Trask Versus Fields or Wilson?? Or Chase or Parsons?

[*ochocincos*]

(12-20-2020, 10:02 PM)Whatever Wrote: They drafted Mekhi Becton and signed George Fant this year, so it's certainly not a slam dunk that they go in that direction.

Becton has played well, but Fant really hasn't been great.
He also only has a $2 mill dead cap for 2021 and would free up $7.4 mill in cap if released.

If the Jets feel they can get a QB elsewhere, they could take Sewell to bookend with Becton and have one of the most promising OT tandems in the league. They may have the most cap space in the league next year, so they could go after Dak Prescott in FA or trade a pick for Carson Wentz. Or if they are happy with their OTs (for at least a year), they could get a veteran QB and take Chase since they have terrible receiving threats.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-20-2020, 10:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1st off: Jets fans are pissed

secondly: I think this brings Ja'Marr into #2 talks. The Jets have the most promising young LT in the game. 

I don't think it does.  There are several WRs that fall into the #1 discussion.  I would be shocked if the Jets stay there and take a WR with that pick.  Either they take Fiellds or Sewell or they are moving down to build the roster with additional picks.

I don't think Chase is going to be the #1 WR off the board.  Not playing this year probably hurt his stock more than any of the other top guys that opted out.

[Whatever]

(12-21-2020, 12:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Becton has played well, but Fant really hasn't been great.
He also only has a $2 mill dead cap for 2021 and would free up $7.4 mill in cap if released.

If the Jets feel they can get a QB elsewhere, they could take Sewell to bookend with Becton and have one of the most promising OT tandems in the league. They may have the most cap space in the league next year, so they could go after Dak Prescott in FA or trade a pick for Carson Wentz. Or if they are happy with their OTs (for at least a year), they could get a veteran QB and take Chase since they have terrible receiving threats.

Yup.  The Jets can go any number of different ways.  

[KillerGoose]

Fields' playoff game is going to be huge for him. I wouldn't call him a lock as the #2 prospect. His Indiana and Northwestern tape is really pretty bad (Northwestern is horrid). I think he is a better prospect than Haskins was, but he displays some of the same issues. He really panics under pressure and he has this habit to try to do too much when he is danger. There were multiple instances of a defender being on him and he just tries to chuck it down the field and it results in an interception. Trask and Mac Jones have the ability to really, really bump their stock up this bowl season if they come out red hot. Fields is going to need a big game against Clemson imo to remain the #2 QB.

[Jpoore]

(12-21-2020, 11:05 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I don’t think Fields a lock but I don’t think Trask is going that high either.
Fields looked terrible vs Northwestern and I think you could see some thinking Wilson from BYU is the #2 QB.

I don’t think the Jets will go OT again but I don’t blame their fans for being mad. That win may have cost them a franchise changing QB.

U can’t just dismiss the fact that osu was down 30 players against northwestern.

(12-21-2020, 12:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: There's no guarantee of that.

Remember the 2018 draft? For most of the offseason prior to that draft, Sam Darnold was the "lock" to be 1st overall.
Mayfield was climbing, but he wasn't even the consensus 2nd QB in that class.

Looking at this year, Trask actually has a higher passing efficiency rating than Fields (186.7 vs 174.6).
Zach Wilson has a higher PER than both of them (195.4).
And as much as it may be an overreaction, Fields did not play well against Northwestern. Given it will be one of the last games he will play in college, it may cause some doubt for some teams. It would help Fields to put together a really good game against Clemson in the CFP semifinal to show that the Northwestern game was an oddity. If he performs poorly against Clemson, it could lead teams to start thinking he's in the same tier as Wilson, Trask, and Lance.

As long as the team isn’t decimated by Covid he’ll play well. He had a bad game against nw, mainly due to him missing 30 players. Wrs were running wro routes no chemistry etc etc.

