Pick the next HC

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-08-2020, 06:50 PM)corpjet Wrote: My requirement is someone with HC experience and a quality list of assistant coaches ready to hire, neither of which we got with Zac.

This is the basis of my argument for Jay Gruden.  He knows a lot of people around the NFL and would have no problem building a quality NFL staff.  That point cannot be underemphasized.  

I don't know how great a football mind ZT is or not, but I know he was given a squad of turds as his assistants.  The best teams the Bengals have had recently were coached by really strong OC, DC, and of course, steady-eddy, Darrin Simmons.

I have thought about the idea of Simmons a lot as HC, and I am unsure how connected he is throughout the NFL, but I know he is very well respected.

Everyone on here is going to protest Simmons because he comes from "the old guard", although most were very happy he was retained when ZT was brought in.  I would give Simmons a very long look as I feel he is a coach that has done the most with the least talent and I love his attention to detail.  I view that as a very strong characteristic.

My other (and the one I prefer the most) choice is Jay Gruden.  He may have been a bit immature early on, but I love the guy's personality and sense of humor.  He is a no-nonsense guy when it comes to football and I believe he has a high football IQ.  I would like to see Jay as HC, with an OC that is from the college ranks.  Brady isn't ready to be a HC.  He was only the "passing game coordinator" at LSU and has no head coaching experience.  I think opening the wallet and giving Brady a longer contract with some significant dollars could lure him from Carolina.  Plus, I think the guy loves Joe Burrow.  I am more than puzzled on who I would want for DC.  I would love to see a DC that was more aggressive with blitz schemes and tried to force an offense in to mistakes rather than taking punch after punch and try to stand your ground.  We have the cover corners (when healthy) to maintain singled-up coverage and I would like to see them play much more aggressively than they have in recent years.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-09-2020, 09:25 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Intriguing that's for sure.

What scares me a little is the college mindset mentality with a guy like Brady and a QB like Burrow.  That stuff doesn't work in the NFL.  Exposing your QB like dumbass Taylor did is a recipe for disaster.  My fear is Brady would do the same because that's how they were successful at LSU.

Maybe not though.  At this point I'll take anything.  We have a great new franchise QB and I'm not exited at all about the Bengals going into next year because of the coaching situation.  How bad is that!

But he basically just took the Saints passing game to LSU.

[Montana Bengal]

(12-09-2020, 08:54 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: I guarantee he takes DC if we call, if he likes money.

To my knowledge he has yet to receive a call since 2016, when fired by the Rams.

Everyone I know likes money.  Bengals aren't going to be paying that much for a DC and he definitely doesn't need the money.

This is a little dated, but he indicates he doesn't see himself coming back as a coordinator.

https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNFL/status/1001574146575339520?s=20

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-09-2020, 07:31 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Jim Harbaugh - Ve need ze Catholic Disciplinz
Derrell Bevell - Cerebral.  Doesn't seem to be a huge rah rah or intimidator type, but could probably go toe to with the best of them in the x's and o's department.
Don Martindale - Deep rolodex.  Anthology of fart jokes.
Gary Kubiak - If he wants to be a HC again?  Duh.
Bieniemy - He'd be a risky hire, but I wouldn't hate it.  Is he like a Pats assistant in that he needs the strong background infrastructure in order to shine?  Or was he instrumental in building the prolific Mahomes offense in the first place?  

Bevell is a very interesting choice for sure.

Kubiak would be my favorite out of all that have been mentioned.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-09-2020, 10:30 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I would give Patrick Graham a serious look. He has been in the NFL for 11 years and is currently the DC and assistant head coach for the Giants. This is his first season there. The Giants defense has went from 24th in yards and 30th in points during the 2019 season to 10th in yards and 9th in points during the 2020 season. They are 5th in the league for total takeaways in 2020, compared to 30th in 2019.

Most of his tenure was in NE as a defensive coach (LB coach, DL, defensive assistant) and he helped develop Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich (Rob started seeing more play time in 2010, the year after Graham arrived in NE. From that point on until Graham left NE, Rob logged 41 sacks over six seasons), Jamie Collins (had arguably his two most productive seasons in 2014-2015, when Graham was the LB coach in NE).

Graham was with the Giants in 2016 and their defense was very stout against the run. This is when Damon Harrison broke out as a big time run stuffer, making the Pro-Bowl.

You can point to his one year in Miami as a negative, as they were the 30th ranked defense last year but they were also very young and Graham left because NY requested to hire him on as a promotion. Flores wanted to keep him.

I just saw an article mentioning this guy as a potential candidate.

[BengalChris]

(12-08-2020, 05:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Which is interesting because while I wasn't very old when Wyche was the HC, I recall clips of him being very vocal and fiery. You'd think the organization would want to get a HC like Wyche.

