What have we learned in the past few weeks?

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(12-28-2020, 02:08 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: I learned that, that the staff must really hate J. Ross.

They would rather activate and trot out Trenton Irwin, than give John Ross snaps.  It's clear that Ross has been a bust and struggles with mental errors and drops, but I find it curious that Irwin is being considered a better option.

Think he was put on IR some time ago...but yes, Ross is clearly hated within the organization.  And this is the second round of leadership that hasn't liked him....oh, and this group likes Bobby Hart and his antics.  So....Ross must be a colossal ass.  My worst pick ever.  I was so excited to have (what I thought was the next Tyreek Hill) him and he did basically one big game.  He will forever be known as the player selected right before Patrick Mahommes.  

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(12-28-2020, 04:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why after yesterday? I actually feel better about Tee potentially becoming a true #1 after seeing him go for almost 100 yds and a TD with a back QB in.

Here is the problem:  If Tee or Boyd go down, the other draws the best defender and the Bengals offensive line (really ANY offensive line) can't hold up in pass blocking long enough for the slow-developing routes to develop.  When they faced a defense like pitt or Baltimore (and we get that twice a year) they can shut down both our top targets and then you have a QB holding the ball and getting killed.

The Bengals #1 need on offense is to further improve the line.  The #2 need is for a speed option that gets a cushion so easy completions are there for the taking, but also keeps safeties deep to open up the middle of the field and the rushing attack.  They need talent and they need depth of talent.  I would also add another speed option later as a developmental player like Schwartz from Auburn.  We can't trot out the same style WR if there is one injury.  That kills this offense.  We have the QB.  Surround him with protection and diverse weapons.  

My dream scenario isn't Sewell, it is to get Chase, and maybe in Rd 3 get the mammoth Faalele from Minnesota to play RT.  At 6'8" and 400 lbs, he could be groomed behind Hart.  That way, we aren't moving Jonah from his LT spot.   I would also hope for a Guard like Deone Brown from Bama to put next to Faalele and have a mauling right side of the line.  I would aim for a DT like Barmore to have a beast next to Reader in the middle.  Washington's strength is all across the defensive line...not just Chase Young on the edge.  If Alex Smith can be back healthy for next week and the playoffs, I don't think a lot of teams want to play them.  That line is incredible.  We need help in the middle.  

Sign Thuney for a 5 year deal and put him next to Jonah Williams and that side becomes a strength.  

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(12-30-2020, 10:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like hopefully the biggest takeaway from the coaches is that a more balanced offense works better than throwing it 60+ times. In 3 of the games we won this year, we had an adequate to good running game.

Absolutely.  They had decent runs to start games, then always seemed to be like:  "OK, that's enough, let's air it out".  This got Burrow killed against Cleveland the first game, the Eagles, and Pitt.  

The other important need here is a WR that demands a cushion for quick completions and the ability to take the top off the defense and force safeties deep.  

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(12-30-2020, 01:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Isn't his blocking the reason they jumped to get him? They knew they needed a good Blocking TE because of our o line.

It wasn't just his blocking, they thought that he had potential as a receiver and that he was underutilized as a pass-catching TE at Washington and also suffered behind horrible QB play.  I think he caught something ridiculous like 100% of his targets.  They liked his versatility and character.  

I think he has been brought along just fine and could see him getting more pass receptions next season and being the TE #1 as CJ works to return from injury.  

A lot of people didn't think very highly of Tyler Boyd after his second season put him in Marv's dog house and had various injuries as well as a decline in his play.   He blew up in year three with his first 1000 yard season and has become Mr. Reliable in the middle of the field.  

My hope is they further develop those TE screens for blitzes like they utilized so effectively in the second game against the Browns.  Sample had 5 EASY receptions for 52 yards and helped move the chains with near-zero risk pass plays.  

I want to see our RBs and TEs more involved in the passing game yet still get Chase with our first pick to open everything else up.  I know Burrow can read a defense and go through progressions very quickly.  Give him options and some quick dump-offs to protect him in blitz situations and the offense will soar.

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(12-30-2020, 01:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hey I’m all for taking Chase. I’d be super happy with him or Pitts.

I disagree Kelce is a below average blocker though.

Heading into Sunday's win over the Carolina Panthers, Kelce's name was atop the leaderboards in several other statistical categories. He led all tight ends with at least 200 snaps played in Pro Football Focus' grades for run blocking (79.5), receiving (89.6), and overall offense (90.3), putting up better grades than he ever has. His level of play isn't just elite — it's all-time great.

