Coaching props and rants!

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-16-2022, 10:29 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not saying Zac didn't make mistakes, he did. Doesn't mean he's not a good coach. 

 

(03-03-2022, 07:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This. Zac will learn from these mistakes as well being that he is young. 

(03-06-2022, 08:20 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: Also agree.  I posted several times during the preseason that  I advocated giving Zac this season before concluding our evaluation of him, and if we would’ve known we were going to the super bowl, I doubt I would’ve had so many arguing against it.   I certainly disagreed with some things, notably the misuse of Perine at times at the expense of Mixon, but we have a lot to be optimistic about from a personnel and coaching standpoint.

(03-07-2022, 02:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it went better than I expected. It was put up or shut up time for Zac this last season and he put up regardless of a few
mistakes. I was one of the guys saying we needed to make the Playoffs and win a game or we should move on. We ended up 
winning our first playoff game in 30+ years and winning 2 road Playoff games something no other Bengal HC has ever done.

The strides Zac and Lou specifically made in one year coaching wise was staggering. Expect more growth this year as well.

These were the comments I was referring to. Waiting for the coach to catch up to the team. I've commented many times about drafting three LBs that were captains . . . I like the culture change . .  . I ####ing hate his play calling and think he's in over his head trying to run an NFL sideline and call every single snap at 38 years old. His QB is dragging him up a hill at this point. He basically admitted he's still on the job training play caller after his sphincter tightened up at the end of the OT loss to the Niners. Sure, Joe says the right things now . . . so did Palmer when he was here. 

(03-15-2022, 11:19 AM)Wyche Wrote:  It's also possible that the organization is catching up to Zac Taylor's mindset.

The front office? Maybe, but, imo, the team(ie: Joe) has passed him since around the Denver game.
With Joe Burrow 12-13-1 in the regular season - 15-14-1 overall
Without Joe Burrow 4-19 in the regular season - 16-32-1 in the regular season overall

And Joe may be saying the right things but I did remember Chase mentioning that it sure would be nice to move inside every now and then to see different coverages. But, I guess Zac's plan is to stick him against a teams #1 CB on every snap.<----period. I watch teams get their #1 WR, like oh let's say Cooper Kupp, on Logan Wilson or Vonn Bell anytime they want, but Zac either can't do it, won't do it or forgets to do it(like forgetting to call a screen play in a Super Bowl).

If he gave up play calling, I would like just about everything else he's done here. I'm still not happy with their . . . * ahem* . . . ATTEMPT at fixing the O-line last year coming off of a season with a QB with a shredded knee and a Center with a late season knee injury.

FA - Riley Rieff
Well, that's not a lot . . . lucky for us, the draft is stacked at O-line in 2021
2021 Draft - 1 pick out of the 1st 5 picks, a late 4th developmental Tackle and a Center that looks a long way away from being a legitimate backup.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(03-16-2022, 09:25 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Then you're an idiot. Merv took over a team that was 2-14 and went 8-8 his first 2 years before leading Cincy to its first winning record in over 20 years. There wasn't much change in roster from that 2-14 team to ML's 8-8 team. 

So, please enlighten us in how a team that went 2-14 and made only a few changes in its starting lineup somehow won 4 times as many games the next season with a new coach but it was NOT because of the new coach.

I'm not the idiot that thinks Zac is a good coach, yet in the same post say that Joe Burrow is not elite. Please enlighten us with explaining that insane BS.

Wasn't much change in roster? Tory James, John Thornton and Kevin Hardy were not regular yearly FA signings by the Bengals. Marvin got more FA money than any previous HC in Cincinnati and Taylor has recieved way more than ML.

And how did Dick LeBeau get involved in all of this? You need me to detail how Marvin Lewis is better as a HC than Dick LeBeau in the Zac Taylor thread? You are aware that Marvin coached beyond 2005, right? Do you have any evidence of Lewis out coaching anyone other than the one time Bill Parcels was bullshitting the press to cover the pathetic play of Quincy Carter?

[Dr.Z]

(03-16-2022, 02:34 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  






These were the comments I was referring to. Waiting for the coach to catch up to the team. I've commented many times about drafting three LBs that were captains . . . I like the culture change . .  . I ####ing hate his play calling and think he's in over his head trying to run an NFL sideline and call every single snap at 38 years old. His QB is dragging him up a hill at this point. He basically admitted he's still on the job training play caller after his sphincter tightened up at the end of the OT loss to the Niners. Sure, Joe says the right things now . . . so did Palmer when he was here. 