(12-21-2020, 12:09 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would love a wager, I say no way Fields is a lock as #2 QB in the draft. A lock means, not even worth a discussion. There are 3 QB's that will be in the discussion, Fields, Trask and Wilson with a 4th from a small school possibly as well named Trey Lance. I think 4 of the 5 go in first 16 picks of the draft.

I think GM's look at Haskins out of Ohio State and become very afraid. Haskins was supposed to be a can't miss QB, he looks lost.

Haskins was different. He was coming from Meyers full no need to read a defense mesh/all underneath offensive system. Fields is coming from a multiple read pro style offense.

(12-21-2020, 02:12 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Fields' playoff game is going to be huge for him. I wouldn't call him a lock as the #2 prospect. His Indiana and Northwestern tape is really pretty bad (Northwestern is horrid). I think he is a better prospect than Haskins was, but he displays some of the same issues. He really panics under pressure and he has this habit to try to do too much when he is danger. There were multiple instances of a defender being on him and he just tries to chuck it down the field and it results in an interception. Trask and Mac Jones have the ability to really, really bump their stock up this bowl season if they come out red hot. Fields is going to need a big game against Clemson imo to remain the #2 QB.

Fields was down 30 players against nw. U can’t ignore that. Struggles under pressure? By what metric Bc he is the best qb in the country under pressure per pff. Fields won’t struggle against Clemson provided he has his players back. He holds it a touch to long that’s the only gripe.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-20-2020, 02:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I only bring it up because we really need 2 QB's go #1 and #2 or a WR or defensive player so we can get Sewell.

I was worried watching Fields look very bad yesterday in the limelight against Nonwestern. He did not look like a top 15 pick yesterday, but good news is the big strong armed Florida QB looked very good against a very good Alabama team, has played tougher competition (better athletes in SEC overall).

I think if Trask has a great bowl game and does well at combine, he may be the #2 player taken by the Jags (Florida QB staying home). I know it was one game for Fields, but he was playing in a windless dome making poor throws and poor decisions all day long. Oh, I am also not an Ohio State hater, they are my college team, but if not playing my 2 favs (ND and Cincinnati), I root for them.

Thoughts??

I think the current beliefs of Justin Fields are way overblown.  The kid is incredibly mobile, elusive, and downright fast.  He has great touch and anticipation, and stays cool in the pocket.  This year's OSU team would be destroyed by last year's team.  The defense from last year was giving them more possessions and had less pressure on Fields.  

He won't go #1 overall, but I would be willing to wager (and might, if such a prop exists) that he is the 2nd QB off the board and will most likely be a top 5, or even top 3 pick.

I may be the minority here, but Fields has faced a MUCH tougher series of defenses than Lawrence and Lawrence struggled THROWING the ball against OSU and without some really poor officiating and his big runs, he loses that game.  He didn't look good against LSU in the title game, either.  I am not saying I wouldn't take Lawrence with the #1 overall pick, but I don't believe the gap between them is that great.  

I don't really know much about the BYU QB, but the Florida QB will likely be targeted by pitt, as they clearly have to replace Piggy.  

[Luvnit2]

(12-25-2020, 02:54 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think the current beliefs of Justin Fields are way overblown.  The kid is incredibly mobile, elusive, and downright fast.  He has great touch and anticipation, and stays cool in the pocket.  This year's OSU team would be destroyed by last year's team.  The defense from last year was giving them more possessions and had less pressure on Fields.  

He won't go #1 overall, but I would be willing to wager (and might, if such a prop exists) that he is the 2nd QB off the board and will most likely be a top 5, or even top 3 pick.

I may be the minority here, but Fields has faced a MUCH tougher series of defenses than Lawrence and Lawrence struggled THROWING the ball against OSU and without some really poor officiating and his big runs, he loses that game.  He didn't look good against LSU in the title game, either.  I am not saying I wouldn't take Lawrence with the #1 overall pick, but I don't believe the gap between them is that great.  

I don't really know much about the BYU QB, but the Florida QB will likely be targeted by pitt, as they clearly have to replace Piggy.  

