Couple Bengals on PFF FA rankings

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

I rip WJIII all the time but one thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that he always goes up against the opponents #1 WR and comes away ahead most of the time. That's hard to replace.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-08-2021, 01:22 PM)J24 Wrote: He was 7th this past season in pressures and lead the NFL in QB Hits with 32 and QB Knockdowns with 23. The guy is going to get paid if healthy he is a 100% worth it.

Yep, the Bengals just need better people to pressure the QB with Lawson. He can't do it all himself.
They shipped off Dunlap, Hubbard isn't an elite pass rusher (11 QB hits, 7 knockdowns in 13 games), and Atkins was basically hurt all year and getting to an age that might mean he doesn't get back to his old self.
They should keep Lawson and add another pass rusher or two in the draft.

[KillerGoose]

(01-08-2021, 01:22 PM)J24 Wrote: He was 7th this past season in pressures and lead the NFL in QB Hits with 32 and QB Knockdowns with 23. The guy is going to get paid if healthy he is a 100% worth it.

Just a note, but he was 2nd in QB hits with 32, behind TJ Watt who had 41. 

[mikey6866]

(01-08-2021, 01:10 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Don't hammer me for this, but you surely saw the defense when WJIII and Alexander weren't out there, right?  You don't get better by not signing your best players.  And you won't get the same defense if you have a healthy Reader, Wren, Tupou, and Waynes out there.  

Of course I want them to spend on the offensive line as well, but not at the expense of three of our best players. I think that also sends a dangerous message that the top performers aren't re-signed.  

I think the Bengals could make it work from a cap standpoint with the contracts they are not renewing (Green, S. Williams, Ross) and the potential cuts (Geno, Hart-although I am not too certain about that one) that they could bring in a veteran Guard like Sherff or Thuney and spend a fairly high draft pick on a RT to groom behind Hart (that's why I don't let him go for any guy, even Sewell, that hasn't played in a year) and have a tremendous improvement over much of what sucked in 2020.

Mike Jordan was an absolute disaster and they stuck with him for way too long in 2020.  XSF has proven to be solid, but not great, since returning from injury, and Spain could also be a candidate to start at RG should Thuney or Sherff get the other guard spot.  Maybe they go with a FA tackle and draft a guard.  It all depends on what is out there.  

I would not want to cut Gio or Uzo, but if it meant one of those guys vs. a Thuney or Sherff, then I would do it.  I think a lot of the veteran FAs out there might find contracts not as much to their liking as so many teams are likely to be in cap hell.  The Bengals are actually in a pretty good position of strength.  

Paying 13-15 mil a year for WJII or Lawson is just not a smart move.  If your highest paid players are not producing at or close to a pro bowl level your roster wont be one of the best unless you hit homers several drafts in a row.  I like Lawson and WJIII and i feel they are both solid players but neither is a cornerstone guy that should be making elite money.  If you pay top end players top end money and you will see a dramatic improvement in the team.  If you pay solid players top end money and youll be stuck in mediocrity.  The fact that there is top end talent on the oline that could be available its a no brainer to go after these guys.  Its a perfect scenario as we will have plenty of cap room and there are quite a few teams that will be having issues with the cap.  Thuney and linsley are both ohio guys, so they might actually sign here.

This team won 6 games in 2 years.  I think it sends the perfect message to the rest of the team.  Some players may not love that their friends are gone but if we replace them with other players that make our roster better they will get over it real quick.  These guys know the NFL is a business.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-08-2021, 01:10 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Don't hammer me for this, but you surely saw the defense when WJIII and Alexander weren't out there, right?  You don't get better by not signing your best players.  And you won't get the same defense if you have a healthy Reader, Wren, Tupou, and Waynes out there.  

Of course I want them to spend on the offensive line as well, but not at the expense of three of our best players. I think that also sends a dangerous message that the top performers aren't re-signed.  