That was under Paul Brown, not Mike Brown. Big, big difference.

 

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 12:40 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That was under Paul Brown, not Mike Brown. Big, big difference.

 

Yes, I know that. But Mike Brown was the Assistant GM 1968-1990, so he got to see all the success that Paul Brown had with Forrest Gregg and Same Wyche. You'd think Mike Brown would have seen that success and wanted to imitate it from observation.

Perhaps Wyche clashed with Mike through the years and Mike didn't want to have that kind of pushback.

[Schmitbuck]

Eric Bieniemy
Robert Saleh
Matt Campbell
Jeff Hafley (HC @ BC)

[BengalChris]

(12-09-2020, 12:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, I know that. But Mike Brown was the Assistant GM 1968-1990, so he got to see all the success that Paul Brown had with Forrest Gregg and Same Wyche. You'd think Mike Brown would have seen that success and wanted to imitate it from observation.

Perhaps Wyche clashed with Mike through the years and Mike didn't want to have that kind of pushback.

If I'm convinced of any one thing it is that Mike Brown was completely incapable of learning anything from his father. Paul drove innovation in the NFL, Mike has resisted all change. You just cannot get more opposite than that.

 

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 01:05 PM)BengalChris Wrote: If I'm convinced of any one thing it is that Mike Brown was completely incapable of learning anything from his father. Paul drove innovation in the NFL, Mike has resisted all change. You just cannot get more opposite than that.

 

I doubt he lacks the capability, as he graduated from Dartmouth and then Harvard Law. The guy is intelligent.
I think it comes down to personal preference and stubbornness on what he thinks is needed and how he wants to do things.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-08-2020, 03:55 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: If - and it's a big if - Zac is let go at the end of the year, the Bengals will be searching for another head coach. Here's a list of names to choose from. Pick 5 guys you would want interviewed to be the new Bengals head coach. Once there's enough choices, we'll figure out the top 5 and then have a poll to pick who we would want as the new HC.

Eric Bieniemy (OC Chiefs)
Arthur Smith (OC Titans)
Greg Roman (OC Ravens)
Nick Sirianni (OC Colts)
Brian Daboll (OC Bills)
Brian Schottenheimer (OC Seahawks)
Nick Sirianni (OC Colts)
Jay Gruden (OC Jags)
Brian Daboll (OC Bills)
Byron Leftwich (OC Bucs)
Joe Brady (OC Panthers)
Harold Goodwin (AHC Bucs)
Duce Staley (AHC Eagles)
Dan Campbell (AHC Saints)
Jim Caldwell (Former HC Lions, Colts)

Robert Saleh (DC 49ers
Matt Eberflus (DC Colts)
Dennis Allen (DC Saints)
Wink Martindale (DC Ravens)
Raheem Morris (IntHC Falcons)
Steve Spagnuolo (DC Chiefs)
Jack Del Rio (DC WFT)
Todd Bowles (DC Bucs)
Patrick Graham (DC Giants)
Brandon Staley (DC Rams)
Leslie Frazier (DC Bills)
Vance Joseph (DC Cards)
Andre Patterson (Co-DC Vikes)
Dan Quinn (Former HC Falcons)

Jim Harbaugh (HC Michigan)
Pat Fitzgerald (HC Northwestern)
Matt Campbell (HC Iowa St)

A lot of great names on that list but I think my faves would be Brian Daboll (who you have twice on the list here BTW Holic), Wink Martindale, Del Rio, Dan Quinn, Harbaugh, Arthur Smith, Saleh, Eberflus or Beiniemy.

If we go with an older coach I still would love Wade Phillips if he isn't picked up somewhere else.

[CJD]

I'd really like a defensive minded head coach, honestly. I know that's kind of dated thinking since the NFL is all about offense, but I think Burrow will be a second offensive coach on the field, so I think we can get away with having a defensive mind leading the team.

With that in mind, I really like Martindale and Eberflus.

I don't know if Wink would come to Cincinnati (as he is coming from Baltimore) and I've heard he's kind of abrasive, like when he bitched about not getting a shutout against us because of a garbage time field goal, but I think he has the chops to really hold players to account and obviously knows how to properly gameplan a defense.

Eberflus is a young(ish) coach who actually has a wealth of experience (note: the way you properly hire a first time head coach) and is leading an impressive defense in Indy.

But, honestly, 99% of the coaches you listed would be a clear upgrade.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-09-2020, 03:36 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'd really like a defensive minded head coach, honestly. I know that's kind of dated thinking since the NFL is all about offense, but I think Burrow will be a second offensive coach on the field, so I think we can get away with having a defensive mind leading the team.

With that in mind, I really like Martindale and Eberflus.