Lawrence is a can't miss if healthy QB. The guy s 6'6" so can see over the tall DL, he is mobile and tough.

Fields is also a great athlete, but while height is OK, it is not above normal for an NFL QB. Fields and OSU QB's always have 3 to 5 speed WR, 2 to 3 great route runners and speed, a great OL and great RB's. Burrow dis also his last year, Lawrence had had some very good skill payers, but I would take the OSU skill players over Clemson. I am looking forward to see what both of the QB's do in the Clemson/OSU game, but Fields is auditioning to be 2nd best QB taken in the draft, unless Lawrence stays in college.

As far as defenses, the Big Ten defenses have slipped in recent years. This year Clemson with Lawrence just dominated a very good ND defense.

In time, we will see who QB #2 is, t very well could be Fields, but a lock he i not, not yet anyway.

As for this thread, looks like we draft #5 or higher now so Sewell no longer an option for us. I would not be surprised if Jets grab him anyway with #2 pick. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-27-2020, 11:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Lawrence is a can't miss if healthy QB. The guy s 6'6" so can see over the tall DL, he is mobile and tough.

Fields is also a great athlete, but while height is OK, it is not above normal for an NFL QB. Fields and OSU QB's always have 3 to 5 speed WR, 2 to 3 great route runners and speed, a great OL and great RB's. Burrow dis also his last year, Lawrence had had some very good skill payers, but I would take the OSU skill players over Clemson. I am looking forward to see what both of the QB's do in the Clemson/OSU game, but Fields is auditioning to be 2nd best QB taken in the draft, unless Lawrence stays in college.

As far as defenses, the Big Ten defenses have slipped in recent years. This year Clemson with Lawrence just dominated a very good ND defense.

In time, we will see who QB #2 is, t very well could be Fields, but a lock he i not, not yet anyway.

As for this thread, looks like we draft #5 or higher now so Sewell no longer an option for us. I would not be surprised if Jets grab him anyway with #2 pick. 

There is actually a very small list of QBs that have been successful that are over 6'5".  He may look tough in a college game running against an ACC college defense, but the NFL will destroy his long, lanky body if he chooses to run like he has at Clemson.  And Fields is listed at 6'3".  I would be surprised if that isn't at least average height. He is the same height as Mahommes and taller than the likes of Rogers, Brees, and Wilson.  Brady is 6'4" if you thought I was cherry picking.  

I'm sorry, but I will not call the ND defense "very good".  You have to show a top 25 team with a good offense that they shut down.  Completely overrated.  Big Ten defenses might have slipped THIS year but that OSU defense last year was insane.   The Indiana defense, the Northwestern Defense, and even Iowa's defense was tough after a poor start.  

This all sounds like I am pushing Fields above Lawrence, and I am not doing that.  But the distance is not the light year's the media is making it out to be.  Look at how Mitch Trubisky was taken above Deshawn Watson.  There were a number of knocks on him as a QB.  Not so much now.  Fields will be a top notch QB and I would be willing to wager that he is the 2nd QB taken.  

As far as if we get Sewell or Chase, etc., I understand how perfect it sounded that Sewell was BPA and was a huge need for the Bengals.  In all honesty, I didn't really like the idea of moving Jonah.  And I am not sure how much I would like Sewell at RT.  These things have a way of working out.  We will still get a first round talent at RT and leave Jonah at LT.  They will get a speed option at WR, and they will beef up the interior of the offensive and defensive lines.  

It's going to be fun.  

[Whatever]

(12-28-2020, 03:15 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is actually a very small list of QBs that have been successful that are over 6'5".  He may look tough in a college game running against an ACC college defense, but the NFL will destroy his long, lanky body if he chooses to run like he has at Clemson.  And Fields is listed at 6'3".  I would be surprised if that isn't at least average height. He is the same height as Mahommes and taller than the likes of Rogers, Brees, and Wilson.  Brady is 6'4" if you thought I was cherry picking.  