I think the Bengals could make it work from a cap standpoint with the contracts they are not renewing (Green, S. Williams, Ross) and the potential cuts (Geno, Hart-although I am not too certain about that one) that they could bring in a veteran Guard like Sherff or Thuney and spend a fairly high draft pick on a RT to groom behind Hart (that's why I don't let him go for any guy, even Sewell, that hasn't played in a year) and have a tremendous improvement over much of what sucked in 2020.

Mike Jordan was an absolute disaster and they stuck with him for way too long in 2020.  XSF has proven to be solid, but not great, since returning from injury, and Spain could also be a candidate to start at RG should Thuney or Sherff get the other guard spot.  Maybe they go with a FA tackle and draft a guard.  It all depends on what is out there.  

I would not want to cut Gio or Uzo, but if it meant one of those guys vs. a Thuney or Sherff, then I would do it.  I think a lot of the veteran FAs out there might find contracts not as much to their liking as so many teams are likely to be in cap hell.  The Bengals are actually in a pretty good position of strength.  

This sounds an awful lot like "they just need to get healthy and add 1 guy in FA on the OL to play LG"... which sounds an awful lot like the 2020 team just with one extra OL and a wish and a prayer.

That's not a plan, man. Or at least not a good one.

Also WJ3 missed only 2 games and one of those games was the Ravens game where they ran for over 400 yards, so I am not sure how his absence changed anything on defense.

I'm not sure how you think that not paying these guys sends a "dangerous message". They're still going to get paid in FA. It's not like Bengals players are suddenly going to loaf, because they still want to make theirs be it here or elsewhere. The message that it would send is "win or we'll find people who can win" by bringing in multiple top tier OL additions to protect Burrow and actually change the team dynamic rather than Year 6 of just holding as many of the same guys together as you can from the previous years and hoping that this will be the year your team gets a miracle and has 0 people get injured.


- - - - - -

Also, the idea that you'd choose Hart over Sewell or anyone else for 2021.... I don't even know where to start with that as far as words go so I will just put these here:

#Bengals Bobby Hart

Example: I lost count pic.twitter.com/6mIZAwy6Q0

— ?️RAZY ?️ENGAL (@BrazyBengal) December 6, 2020

Bobby Hart taking social distancing very seriously ?‍♂️ pic.twitter.com/q7muebjTgX

— Elite Andy Dalton (@EvilAndyDalton) September 18, 2020

Joey Bosa gets one on our good friend Bobby Hart. pic.twitter.com/6J9xtgXCv5

— Bobby Skinner (@BobbySkinner_) September 13, 2020

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-08-2021, 02:14 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: Paying 13-15 mil a year for WJII or Lawson is just not a smart move.  If your highest paid players are not producing at or close to a pro bowl level your roster wont be one of the best unless you hit homers several drafts in a row.  I like Lawson and WJIII and i feel they are both solid players but neither is a cornerstone guy that should be making elite money.  If you pay top end players top end money and you will see a dramatic improvement in the team.  If you pay solid players top end money and youll be stuck in mediocrity.  The fact that there is top end talent on the oline that could be available its a no brainer to go after these guys.  Its a perfect scenario as we will have plenty of cap room and there are quite a few teams that will be having issues with the cap.  Thuney and linsley are both ohio guys, so they might actually sign here.

This team won 6 games in 2 years.  I think it sends the perfect message to the rest of the team.  Some players may not love that their friends are gone but if we replace them with other players that make our roster better they will get over it real quick.  These guys know the NFL is a business.

Ok, but you just paid 14 million a year to a guy that was outside your organization and no one thinks he is better than WJIII.  What does that say to your team?  And Lawson is your best player not named Bates on defense.  How do you let that guy go?  You say he isn't elite, but he sure as hell didn't have elite this year on the interior of the defensive line with him.  

Bringing up win totals as a reason to not pay two of your top 5 players is stupid.  You think they are the reason the team won those six games or the other turds on the field?

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-08-2021, 02:09 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Just a note, but he was 2nd in QB hits with 32, behind TJ Watt who had 41. 

And Watt wasn't rotating with an ineffective Carlos Dunlap early on...