The front office? Maybe, but, imo, the team(ie: Joe) has passed him since around the Denver game.
With Joe Burrow 12-13-1 in the regular season - 15-14-1 overall
Without Joe Burrow 4-19 in the regular season - 16-32-1 in the regular season overall

And Joe may be saying the right things but I did remember Chase mentioning that it sure would be nice to move inside every now and then to see different coverages. But, I guess Zac's plan is to stick him against a teams #1 CB on every snap.<----period. I watch teams get their #1 WR, like oh let's say Cooper Kupp, on Logan Wilson or Vonn Bell anytime they want, but Zac either can't do it, won't do it or forgets to do it(like forgetting to call a screen play in a Super Bowl).

If he gave up play calling, I would like just about everything else he's done here. I'm still not happy with their . . . * ahem* . . . ATTEMPT at fixing the O-line last year coming off of a season with a QB with a shredded knee and a Center with a late season knee injury.

FA - Riley Rieff
Well, that's not a lot . . . lucky for us, the draft is stacked at O-line in 2021
2021 Draft - 1 pick out of the 1st 5 picks, a late 4th developmental Tackle and a Center that looks a long way away from being a legitimate backup.

I respect your opinion FSV, and actually not 100% convinced you are wrong, but I hesitate to completely evaluate the play calling with such a poor line.  It might sound like an excuse, but a play has to develop post-snap, and time is the variable that allows it to do so.  Even an average line would make me feel more comfortable reaching some sort of conclusion, but not "record-breaking sack allowed" line.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-17-2022, 01:50 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: I respect your opinion FSV, and actually not 100% convinced you are wrong, but I hesitate to completely evaluate the play calling with such a poor line.  It might sound like an excuse, but a play has to develop post-snap, and time is the variable that allows it to do so.  Even an average line would make me feel more comfortable reaching some sort of conclusion, but not "record-breaking sack allowed" line.

Yes, a lot of people are forgetting, or not understanding that aspect.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

I understand that the last play in the Super Bowl wasn't the first time he called a 4th and short play where almost everyone was running 8-10 yard routes and the play got blown up before anyone turned around for the pass.

If you know your line sucks, call plays that don't take so long to develop. Again, it's the same thing. If he gave up play calling, I wouldn't have a problem with his coaching except for their half assed attempt at fixing the O-line. It was a glaring weakness before he got here. Everything else by him is fine.

[Soonerpeace]

I personally know a NFL head coach and NFL OC they both recently told me that Taylor’s schemes are very strong and a lot of teams looking at them. Absolute truth here. They say the schemes absolutely saved this team and steered them to the Super Bowl with a total crap OL which is totally backed up by the metrics

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-16-2022, 02:34 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  
These were the comments I was referring to. Waiting for the coach to catch up to the team. I've commented many times about drafting three LBs that were captains . . . I like the culture change . .  . I ####ing hate his play calling and think he's in over his head trying to run an NFL sideline and call every single snap at 38 years old. His QB is dragging him up a hill at this point. He basically admitted he's still on the job training play caller after his sphincter tightened up at the end of the OT loss to the Niners. Sure, Joe says the right things now . . . so did Palmer when he was here. 

You act like a young HC learning is a bad thing. It would be different if he didn't make major strides this last season and won 
our first playoff game in 30+ years and our first 2 road playoff wins ever as a HC...

This was one hell of a playoff resume to build off of with a young team the FO, him and the coaches put together.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(03-22-2022, 05:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You act like a young HC learning is a bad thing. It would be different if he didn't make major strides this last season and won 
our first playoff game in 30+ years and our first 2 road playoff wins ever as a HC...

This was one hell of a playoff resume to build off of with a young team the FO, him and the coaches put together.

LOL. You guys act like I haven't factored in the whole 30 years thing and 2 road playoff games. Is he a finished product? I say the team is waiting for him to catch up . . . you say he's a young coach learning. Neither one of us is wrong, btw. Also, I've only criticized his play calling and the only roster issue I've had was last years weak attempt at filling the o-line. I even stated that he took over a shit team and built it up so I'm not sure what you're trying to point out, but thanks anyway.

Here's another question . . . who do you think deserves the most credit for the Super Bowl run, Joe Burrow or Zac Taylor? I have no problem picking Joe. If I had a choice starting a new team between Joe Burrow as QB or Zac Taylor as HC or OC, I'd take Burrow without a second thought. I'm not saying Zac is worthless or clueless . . . I just think he's in a bit over his head at this time but I guess that thinking is not allowed in success laden Cincinnati.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(03-19-2022, 07:01 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I personally know a NFL head coach and NFL OC they both recently told me that Taylor’s schemes are very strong and a lot of teams looking at them. Absolute truth here. They say the schemes absolutely saved this team and steered them to the Super Bowl with a total crap OL which is totally backed up by the metrics

Well, I guess all coaching criticism should be run through you and your connections first. My bad.

