Mike Brown/Duke Tobin Vs. John Elway

[Wes Mantooth]

For those that don't know, John Elway stepped down as General Manager today. After 4 straight losing seasons he's stepping aside and letting a new GM take over. Here's how the team describes the GM's new role: “...with full authority to oversee the personnel and football department"

Fwiw, Elway will remain on staff as Present of Football Operations, and will hire the new GM.

I guess this isn't shocking. The Broncos have been pretty bad as of late. They've won 5 games in 2017, 6 games in 2018, 7 games in 2019, and 5 games in 2020. That's an average of just 5.75 wins per season

Well, here are our win totals over that same span: 7, 6, 2 and 4. For an average of 4.75 wins a season.

Here's Elways entire body of work as GM (I'll let you compare it to ours, rather than type it all out)

2011 - 8-8
2012 - 13-3
2013 - 13-3 (Lost in Superbowl)
2014 - 12-4
2015 - 12-4 (Won Supebowl)
2016 - 9-7
2017 - 5-11
2018 - 6-10
2019 - 7-9
2020 - 5-11

Overall Record - 90-70 (+6-4 in Postseason)

So this guy, with this resume, decides to step down after 10 years. Meanwhile, we have Mike Brown with 30 years on the job, and Duke Tobin with 22 years on the job, staying put.

You make all the changes you want to personnel and position coaches, and really anything else. Until we make changes to the front office, and hold ourselves to the same standards set around the league, we'll never sniff real success.

[*bfine32*]

He took a position higher in the organization.

He didn't step down, he stepped up.

[Benton]

(01-04-2021, 08:50 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: For those that don't know, John Elway stepped down as General Manager today.  After 4 straight losing seasons he's stepping aside and letting a new GM take over.  Here's how the team describes the GM's new role: “...with full authority to oversee the personnel and football department"

Fwiw, Elway will remain on staff as Present of Football Operations, and will hire the new GM.

I guess this isn't shocking.  The Broncos have been pretty bad as of late.  They've won 5 games in 2017, 6 games in 2018, 7 games in 2019, and 5 games in 2020.  That's an average of just 5.75 wins per season

Well, here are our win totals over that same span:  7, 6, 2 and 4.  For an average of 4.75 wins a season.

Here's Elways entire body of work as GM (I'll let you compare it to ours, rather than type it all out)

2011 - 8-8
2012 - 13-3
2013 - 13-3 (Lost in Superbowl)
2014 - 12-4
2015 - 12-4 (Won Supebowl)
2016 - 9-7
2017 - 5-11
2018 - 6-10
2019 - 7-9
2020 - 5-11

Overall Record - 90-70 (+6-4 in Postseason)

So this guy, with this resume, decides to step down after 10 years.  Meanwhile, we have Mike Brown with 30 years on the job, and Duke Tobin with 22 years on the job, staying put.

You make all the changes you want to personnel and position coaches, and really anything else.  Until we make changes to the front office, and hold ourselves to the same standards set around the league, we'll never sniff real success.

Somebody made a good point in another thread. When the Broncos went all in on "win now or bust" a few years ago, it was setting them up for where they're at now. But good on Elway for stepping back and saying the situation needs a new set of eyes. 

I wish we had the same kind of leadership. It could've made all the difference during the rebuilds during the AD/AJ era. 

[BrownAssClown]

Well I don't think Mike Brown is going to step down until he passes like his father did. Perks of owning your own team and appointing yourself GM I guess.

[Destro]

Mike Brown will outlive us all.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-04-2021, 08:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He took a position higher in the organization.

He didn't step down, he stepped up.

Wrong.  He's held both positions simultaneously (General Manager and President of Football Operations).

He's giving up his GM title but staying in his role as PFO.  This isn't a step up.  It's stepping back, or stepping aside, depending on how you would want to word it.

[*bfine32*]

(01-04-2021, 09:08 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Wrong.  He's held both positions (General Manager and President of Football Operations).