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-08-2021, 02:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This sounds an awful lot like "they just need to get healthy and add 1 guy in FA on the OL to play LG"... which sounds an awful lot like the 2020 team just with one extra OL and a wish and a prayer.

That's not a plan, man. Or at least not a good one.

Also WJ3 missed only 2 games and one of those games was the Ravens game where they ran for over 400 yards, so I am not sure how his absence changed anything on defense.

I'm not sure how you think that not paying these guys sends a "dangerous message". They're still going to get paid in FA. It's not like Bengals players are suddenly going to loaf, because they still want to make theirs be it here or elsewhere. The message that it would send is "win or we'll find people who can win" by bringing in multiple top tier OL additions to protect Burrow and actually change the team dynamic rather than Year 6 of just holding as many of the same guys together as you can from the previous years and hoping that this will be the year your team gets a miracle and has 0 people get injured.


- - - - - -

Also, the idea that you'd choose Hart over Sewell or anyone else for 2021.... I don't even know where to start with that as far as words go so I will just put these here:

#Bengals Bobby Hart

Example: I lost count pic.twitter.com/6mIZAwy6Q0

— ?️RAZY ?️ENGAL (@BrazyBengal) December 6, 2020

Bobby Hart taking social distancing very seriously ?‍♂️ pic.twitter.com/q7muebjTgX

— Elite Andy Dalton (@EvilAndyDalton) September 18, 2020

Joey Bosa gets one on our good friend Bobby Hart. pic.twitter.com/6J9xtgXCv5

— Bobby Skinner (@BobbySkinner_) September 13, 2020

Where are you getting "one guy", when I said add a (significant) FA like Thuney or Sherff AND an early draft pick to play tackle?  They finally sat the horrible Mike Jordan, and might have found something in Spain.  That is a plan, and a good one.  

If you think adding Sherff, Spain, and Sewell or Faalele to our line from a year ago isn't a good plan, then I guess any efforts there will be lost on you.

WJIII also impacted the rushing attack because the Bengals held both safeties deep, so they would rather bleed to death by paper cuts than axe wounds. 

As far as the message it would send, it is pointless debating if you don't see that you take an idea guy, with no off the field troubles, in the top 10 of his position and aren't able to make a competitive offer as a problem.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

We’re not getting Sherff. That’s an absolute pipe dream. Mike Brown is not going to pay for an All Pro OG.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-08-2021, 02:14 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: Paying 13-15 mil a year for WJII or Lawson is just not a smart move.  If your highest paid players are not producing at or close to a pro bowl level your roster wont be one of the best unless you hit homers several drafts in a row.  I like Lawson and WJIII and i feel they are both solid players but neither is a cornerstone guy that should be making elite money.  If you pay top end players top end money and you will see a dramatic improvement in the team.  If you pay solid players top end money and youll be stuck in mediocrity.  The fact that there is top end talent on the oline that could be available its a no brainer to go after these guys.  Its a perfect scenario as we will have plenty of cap room and there are quite a few teams that will be having issues with the cap.  Thuney and linsley are both ohio guys, so they might actually sign here.

This team won 6 games in 2 years.  I think it sends the perfect message to the rest of the team.  Some players may not love that their friends are gone but if we replace them with other players that make our roster better they will get over it real quick.  These guys know the NFL is a business.

Looking at the top 10 paid Dline..focus on edge rusher..Lawson getting 13/15 million does not put him in top ten and looking at his performance and pay I don;t think it is out of question.  Jackson would be up near top 10 but he has shown good numbers in his career.  Is Waynes signed for next year ? I don;t think we let both walk if possible. Also I don;t buy as much into honors since we know it tends to go to players on winning teams that does not mean players on losing team did not play well.

With your standard going to be All pro honors etc  in FA.. that mean you would pass on  Off. Tackle  as same type of players like Lawson and Jackson with lacking awards in FA at the 13-15,000 range?

[ah5]

All I have to say is pay Lawson and get him a running mate. Good pass rushers make even mediocre dbs look good.

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