Argument for and against Sewell.

[Whatever]

(12-18-2020, 10:55 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I would take that deal.

According to the trade value chart, Pick #3 is worth 2200 points.
The #7 overall pick is worth 1500 points.
The two second rounders (38, 54) are worth 520+360=880 points.
In total, the Bengals come out ahead on that trade even without the 2022 2nd rounder.

Yup.  You take that trade all day, especially since you can still get one of the elite prospects like Chase, Pitts, Surtain, or Parsons at 6.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-18-2020, 11:54 AM)Whatever Wrote: Yup.  You take that trade all day, especially since you can still get one of the elite prospects like Chase, Pitts, Surtain, or Parsons at 6.

I'd love for the Bengals to get Kyle Pitts.

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 11:53 AM)Synric Wrote: I know we differ on this but I hold that Slater is a guard. He will have not just sub 34 inch arms but they will be sub 33 inch like 32 3/4.

He might and it's a big might be able to hold a tackle position in the NFL but he will never be a great one. On the inside at Left Guard he has a lot better chance of being great.

Yes, we do disagree about this subject haha.

We are doing the arm length thing again?

— Geoff Schwartz (@geoffschwartz) December 8, 2020

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-18-2020, 11:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: Slater opted out this year so your first statement isn't really true. Slater's tape against Chase Young last year was better than anything Sewell put on tape simply because Sewell never played anyone close to as good. Sewell honestly has never faced an elite pass rusher and I think the fact people are glancing over that is a mistake. The one time he went against a solid rusher, but not an elite one on the edge, in Derrick Brown he struggled.

What’s your definition of struggled? I know he didn’t give up a single sack all of 2019, and iirc he only gave up a pressure or two in that Auburn game.

[*Synric*]

(12-18-2020, 12:11 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yes, we do disagree about this subject haha.

We are doing the arm length thing again?

— Geoff Schwartz (@geoffschwartz) December 8, 2020

Slater is closer to the extreme though. 

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 12:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What’s your definition of struggled? I know he didn’t give up a single sack all of 2019, and iirc he only gave up a pressure or two in that Auburn game.

Getting walked back into the pocket and negative run blocking plays. That game is why you will see people tell you he needs more lower body strength because he could not anchor well at all against Brown. 

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 12:20 PM)Synric Wrote: Slater is closer to the extreme though. 

Anything under 34 at one point was considered "extreme". It's always "extreme" until people figure out it's not really extreme. Joe Staley in the day with 33.5 was crushed for it but ended up being an elite player. It didn't hurt Slater when playing Chase Young last year, or any of his opponents really, so I am going to go out on a limb here and say he will be fine.

[*Synric*]

(12-18-2020, 12:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: Anything under 34 at one point was considered "extreme". It's always "extreme" until people figure out it's not really extreme. Joe Staley in the day with 33.5 was crushed for it but ended up being an elite player. It didn't hurt Slater when playing Chase Young last year, or any of his opponents really, so I am going to go out on a limb here and say he will be fine.

We aren't talking a quarter inch like Jonah Williams or a half inch like Joe Staley. Rashawn Slater is going to be 32 1/2 to 32 3/4. He will be closer to Billy Price than Jonah Williams.

[Whatever]

(12-18-2020, 12:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: Anything under 34 at one point was considered "extreme". It's always "extreme" until people figure out it's not really extreme. Joe Staley in the day with 33.5 was crushed for it but ended up being an elite player. It didn't hurt Slater when playing Chase Young last year, or any of his opponents really, so I am going to go out on a limb here and say he will be fine.

Young only had a 33-3/4" arm length, though, so Slater wouldn't have been at any major disadvantage in that matchup.  I don't think it's a major thing 99.9% of the time, though.

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 12:44 PM)Synric Wrote: We aren't talking a quarter inch like Jonah Williams or a half inch like Joe Staley. Rashawn Slater is going to be 32 1/2 to 32 3/4. He will be closer to Billy Price than Jonah Williams.