He's giving up his GM title but staying in his role as PFO.  This isn't a step up.  It's stepping back, or stepping aside, depending on how you would want to word it.

"I have made the decision to step up into an elevated role"

aka..bfine is Not Wrong
Dude just wants to golf more. 

[jj22]

(01-04-2021, 09:04 PM)Destro Wrote: Mike Brown will outlive us all.

He is the Bengals curse!

[MileHighGrowler]

(01-04-2021, 09:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote:

"I have made the decision to step up into an elevated role"

aka..bfine is Not Wrong
Dude just wants to golf more. 

Pretty sure he's a member of every nice golf course in town so probably.  Although my golf buddies here talk about seeing him playing cards inside the clubhouse more often than seeing him on the course.   

I think it's funny that he words it that way.  He is replacing himself as GM and then putting that position under him so he's "elevating" himself even though it's the same role he had previously, and he's relinquishing duties.  Elway never did play the humble game well.  

Someday we're gonna talk about GMs for the Bengals.... 

[Yojimbo]

(01-04-2021, 08:59 PM)Benton Wrote: Somebody made a good point in another thread. When the Broncos went all in on "win now or bust" a few years ago, it was setting them up for where they're at now. But good on Elway for stepping back and saying the situation needs a new set of eyes. 

I wish we had the same kind of leadership. It could've made all the difference during the rebuilds during the AD/AJ era. 

So in the same situation as us, but with a Super Bowl trophy. Sign me up!

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-04-2021, 09:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote:

"I have made the decision to step up into an elevated role"

aka..bfine is Not Wrong
Dude just wants to golf more. 

You are wrong.  He says in the very next sentence "While I'll continue to be President of Football Operations"

He's held the title the entire time he's been there.  That was his initial position until they finally convinced to take over as GM.

When he says "elevated role" he means hiring a GM, something he's never had to do as President.

I'm not really sure how this couldn't be any more clear.  You can't say he's stepping up when he has the job title he's had for his entire career as an executive.

That's like saying a CEO, who is also a board member, is stepping up when he relinquishing his CEO title, but stays on the board.  The man is stepping down, or stepping aside as a GM.  Period.  End of story.

[*bfine32*]

(01-04-2021, 09:19 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You are wrong.  He says in the very next sentence "While I'll continue to be President of Football Operations"

He's held the title the entire time he's been there.  That was his initial position until they finally convinced to take over as GM.

When he says "elevated role" he means hiring a GM, something he's never had to do as President.

I'm not really sure how this couldn't be any more clear.  You can't say he's stepping up when he has the job title he's had for his entire career as an executive.

That's like saying a CEO, who is also a board member, is stepping up when he relinquishing his CEO title, but stays on the board.  The man is stepping down, or stepping aside as a GM.  Period.  End of story.

I'm going to accept a promotion and going to relinquish my role as toilet bowl cleaner

Look bfine is stepping down from his role as toilet bowl cleaner

Dude said he's stepping up, so I said he stepping up. But you are saying that's not true because.....

I get you have an agenda, but Elway is a bad example

[Luvnit2]

(01-04-2021, 08:50 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: For those that don't know, John Elway stepped down as General Manager today.  After 4 straight losing seasons he's stepping aside and letting a new GM take over.  Here's how the team describes the GM's new role: “...with full authority to oversee the personnel and football department"

Fwiw, Elway will remain on staff as Present of Football Operations, and will hire the new GM.

I guess this isn't shocking.  The Broncos have been pretty bad as of late.  They've won 5 games in 2017, 6 games in 2018, 7 games in 2019, and 5 games in 2020.  That's an average of just 5.75 wins per season

Well, here are our win totals over that same span:  7, 6, 2 and 4.  For an average of 4.75 wins a season.

