Why do the Bengals best players almost always leave in some sort of controversy...

[muskiesfan]

Boomer wanted out as well. The obvious is answer is Mike Brown. Could you imagine what Mike Brown's winning percentage would be without Marvin Lewis? I can't blame players for wanting to leave when the Bengals average 6.4 wins a year since Mike Brown took over. That's over the course of 30 years. 6.4 wins a season. If you remove what Lewis did, it drops to around 4.3 wins a season. I can't blame anyone who doesn't want to get their brains bashed in just to go 4-12 every year because of Mike Brown.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 01:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Just like Dunlap, right?

AJ is definitely nowhere close to what he once was, but I highly doubt he’s truly as bad as we’re seeing either. There’s absolutely an effort issue, imo, and that comes down to being disgruntled with the coach and the team in general. He did have 2 good games against Cleveland and Indy earlier this season, which makes you wonder why it’s been so bad the rest of the time.

One thing why I'm not sure AJ Green is truly washed up but rather something else is going on is his average yards of separation is basically the same between 2018 and 2020.

2018 - 1.17 yards
2020 - 1.16 yards

So AJ Green is getting basically the same amount of separation that he did the last season he played. So let's compare the actual stats:
2018 (9 games) - 77 targets, 46 receptions, 694 yards, 6 TDs, 15.1 YPR, catch percentage 59.7%
2020 (12 games) - 81 targets, 35 receptions, 357 yards, 1 TD, 10.2 YPR, catch percentage 43.2%

The glaring thing that stands out is catch percentage. So let's look at catchable target rate:
2018 - 77.9% (60 targets out of 77)
2020 - 63.0% (51 targets out of 81)

It's also worth noting the QB Rating when targeted:
2018 - 110.0
2020 - 55.4

So it looks like Burrow is less accurate throwing to AJ Green compared to how Dalton was in 2018.
So let's see if Burrow is the same with Boyd, Higgins, and Sample...
Higgins - 83.1% catchable target rate, 107.0 QB Rating when targeted
Boyd - 84.5% catchable target rate, 95.6 QB Rating when targeted
Sample - 86.4% catchable target rate, 83.6 QB Rating when targeted

So it appears that the problem is not necessarily Burrow, but it's the sync between Burrow and Green, and/or the routes that Green is running in Taylor's scheme vs what he did under Lazor's scheme.

I collected these metrics between pro-football-reference.com and playerprofiler.com

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-08-2020, 10:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Controversy with the franchise? Other teams have a ring of honor, the Bengals best  players generally leave either in free agency and/or disgraced or with controversy. Some appear to force their way out. In any case, it isn't a happy ending.

Pickens
Palmer
Dillon
Spikes
Dunlap
Joseph
Ochocinco

I'm sure we could make a longer list. Who am I missing?

Man it would be nice if these guys finished their careers here and then we had a ring of honor.

Nice to see you back Pistons.

Tons of reasons, but it mostly all falls on ownership. MB and company are inept, they hang onto some players too long a lot of
the time, then they let good players go or don't offer them the dough they deserve example Whit. They don't usually pay for 
proven in their prime vets in Free Agency (although they did this last FA) etc.

The coaches also have done a poor job of judging some players who are clearly past their prime like AJ.

But Burrow wanted AJ here so I guess I cannot blame the FO on that one.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 02:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: One thing why I'm not sure AJ Green is truly washed up but rather something else is going on is his average yards of separation is basically the same between 2018 and 2020.

2018 - 1.17 yards
2020 - 1.16 yards

So AJ Green is getting basically the same amount of separation that he did the last season he played. So let's compare the actual stats:
2018 (9 games) - 77 targets, 46 receptions, 694 yards, 6 TDs, 15.1 YPR, catch percentage 59.7%
2020 (12 games) - 81 targets, 35 receptions, 357 yards, 1 TD, 10.2 YPR, catch percentage 43.2%

The glaring thing that stands out is catch percentage. So let's look at catchable target rate:
2018 - 77.9% (60 targets out of 77)
2020 - 63.0% (51 targets out of 81)

It's also worth noting the QB Rating when targeted:
2018 - 110.0
2020 - 55.4

So it looks like Burrow is less accurate throwing to AJ Green compared to how Dalton was in 2018.
So let's see if Burrow is the same with Boyd, Higgins, and Sample...
Higgins - 83.1% catchable target rate, 107.0 QB Rating when targeted
Boyd - 84.5% catchable target rate, 95.6 QB Rating when targeted
Sample - 86.4% catchable target rate, 83.6 QB Rating when targeted

So it appears that the problem is not necessarily Burrow, but it's the sync between Burrow and Green, and/or the routes that Green is running in Taylor's scheme vs what he did under Lazor's scheme.

I collected these metrics between pro-football-reference.com and playerprofiler.com

My guess...and it's only a guess is that he's afraid to get injured. I saw some throws to him and instead of jumping and going vertical in the air and high point catching it...he basically just lifted his feet off the ground and bent his knees and didn't elevate. His hands were the same distance off the ground in this 'jump' as they would have been if he didn't jump at all.

But, when you get injured...it psychologically takes a while to overcome stuff like that. These guys are very instinctive too and sometimes the thought of pain becomes instinctive too.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 04:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: My guess...and it's only a guess is that he's afraid to get injured. I saw some throws to him and instead of jumping and going vertical in the air and high point catching it...he basically just lifted his feet off the ground and bent his knees and didn't elevate. His hands were the same distance off the ground in this 'jump' as they would have been if he didn't jump at all.

But, when you get injured...it psychologically takes a while to overcome stuff like that. These guys are very instinctive too and sometimes the thought of pain becomes instinctive too.

You bring up a good topic...if a receiver doesn't go that extra mile to jump or whatever, is that considered a catchable ball in that case?
I would think a catchable ball needs to be basically in your catch radius without having to jump vertically or dive for it.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 04:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You bring up a good topic...if a receiver doesn't go that extra mile to jump or whatever, is that considered a catchable ball in that case?
I would think a catchable ball needs to be basically in your catch radius without having to jump vertically or dive for it.

And that jumping is a huge part of AJs game. He never really was a burner.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 08:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And that jumping is a huge part of AJs game. He never really was a burner.

Except when it came to coming back to the ball on an outside route that was thrown short...AJ hardly ever did that.

[Nicomo Cosca]

It’s hard to believe he still only has 1 TD through 12 games. If him and Sample both had a few each our season could have looked very different with all those close games.

[Housh]

Off the top of my head Whitworth is the only guy we let go recently that went out and had a really really good year the next year.


When we met guys go they are usually done

Can’t remember too many players killing g it that we let go

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 01:02 PM)Housh Wrote: Off the top of my head Whitworth is the only guy we let go recently that went out and had a really really good year the next year.


When we met guys go they are usually done

Can’t remember too many players killing g it that we let go

Spikes, Joseph, Justin Smith, Zeitler, Steinbach, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Palmer...I'm sure I could come up with more.

Now over the last 5 years...our drafts have been pretty bad so we haven't had the talent to lose.