I'm sorry, but I will not call the ND defense "very good".  You have to show a top 25 team with a good offense that they shut down.  Completely overrated.  Big Ten defenses might have slipped THIS year but that OSU defense last year was insane.   The Indiana defense, the Northwestern Defense, and even Iowa's defense was tough after a poor start.  

This all sounds like I am pushing Fields above Lawrence, and I am not doing that.  But the distance is not the light year's the media is making it out to be.  Look at how Mitch Trubisky was taken above Deshawn Watson.  There were a number of knocks on him as a QB.  Not so much now.  Fields will be a top notch QB and I would be willing to wager that he is the 2nd QB taken.  

As far as if we get Sewell or Chase, etc., I understand how perfect it sounded that Sewell was BPA and was a huge need for the Bengals.  In all honesty, I didn't really like the idea of moving Jonah.  And I am not sure how much I would like Sewell at RT.  These things have a way of working out.  We will still get a first round talent at RT and leave Jonah at LT.  They will get a speed option at WR, and they will beef up the interior of the offensive and defensive lines.  

It's going to be fun.  

You realize that the only 100 yard rushing game in Lawrence's college career was against that "insane" Ohio State defense last year, right?

[Luvnit2]

(12-28-2020, 03:15 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is actually a very small list of QBs that have been successful that are over 6'5".  He may look tough in a college game running against an ACC college defense, but the NFL will destroy his long, lanky body if he chooses to run like he has at Clemson.  And Fields is listed at 6'3".  I would be surprised if that isn't at least average height. He is the same height as Mahommes and taller than the likes of Rogers, Brees, and Wilson.  Brady is 6'4" if you thought I was cherry picking.  

I'm sorry, but I will not call the ND defense "very good".  You have to show a top 25 team with a good offense that they shut down.  Completely overrated.  Big Ten defenses might have slipped THIS year but that OSU defense last year was insane.   The Indiana defense, the Northwestern Defense, and even Iowa's defense was tough after a poor start.  

This all sounds like I am pushing Fields above Lawrence, and I am not doing that.  But the distance is not the light year's the media is making it out to be.  Look at how Mitch Trubisky was taken above Deshawn Watson.  There were a number of knocks on him as a QB.  Not so much now.  Fields will be a top notch QB and I would be willing to wager that he is the 2nd QB taken.  

As far as if we get Sewell or Chase, etc., I understand how perfect it sounded that Sewell was BPA and was a huge need for the Bengals.  In all honesty, I didn't really like the idea of moving Jonah.  And I am not sure how much I would like Sewell at RT.  These things have a way of working out.  We will still get a first round talent at RT and leave Jonah at LT.  They will get a speed option at WR, and they will beef up the interior of the offensive and defensive lines.  

It's going to be fun.  

Have you watched Lawrence play? I have watched almost every game the kid has played and I say kid because he is young. Hs lanky body will develop into a 240 Lb. QB which is heavier than a lot of LB's, heavier than safeties and CB's will be giving up 40 lbs., oh and he is very fast as well. I have seen him throw at least 5 blocks, he did not miss and knocked LBers to the ground. He is a football player and probably could be Brian Urlacher type LB if he were not a QB.

Time will tell ow good Fields will be or Lawrence will be, but I disagree about the gap. I think it is like Prescott over a Dalton, both are starting NFL QB's, but one is top 5 to 10 and other is 15 to 20. But in today's NFL, that is a big difference. Trubisky was not a top ranked QB the year prior to being drafted and only shot up boards after his final college season ended. Lawrence may have been top 5 in 2020 draft, a draft with very good QB prospects like Burrow, Tua and Herbert.