Here's Elways entire body of work as GM (I'll let you compare it to ours, rather than type it all out)

2011 - 8-8
2012 - 13-3
2013 - 13-3 (Lost in Superbowl)
2014 - 12-4
2015 - 12-4 (Won Supebowl)
2016 - 9-7
2017 - 5-11
2018 - 6-10
2019 - 7-9
2020 - 5-11

Overall Record - 90-70 (+6-4 in Postseason)

So this guy, with this resume, decides to step down after 10 years.  Meanwhile, we have Mike Brown with 30 years on the job, and Duke Tobin with 22 years on the job, staying put.

You make all the changes you want to personnel and position coaches, and really anything else.  Until we make changes to the front office, and hold ourselves to the same standards set around the league, we'll never sniff real success.

Sweet deal for Elway, he gets promoted (hiring and overseeing football operations) and gets someone to do his job. He failed and got promoted, sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-04-2021, 09:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sweet deal for Elway, he gets promoted (hiring and overseeing football operations) and gets someone to do his job. He failed and got promoted, sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE DID NOT GET PROMOTED.  He was already President of Football Operation (a lot of GM's are).

He's basically keeping a title, and he's leading the search to find his replacement.

Here is how the team descibes the GM position: “...with full authority to oversee the personnel and football department"

That doesn't leave a lot for Elway to do.  They're keeping him on and leaving him with his remaining title, with greatly reduced resposibilities and control. 

The new GM would have way more power in shaping that team and staff than John Elway.  After the new hiring he'll pretty much be reduced to a figurehead.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-04-2021, 09:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm going to accept a promotion and going to relinquish my role as toilet bowl cleaner

Look bfine is stepping down from his role as toilet bowl cleaner

Dude said he's stepping up, so I said he stepping up. But you are saying that's not true because.....

I get you have an agenda, but Elway is a bad example

Did you just compare being a General Manager “with full authority to oversee the personnel and football department" to being a toilet bowl cleaner?

I don't have any agenda, but clearly you do.  There's nothing hard to understand about any of this.

[impactplaya]

Enter John Dorsey new GM of the Broncos.

[*bfine32*]

(01-04-2021, 09:43 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Did you just compare being a General Manager “with full authority to oversee the personnel and football department" to being a toilet bowl cleaner?

I don't have any agenda, but clearly you do.  There's nothing hard to understand about any of this.

Nope I compared taking a elevated  position to getting a promotion. It's called an analogy. 

Yes, this new GM get to work "directly with the head coach". 

He was promoted; it says so on the Team's twitter feed.  There's nothing hard to understand. He stepped up. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-04-2021, 09:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope I compared taking a elevated  position to getting a promotion. It's called an analogy. 

Yes, this new GM get to work "directly with the head coach". 

He was promoted; it says so on the Team's twitter feed.  There's nothing hard to understand. He stepped up. 

What's his new title?

You think it came with a pay increase? (Stepping up always does)

[Luvnit2]

(01-04-2021, 09:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What's his new title?

You think it came with a pay increase? (Stepping up always does)

John created a new position in the organization, he oversees the new position. He has to manage the new guy while the new guy does most of the work he used to do. Maybe not a promotion, but certainly not a demotion or step down in position. BTW, I did some more research and he still has one year left on his contract and did not take a pay cut.

Why?

In John's own words:

 "I started thinking about what I want with my life, what I wanted to experience in my life. Being 60 years old, I want to take advantage of some of the hard work I put in."

[*bfine32*]

(01-04-2021, 09:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What's his new title?

You think it came with a pay increase? (Stepping up always does)

Okey Dokey

(01-04-2021, 10:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: John created a new position in the organization, he oversees the new position. He has to manage the new guy while the new guy does most of the work he used to do. Maybe not a promotion, but certainly not a demotion or step down in position. BTW, I did some more research and he still has one year left on his contract and did not take a pay cut.

Why?

In John's own words:

 "I started thinking about what I want with my life, what I wanted to experience in my life. Being 60 years old, I want to take advantage of some of the hard work I put in."

There comes a time when you just gotta let it go.