And I wasn't criticizing his schemes . . . just his play calling, just a fyi.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-22-2022, 09:26 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Well, I guess all coaching criticism should be run through you and your connections first. My bad.

And I wasn't criticizing his schemes . . . just his play calling, just a fyi.

I didn’t quote you did I? I’m capable of quoting someone if I’m directly discussing with them. I was just pointing out Taylor has a solid reputation for his offensive scheme. I think his play calling will look better without the guard rails he’s had because of a poor OL.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2022, 09:22 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: LOL. You guys act like I haven't factored in the whole 30 years thing and 2 road playoff games. Is he a finished product? I say the team is waiting for him to catch up . . . you say he's a young coach learning. Neither one of us is wrong, btw. Also, I've only criticized his play calling and the only roster issue I've had was last years weak attempt at filling the o-line. I even stated that he took over a shit team and built it up so I'm not sure what you're trying to point out, but thanks anyway.

Here's another question . . . who do you think deserves the most credit for the Super Bowl run, Joe Burrow or Zac Taylor? I have no problem picking Joe. If I had a choice starting a new team between Joe Burrow as QB or Zac Taylor as HC or OC, I'd take Burrow without a second thought. I'm not saying Zac is worthless or clueless . . . I just think he's in a bit over his head at this time but I guess that thinking is not allowed in success laden Cincinnati.

You can have your opinion FSV and I respect that. I see Zac growing as a HC and find it to be a great thing to see.

I never defended the guy until we started beating the Steelers and Ravens last year and we didn't just beat them, we beat
them down. Then we went and won the AFC North in that Chiefs game we had to win and yeah, Burrow was the main reason
for a lot of this, he played great in these 5 games.

Who deserves the credit for the Super Bowl run? The Defense under Lou and Evan McPherson are my votes.

Joe played just good enough to get us there, but without our Defense playing elite football and McPherson making clutch 
Kicks we wouldn't of made it.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-23-2022, 04:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You can have your opinion FSV and I respect that. I see Zac growing as a HC and find it to be a great thing to see.

I never defended the guy until we started beating the Steelers and Ravens last year and we didn't just beat them, we beat
them down. Then we went and won the AFC North in that Chiefs game we had to win and yeah, Burrow was the main reason
for a lot of this, he played great in these 5 games.

Who deserves the credit for the Super Bowl run? The Defense under Lou and Evan McPherson are my votes.

Joe played just good enough to get us there, but without our Defense playing elite football and McPherson making clutch 
Kicks we wouldn't of made it.

A star QB is always going to have the most impact. How is Belichick doing without Brady? How’d Arians done this year without Brady? So that’s not a knock on Taylor. How’d McVay do with Stafford?

I think the Bengal fan base remembers his first two years and can’t get past that. Taylor has never been an OC ( briefly interim at Miami) or head coach. Pete Carroll and Sean Payton are considered great coaches. They’ve won a Super Bowl but only played in 1. Taylor engineered this turnaround. Not to minimize Duke Tobin or Lou Anarumo but Tobin wasn’t considered some FO guru ever. Lou was handpicked by Zac. Duke’s better with Zac. And Duke has done great lately.

Taylor can lead a team and an organization. Lots of great head coaches aren’t great leaders. That said Taylor is not near where he’s gonna become.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-24-2022, 08:22 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: A star QB is always going to have the most impact. How is Belichick doing without Brady? How’d Arians done this year without Brady? So that’s not a knock on Taylor. How’d McVay do with Stafford?

I think the Bengal fan base remembers his first two years and can’t get past that. Taylor has never been an OC ( briefly interim at Miami) or head coach. Pete Carroll and Sean Payton are considered great coaches. They’ve won a Super Bowl but only played in 1. Taylor engineered this turnaround. Not to minimize Duke Tobin or Lou Anarumo but Tobin wasn’t considered some FO guru ever. Lou was handpicked by Zac. Duke’s better with Zac. And Duke has done great lately.

Taylor can lead a team and an organization. Lots of great head coaches aren’t great leaders. That said Taylor is not near where he’s gonna become.

Great post and well said Soonerpeace. Zac is like the glue to all of this.