I saw today Haskins, he 15th pick in the draft in 2019 was cut. I think that hurts Fields. But I could be wrong, it could be the next Mahommes who was not even a top 9 draft pick. Bears picked Trubisky 2nd in 2017. Bengals picked Ross #9 and then Chiefs spend draft capital and trade up to #10 to nab Mahommes. One of the best draft decisions in NFL history while Bengals made one of worst decisions in history, Chiefs had  Alex Smith and us Dalton. Both winners, but Reid figured out Smith was not the answer to win it all, groomed him for a year and then got rid of Smith. Bengals missed it as did others including the Bears. Some very bad top 9 picks in 2017 draft. Some good ones too like Garrett and McCaffrey. That is why drafts are a crap shoot, sometimes even in top 9 picks.

[Jpoore]

(12-28-2020, 03:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: You realize that the only 100 yard rushing game in Lawrence's college career was against that "insane" Ohio State defense last year, right?

Just to clarify that was essentially on one play.

[Whatever]

(12-29-2020, 01:53 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Just to clarify that was essentially on one play.

Uh, no.  A little over half of it came on one play.  But seriously, I don't see how people can say stuff like "He'd never be able to run against Big 10 defenses" when he went against the best defense in the conference and exposed them with his legs.

BTW, how's your boy Haskins doing?

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2020, 10:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Have you watched Lawrence play? I have watched almost every game the kid has played and I say kid because he is young. Hs lanky body will develop into a 240 Lb. QB which is heavier than a lot of LB's, heavier than safeties and CB's will be giving up 40 lbs., oh and he is very fast as well. I have seen him throw at least 5 blocks, he did not miss and knocked LBers to the ground. He is a football player and probably could be Brian Urlacher type LB if he were not a QB.

Time will tell ow good Fields will be or Lawrence will be, but I disagree about the gap. I think it is like Prescott over a Dalton, both are starting NFL QB's, but one is top 5 to 10 and other is 15 to 20. But in today's NFL, that is a big difference. Trubisky was not a top ranked QB the year prior to being drafted and only shot up boards after his final college season ended. Lawrence may have been top 5 in 2020 draft, a draft with very good QB prospects like Burrow, Tua and Herbert.

I saw today Haskins, he 15th pick in the draft in 2019 was cut. I think that hurts Fields. But I could be wrong, it could be the next Mahommes who was not even a top 9 draft pick. Bears picked Trubisky 2nd in 2017. Bengals picked Ross #9 and then Chiefs spend draft capital and trade up to #10 to nab Mahommes. One of the best draft decisions in NFL history while Bengals made one of worst decisions in history, Chiefs had  Alex Smith and us Dalton. Both winners, but Reid figured out Smith was not the answer to win it all, groomed him for a year and then got rid of Smith. Bengals missed it as did others including the Bears. Some very bad top 9 picks in 2017 draft. Some good ones too like Garrett and McCaffrey. That is why drafts are a crap shoot, sometimes even in top 9 picks.

Give me a break.  He didn't plow over the two great defenses he has seen:  LSU and OSU.  He padded a lot of stats playing teams like Syracuse, Pitt, etc.  I have seen him play and I have seen him struggle.  Did you watch the National Championship game last year?  Completely outplayed by Burrow, and Clemson had a much higher ranked defense.  He is a great athlete, but I think he is way overrated as an NFL QB prospect.  If he goes to Jax, I guarantee you will see what I mean next year when he doesn't have 10 guys surrounding him that are better than the 11 guys on the other side of the ball.  

As far as Mahommes goes, yes...he is incredible, but it took someone like Reid that would have the wide-open passing attack that they have like he played in college.  I don't think Mahommes has near the success playing for Cincy under Marvin.  

[SunsetBengal]

Trask: 3 Ints and benched in Cotton Bowl

[Luvnit2]

(12-30-2020, 11:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Trask:  3 Ints and benched in Cotton Bowl

No doubt, his stock went way down and maybe to round #2.

Keep in mind, I want  all QB's drafted before we draft, we don't need a QB, but lots of other needs. So, I hope Fields lights up Clemson and Lawrence lights up OSU and a bunch of QB's have great NFL combine.

This guys (QB"s and others) go up and down like a yo-yo and bad games on a National stage only bad news for us if they play QB.