Right, and it hasn't inhibited his ability to play at an elite level so far in college against good rushers. So point being, it's extreme until you see them do it and it doesn't impact them. People, like Chase Young, have tried to Long Arm and Chop him and he has done well handling it. Zack Martin was used at RT against Minnesota this year and he and his 32 and 7/8 inch arms handled it fine. 

[KillerGoose]

(12-18-2020, 12:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: Getting walked back into the pocket and negative run blocking plays. That game is why you will see people tell you he needs more lower body strength because he could not anchor well at all against Brown. 

I'm not see what you're seeing. The vast majority of the game, Sewell goes against #3 (Marlon Davidson) and #91 (Nick Coe).

I am going to post timestamps of when he sees Brown (#5).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep9_ecK_HKw

1. 3:23 - They run to the left B gap right between Lemieux and Sewell. Brown takes the outside and Sewell gets his hands on him and blocks him out of the play. 10+ yard run.

2. 5:54 - Not much to see here. Oregon has Herbert roll out right and he throws a quick pass. Brown isn't involved in the play, Sewell doesn't have to do much.

3. 8:31 - They run left side B gap again. Brown does get the better of Sewell here. He doesn't make the play and misses the tackle, but he stands Sewell up and pushes him back maybe a yard or so. Overall the run goes for about 4 1/2 yards. 

So, Sewell saw Brown a total of three times (by my eyes). I did see an article saying that Brown "beat Sewell a couple of times" but I am just not seeing anything outside of these three plays where they matched up. This still lends to the argument of Sewell not really seeing an elite pass rusher. Feel free to point out anything I am missing. I am an Oregon fan so while I consider myself up to snuff specifically on Sewell, I also have to account for any fan biases I may have. 

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 12:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: Young only had a 33-3/4" arm length, though, so Slater wouldn't have been at any major disadvantage in that matchup.  I don't think it's a major thing 99.9% of the time, though.

Current Sack leaders (Edge):

TJ Watt Arm - 33 1/8 inch
Za Darius Smith - 32 5/8 inch
Tre Hendrckson - 32 inch
Myles Garrett - 35 inch
Haason Reddick - 32 inch

Other Elite Rushers:
Nick Bosa-33 inch
Joey Bosa- 33 3/8 inch
Khalil Mack- 32 3/4 inch
Chandler Jones 35 1/2 inch

So basically, most of the elite rushers in the NFL have the same or shorter arms than Chase Young who length difference didn't matter.

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 12:57 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not see what you're seeing. The vast majority of the game, Sewell goes against #3 (Marlon Davidson) and #91 (Nick Coe).

I am going to post timestamps of when he sees Brown (#5).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep9_ecK_HKw

1. 3:23 - They run to the left B gap right between Lemieux and Sewell. Brown takes the outside and Sewell gets his hands on him and blocks him out of the play. 10+ yard run.

2. 5:54 - Not much to see here. Oregon has Herbert roll out right and he throws a quick pass. Brown isn't involved in the play, Sewell doesn't have to do much.

3. 8:31 - They run left side B gap again. Brown does get the better of Sewell here. He doesn't make the play and misses the tackle, but he stands Sewell up and pushes him back maybe a yard or so. Overall the run goes for about 4 1/2 yards. 

So, Sewell saw Brown a total of three times (by my eyes). I did see an article saying that Brown "beat Sewell a couple of times" but I am just not seeing anything outside of these three plays where they matched up. This still lends to the argument of Sewell not really seeing an elite pass rusher. Feel free to point out anything I am missing. I am an Oregon fan so while I consider myself up to snuff specifically on Sewell, I also have to account for any fan biases I may have. 