I don't know if Wink would come to Cincinnati (as he is coming from Baltimore) and I've heard he's kind of abrasive, like when he bitched about not getting a shutout against us because of a garbage time field goal, but I think he has the chops to really hold players to account and obviously knows how to properly gameplan a defense.

Eberflus is a young(ish) coach who actually has a wealth of experience (note: the way you properly hire a first time head coach) and is leading an impressive defense in Indy.

But, honestly, 99% of the coaches you listed would be a clear upgrade.

Yeah, need to put Eberflus on my list for sure. What would be nice about having a defensive coach again is he wouldn't be 
calling the Offense like Taylor has been doing and wrongfully so. We would have a fresh mind on the Offensive side of the 
ball which is something we drastically need along with new coaches all across the board.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-09-2020, 09:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Let me get this straight.

If current Bengal players who know Taylor, who he is and what he is about support him as head coach then you will believe them and support keeping taylor as our head coach?

Apples and oranges.

I would not because Taylor now has a track record that i can see clearly with my eyes. 

Before the hire, i believed what was said about him and what he was saying. Wrong on all counts. 

*that is how you answer a question. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-09-2020, 03:00 AM)Whatever Wrote: Being fair, Zac Taylor has said a lot of nice things about a lot of crappy players and coaches this year. Hell, McVay said a lot of nice things about Zac Taylor.  Head coaches who don't say good things about their assistants in the media have problems getting quality assistants.

People in the KC organization endorsing Bienemy is like people in the Bengals organization endorsing Bobby Hart.  All it really means is that he hasn't done a bad enough job or pissed anyone off enough for them to publicly bury him in the media.

That's the whole point i was making. EB as an NFL HC is unknown (as an aside, Bobby Hart is well known so the comparison is a bit off).

If it's unknown, i would expect Fred to trust professionals over...regular people (including himself). At least that's the way he's gone in the past, iirc (trusting players and coaches over fans on a message board/analysts).

[Big Boss]

I'd like a defensive-minded head coach. Joe Burrow with a competent OC can handle the offensive side of the ball.

[kevin]

FIRST, I wouldn't fire Zac after 2 seasons, one being a COVID World Pandemic as USA has never seen and no preseason and few practices.

But, if Zac was fired, ERIC BIENIEMY. With what he does with Chiefs, bring Bengal Bieniemy back as Head Coach. He IS going to be a Head Coach on an NFL Team in 2021.

But again, I wouldn't judge Zac on 1st year of 2019 taking over awful team Marvin fired from, and I would not judge him on 2nd season of COVID. I do judge Mike Brown Family and semi GM Tobin and they have all stunk up the place for years. THAT is where I lay Bengals losing, The Awful Front Office of fewest scouts in NFL. Paul Brown knew football, they know the lawyer end and that is all they know. No NFL team would want Tobin who wasn't all that hot in Arena League Semi Pro. If Tobin got Fired today, no NFL team would ever hire the slug. He makes a poor excuse for a GM, so bad they don't even call him a GM.

[Bengalholic]

If Zac had a better record right now - like say Brian Flores who has pretty much all the same excuses and has won 13 games - would you still be saying we can't judge him?

[DesertBengal]

Unless Zim comes available, my top choices for head coach would be:

Matt Eberflus
Robert Salah
Arthur Smith

I also wouldn’t be apposed to seeing Hue com back as the OC paired with either Eberflus or Salah. Hue has shown he’s not a head coach, but I think he can still be a good OC.

In order for a change to happen, the first step is the FO admitting they were wrong about Taylor. This front office has a problem admitting their mistakes… eg. they would rather trot out Ogbuehi year after year, rather than admit they whiffed and try to fix the problem. Now we're sitting here years later with same o-line issues

[*ochocincos*]

I feel like we have enough threads on this exact topic that we didn't need to have yet another one.

With that said, I wouldn't mind Bieniemy, but I've cooled on him compared to 2 years ago.
I'd interview him again, but I have some other guys higher on my list.

Matt Eberflus is high on my list. Jim Harbaugh is another if he's fired from Michigan.
I also like Arthur Smith from TEN. He's gotten to see the value of having a good OL, running game, and defense can bring. He helped turn around Tannehill, who many wrote off to never become a starting QB again after leaving MIA.

I also hope whatever HC is brought in will actually relinquish playcalling to their coordinators and not try to play multiple roles, especially if that HC is a first-time HC.

Stop making excuses for Taylor btw.
The same "awful" team that he took over from Lewis had 6 wins in 2018. If Taylor was good, he should have increased from that number, not dropped down to just 2 wins.
And every coach has had to go through COVID limitations. Other coaches who are in their first or second season have been able to handle it just as well or better than Taylor.
The fact is the Bengals have the fewest wins of any team since Taylor came on board, and the only ones to blame are him and his staff.