One of the main points of the George Kittle/Kelce debate for the game's best tight end was centered around run blocking. Kittle received rave reviews for his prowess in that area, while Kelce's quality performances were overlooked. Now, with the 49ers' best offensive player being banged up for most of this season and the Chiefs' leading receiver taking his game to another level, that conversation is over. With that, a new one should begin. It's time to give Kelce his flowers while he's still playing at such an exceptional level.

https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/.amp/gm-report/footenotes-travis-kelce-somehow-deserving-more-credit

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/te

Ok, you were looking at run blocking and I was looking at (and should have specified) pass blocking.  Seeing as how so many of the snaps early this year for Sample were of the pass-blocking variety.  That is where Kelce struggles, according to PFF.  Of course, you can just say: "Why would I take such a great weapon out of a pattern to block?" and that would be a good question.  

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-28-2020, 12:31 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: TE is definately on my list of needs.

On offense, WR, TE, G, T (although Hart is ok. Not good.)

On defense, defensive line. CB if Jackson leaves. Can always use a good lb, but may as well give these guys another year.

CB is a need even if Jackson stays. This thread is about lessons learnt and surely one of the biggest lessons learnt is the need for depth. We saw what happened repeatedly whenever LeShaun Sims came in. I reckon Sims has played more than half of the snaps this year and two of the players above him in the depth chart are out contract (WJIII and Alexander) and far from certain to stay. I know CB was hit injury wise but that's football. I wouldn't want to be relying on Phillips and a man who's been out all year with a pectoral injury that was only supposed to keep him out 2 months to stay fit.

If they re-sign Jackson that maybe takes CB out of the equation for the first two picks but 3rd round onwards it is very much in play.

Finding another Phillips in the 5th round would be very nice. They should also be looking to pair that day 2 or 3 pick at CB with a veteran on a cheap deal. The Alexander pick-up was good business - something like that again would be ideal.

(12-28-2020, 12:35 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s one good thing (kinda) we have so many holes we need just about everything. I’d say QB, RB, and safety are about the only positions we’re set at. So we really should be able to go BPA.

Safety is a need as well. With Shawn Williams out of contract and already packing his bags for the exit there's no depth whatsoever at the position. I had some hopes for Trayvon Henderson maybe being a developmental piece but I think he was waived the other day. A late round pick at S is a minimum.

The drop off if Bates got injured would be catastrophic.

(12-28-2020, 12:53 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I just don't get this. The team is better at the run than when Geno is playing. Yeah, he gets a sack every other game but that's about it. Outside of two big runs, they played the run pretty well today. Daniels, Covington, Reader(already signed) and Williams could all be back next year cheaply while you build up the offense with early round picks. Then in 2022, look to draft Daniels eventual replacement with an early round DT.

Go offense and a CB or two in the 2021 draft and let the 2020 LBs and Pratt prove if they can improve next year. If any fall off, grab a LB or two in the 2022 draft.

They need a pass rushing DT. There's no one other than Geno who's a potential cap casualty.

(12-28-2020, 07:23 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: I like Gio a lot and think he adds a lot to the third down offense. He is really good at picking up the blitzers. However, for 4.8 million that money can be better spent. 

Last year he played in all 16 games and had 53 carries for 170 yards and 30 receptions out of 43 targets for 234 yards. This year his numbers are up because Mixon has been out. He is currently the 16th highest paid running back according to Over the Cap. Mixon is the 7th highest paid RB. 

To put this in perspective Perine makes $825,000. 

In a salary cap league --overspending hurts the roster. Love Gio but hate the salary. If they re-negotiate with him (other teams do that ) and get him in around 2.8 million then it could work.
 
Bernard ($4.1 mil) + CJ (5 mil) + Hart (5.9 mill)  = Scherff (15 mil) or Shaq Barrett ($15.8 mil) or Trent Williams (13.2 mil) or Joe Thuney (14.7 mil) 
                                                                    

Seems like a no-brainer to me 

Surely the take away from that is love Mixon hate his salary?

The problem isn't Gio's salary it is Mixon's. Obviously they are now stuck with this for several years.

This is probably another example of where Tobin has cost the franchise. They felt obliged to pay Mixon having come up almost blank in the draft from 2012 until 2018 when they drafted Bates (Zeitler and Marvin Jones were good and worth paying but had already departed; injuries meant they weren't in a position to pay big money long term deals for Eifert, WJIII and Lawson; the only other player from those drafts worth paying was Boyd, who they'd already secured long term). See also Hopkins who they seemed to pay for the need to spend money. Hopkins is ok but he had the biggest deal out of everyone who played v Houston! Had Bates and Mixon been up for a new deal at the same time it would have been a far easier sell to sign Bates to a massive deal and then say that's why we can't afford Mixon.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(12-31-2020, 11:58 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: They need a pass rushing DT. There's no one other than Geno who's a potential cap casualty.