I had him at 5 times in my notes, but I could have had 3 and 5 confused on a couple of them. That said Davidson had some wins that Herbert got the ball out quickly and "saved" him and Davidson is solid but not spectacular. I thought the 2nd quarter was his (Sewell's) worst quarter, I noted he got beat off the line twice there with one should be seen as pressure and the other didn't account for pressure but still technically lost the rep. That said, not a bad game for most players but people are acting as if he is Orlando Pace and I don't see it, although when I watched it back I can appreciate his second-level blocking as it is very good. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-18-2020, 11:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: Slater opted out this year so your first statement isn't really true. Slater's tape against Chase Young last year was better than anything Sewell put on tape simply because Sewell never played anyone close to as good. Sewell honestly has never faced an elite pass rusher and I think the fact people are glancing over that is a mistake. The one time he went against a solid rusher, but not an elite one on the edge, in Derrick Brown he struggled.

Watching the PAC 12 Championship Game and thinking the same thing tonight. How elite would Sewell looked as a Frosh in the SEC, ACC, or Big 10? 

Who was the last good olineman to come out of Oregon? 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-19-2020, 01:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Watching the PAC 12 Championship Game and thinking the same thing tonight. How elite would Sewell looked as a Frosh in the SEC, ACC, or Big 10? 

Who was the last good olineman to come out of Oregon? 

Probably Max Unger.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I get that there’s a big difference between the SEC and PAC 12, but that’s true of the SEC and all the other conferences. And it certainly isn’t enough of a reason for me to pass on Sewell. The PAC 12 had the 3rd most players drafted last year with 33. Which was 5 more than the ACC, and only 7 less than the BIG 10.

[Whatever]

(12-19-2020, 01:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Watching the PAC 12 Championship Game and thinking the same thing tonight. How elite would Sewell looked as a Frosh in the SEC, ACC, or Big 10? 

Who was the last good olineman to come out of Oregon? 

Tyrell Crosby was 5th round pick by the Lions in '18 and is currently their starting RT with a 64.2 PFF grade.  

[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-19-2020, 01:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Watching the PAC 12 Championship Game and thinking the same thing tonight. How elite would Sewell looked as a Frosh in the SEC, ACC, or Big 10? 

Who was the last good olineman to come out of Oregon? 

How is Austin Jackson looking for the Dolphins? He played for USC last year

[Luvnit2]

(12-19-2020, 01:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Watching the PAC 12 Championship Game and thinking the same thing tonight. How elite would Sewell looked as a Frosh in the SEC, ACC, or Big 10? 

Who was the last good olineman to come out of Oregon? 

Who cares?

Who is last good QB to come out of Oregon? Hmmm.....looks like the guy who who 3X better at throwing deep balls than the guy grabbed by us at #1 overall. 

This I know, from the time I was 18 til the time I was 22, I gained 35 lbs of muscle and I am only 6' tall and used at home work out equipment. 

I find it hilarious for looking at a young Sewell going against juniors, seniors in college and thinking he has reached his peak. The potential because of his athleticism is off the charts, there are good OT prospects and few great OT prospects like AM. I am not saying he will be a hall of fame player, but it appears a lot of experts think it.

[Luvnit2]

(12-19-2020, 02:41 AM)Whatever Wrote: Tyrell Crosby was 5th round pick by the Lions in '18 and is currently their starting RT with a 64.2 PFF grade.  

Geez.... so now we have progressed to comparing Sewell to a 5th round pick since he came out of Oregon. Makes no sense, no sense.

There is the LT that has started and played very well for the Steelers for a long time, he was a TE for Army, not an OL, a TE.

The thing I read on Huddle is Sewell is athletic enough to play TE, FB or anywhere on the DL. Thinks about the possibilities on the goal line. You line up 3 OT, one being Sewell eligible to catch a pass or crush (i read he is a great run blocker) a run block.

The idea of trading away our pick to pick up 2 or 3 extra players who likely are good, but never great football players sickens me if we can get an OT who is a stud by year #2 and getting paid a little more than Bobby Hart for 4 years.