The one thing that stood out to me the most when the FO picked him was that everyone he worked with, McVay, the players, the 
coaches, all said Zac Taylor was a great communicator and I think this has finally shown through. Just scratching the surface.

Discipline is there too, we were the least penalized team in the league FFS!

[basballguy]

(03-24-2022, 08:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post and well said Soonerpeace. Zac is like the glue to all of this.

The one thing that stood out to me the most when the FO picked him was that everyone he worked with, McVay, the players, the 
coaches, all said Zac Taylor was a great communicator and I think this has finally shown through. Just scratching the surface.

Discipline is there too, we were the least penalized team in the league FFS!

Ignoring the idiocy that is Vernon Hargreaves....

I cannot tell you how wonderful this part of the team has been for me the last couple years.  

Eli Apple had 5 penalties last year and led the team with Tre Hill....for as much shit as I give him, that's really not bad.  Now his penalties are dumb f'n penalties but they're still low.

in 2015, Dre K had 13 and Andre Smith had 10.  Dudes were always raking in the flags.  

Now I'm still trained to look for the flag on big plays, but it's very satisfying not seeing them.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-24-2022, 08:43 PM)basballguy Wrote: Ignoring the idiocy that is Vernon Hargreaves....

I cannot tell you how wonderful this part of the team has been for me the last couple years.  

Eli Apple had 5 penalties last year and led the team with Tre Hill....for as much shit as I give him, that's really not bad.  Now his penalties are dumb f'n penalties but they're still low.

in 2015, Dre K had 13 and Andre Smith had 10.  Dudes were always raking in the flags.  

Now I'm still trained to look for the flag on big plays, but it's very satisfying not seeing them.  

No doubt and very underrated and is a big reason we got to the big game.

Imagine actually having quality O-lineman that don't get the penalties added to this team like we brought in.

La'el doesn't get many penalties cause he just punches instead of holding on and if he gets beat a bit he snatch blocks
instead of putting his arms outside.

Cappa and Karras are just technically sound.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-24-2022, 08:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post and well said Soonerpeace. Zac is like the glue to all of this.

The one thing that stood out to me the most when the FO picked him was that everyone he worked with, McVay, the players, the 
coaches, all said Zac Taylor was a great communicator and I think this has finally shown through. Just scratching the surface.

Discipline is there too, we were the least penalized team in the league FFS!

I started the coaching props thread due to the discipline shown by this squad. We used to get flagged a bit....to go to league leaders in lack of penalties was what made me a believer. 

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(03-25-2022, 10:10 AM)Wyche Wrote: I started the coaching props thread due to the discipline shown by this squad. We used to get flagged a bit....to go to league leaders in lack of penalties was what made me a believer. 

I left that out, but yes . . . this is light years ahead of Marvin's squads and ML's teams were better at curbing dumb penalties than those that came before him. Penalties happen, it's part of the game. DUMB penalties can ruin a game and a teams confidence.

I have a couple of hard core Dallas fans as friends and they love Lou Anarumo. I told them "The biggest reason his defense is so solid is discipline. Nobody's really out there dominating anyone or blowing anyone up except maybe Hendricksen. Everyone is staying true to their assignments."

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-25-2022, 10:10 AM)Wyche Wrote: I started the coaching props thread due to the discipline shown by this squad. We used to get flagged a bit....to go to league leaders in lack of penalties was what made me a believer. 

Me too. The discipline that this team played with this last season was spectacular.

(03-25-2022, 07:06 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I left that out, but yes . . . this is light years ahead of Marvin's squads and ML's teams were better at curbing dumb penalties than those that came before him. Penalties happen, it's part of the game. DUMB penalties can ruin a game and a teams confidence.

I have a couple of hard core Dallas fans as friends and they love Lou Anarumo. I told them "The biggest reason his defense is so solid is discipline. Nobody's really out there dominating anyone or blowing anyone up except maybe Hendricksen. Everyone is staying true to their assignments."

Completely agree here FSV.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-25-2022, 07:06 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I left that out, but yes . . . this is light years ahead of Marvin's squads and ML's teams were better at curbing dumb penalties than those that came before him. Penalties happen, it's part of the game. DUMB penalties can ruin a game and a teams confidence.

I have a couple of hard core Dallas fans as friends and they love Lou Anarumo. I told them "The biggest reason his defense is so solid is discipline. Nobody's really out there dominating anyone or blowing anyone up except maybe Hendricksen. Everyone is staying true to their assignments."

Yes, and that seems to be why Carlos fell out of favor. He didn't want to play within the system. Maybe he didn't want to drop into coverage, or didn't think it'd work. It worked beautifully against Mahommes.