Who says they "need" a pass rushing DT?  Aaron Donald is an absolute freak and he has 13.5 sacks. The next closest DT has 7.5. There are 11 LBs with 7.5 or more sacks, 16 DEs with 7.5 or more and a Safety with 9.5 sacks. Surely you've noticed that the Bengals defense has played better without Geno? Like it or not, they are a lot better against the run with Geno out. Expecting him to be at the level he was a few years ago is highly unlikely at this point.

Improve the CB corp and the sack numbers goes up. The young LBs have covered the TEs and RBs much better than recent Bengals LBs but still need to improve some more.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-31-2020, 05:16 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Who says they "need" a pass rushing DT?  Aaron Donald is an absolute freak and he has 13.5 sacks. The next closest DT has 7.5. There are 11 LBs with 7.5 or more sacks, 16 DEs with 7.5 or more and a Safety with 9.5 sacks. Surely you've noticed that the Bengals defense has played better without Geno? Like it or not, they are a lot better against the run with Geno out. Expecting him to be at the level he was a few years ago is highly unlikely at this point.

Improve the CB corp and the sack numbers goes up. The young LBs have covered the TEs and RBs much better than recent Bengals LBs but still need to improve some more.

I'm not expecting them to get the next Donald but it is cheaper to get in one DT than upgrade all of the CB corp. A disruptive DT's impact is only partially reflected in sacks. Signing a DT who attracts double teams or collapses the pocket will create more opportunities for LBs and DEs (and CBs). 

The drop in Geno's play is an argument to replace him, not to ignore the position.

[KillerGoose]

(12-31-2020, 05:16 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Who says they "need" a pass rushing DT?  Aaron Donald is an absolute freak and he has 13.5 sacks. The next closest DT has 7.5. There are 11 LBs with 7.5 or more sacks, 16 DEs with 7.5 or more and a Safety with 9.5 sacks. Surely you've noticed that the Bengals defense has played better without Geno? Like it or not, they are a lot better against the run with Geno out. Expecting him to be at the level he was a few years ago is highly unlikely at this point.

Improve the CB corp and the sack numbers goes up. The young LBs have covered the TEs and RBs much better than recent Bengals LBs but still need to improve some more.

I would value a pass rush more than CB play. Better CB play could translate to more sacks, but better pass rush will absolutely contribute to ‘better’ CB play. Getting a pass rushing edge and an interior rusher would make the secondaries job much easier.

[CanadianBengal]

(01-01-2021, 02:05 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I would value a pass rush more than CB play. Better CB play could translate to more sacks, but better pass rush will absolutely contribute to ‘better’ CB play. Getting a pass rushing edge and an interior rusher would make the secondaries job much easier.

When DTs get a push it also helps the DE's as the QB cannot step up into the pocket. Carlos got a lot of his sacks when the QB needed to move to get away from Geno. 

[KillerGoose]

(01-01-2021, 07:45 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: When DTs get a push it also helps the DE's as the QB cannot step up into the pocket. Carlos got a lot of his sacks when the QB needed to move to get away from Geno. 

Exactly. In today’s NFL, the best way to have a really good defense is to have a dangerous pass rush. Obviously that is easier said than done but you can really mask secondary deficiencies with a deadly pass rush. Having an interior rush is really beneficial to helping the edge thrive.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-01-2021, 08:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Exactly. In today’s NFL, the best way to have a really good defense is to have a dangerous pass rush. Obviously that is easier said than done but you can really mask secondary deficiencies with a deadly pass rush. Having an interior rush is really beneficial to helping the edge thrive.

It takes more than just a pass rush.  The old axiom of being strong up the middle still has value.  Teams that are defensively built tough at DT, ILB and Safety have a greater chance of not only stopping the run, but flushing the QB to the edge rushers, as well as taking away the middle of the field on pass routes.

[fredtoast]

(12-31-2020, 05:16 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  Surely you've noticed that the Bengals defense has played better without Geno? Like it or not, they are a lot better against the run with Geno out.

I haven't noticed Geno playing much against the run at all.

How many snaps has he played on running plays and what have been the results.

Right now Bengals are 25th in rushing yards allowed and even worse (29th) in yards per carry allowed.  So what are the breakdowns with Geno in or out?