, and keeping Taylor around longer is likely going to result in getting closer to that 10-year mark.
The Bengals need to make changes now so they can hope to get back to a winning record in the next couple years.
Even if this franchise chooses to keep Taylor, they absolutely need to move on from Turner and Anarumo.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
Sorry for Party Rocking!
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Here's an Elise Jesse tweet from October 30th, just in case anyone believes she created this narritive because Burrow is now hurt, and they need to drive clicks:
[img] <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> [/img]
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(11-24-2020, 02:22 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You're 100% flat out wrong here. I'm not trying to be rude here, but you are.
Elise Jesse has been writing things like this going all of the way back to when Carlos first went off. She's made numerous claims to the culture in the locker room not being the best for months. She's even used similar sources in the past.
Go look at her twitter page, and you'll see for yourself. Keep scrolling down, and down, and down. This article is basically a compilation of what she's been reporting for weeks and weeks.
Now, you may disagree with the premise of her article, and you may not put much stock in her sources, or her ability as a reporter. That is up to you. But you can't claim she pulled this story out of thin air, right after Burrow went down, in an effort only drive clicks. That's simply not true.
ELISE JESSEUPDATED:NOV 24, 2020ORIGINAL:NOV 24, 2020
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Here's another...
[img] <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> [/img]
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And another...
[img] <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> [/img]
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Fair enough, Wes. But I really don't think it's referring to Taylor. I think Taylor's the easy target being HC, sure.
I guess I'd rather personally gamble one more year on him then 3+ on another coach, god forbid the next coach after two years gets fired too. I don't want to create that pattern of coach carousel, which will likely mean QB carousel too. We've seen this before, and it's not supposed to happen here.
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(11-24-2020, 11:16 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 3 quotes from unnamed players though, is hardly enough fuel for the fire.
I am so sick of these reporters using anonymous sources. If a source doesn’t want to go on record their comments shouldn’t be used. The press yields why too much power when they don’t name sources. More than likely the unnamed sources are people who have an ax to grind. I will be astonished when a player has the balls to go on record. Oh btw, wasn’t Marvin accused to play is favorites?
Let me go n record that ZT needs to be fired and I don’t support anything this dumbass does. However, I am so sick of these self righteous reporters. Shut up until you name the source. Journalism is dead
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(11-24-2020, 02:27 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: ELISE JESSEUPDATED:NOV 24, 2020ORIGINAL:NOV 24, 2020
Link isn't working. Not sure what this is. :andy:
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(11-24-2020, 02:31 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Fair enough, Wes. But I really don't think it's referring to Taylor. I think Taylor's the easy target being HC, sure.
I guess I'd rather personally gamble one more year on him then 3+ on another coach, god forbid the next coach after two years gets fired too. I don't want to create that pattern of coach carousel, which will likely mean QB carousel too. We've seen this before, and it's not supposed to happen here.
The Browns canned Freddie Kitchens after one year of dysfunction. How did that move work out?
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(11-24-2020, 02:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The Browns canned Freddie Kitchens after one year of dysfunction. How did that move work out?
Super duper cherry picking at its finest. How many coaches have they gone through, impact? i don't want to hear about the last one.
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Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Been a lot of smoke since this staff was hired. Had people quitting on the team last year before things got started. Keep blaming the players but at some point the players start to add up. We need a true leader of men coaching for us. All Zac has done is win us prizes draft picks. His one accomplishment.
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(11-24-2020, 02:36 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Super duper cherry picking at its finest.
The 49'ers fired Jim Tomusula after 1 year, how'd that work out?
The Cardinals fired Steve Wilks after 1 year, how'd that work out?
Keep in mind, these are guys that were fired after a single season. And this is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.
We're talking about firing a coach after 2 seasons. I can find you about 50 examples where moving on was, unquestionably, the right move.
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