Carson on Joe

[*pally*]

2 extra months for rehab means a lot

"It comes down to mindset. It's really tedious. It's really boring. Especially the beginning stuff," Carson Palmer said. "But Joe's a gym rat. That's his mentality."

and for all those who rip on the team's training staff

When he says Burrow is in good hands, he was in those same hands. Nick Cosgray, the Bengals director of rehab, was hired to help see Palmer through that spring 15 years ago. He's still here and has racked up a solid reputation in head trainer Paul Sparling's room among the players.

"Nick's great and look at all the experience he has. Joe is around people that have done this a ton," Palmer said. "He showed great toughness. Everyone's pulling for him. That city, that organization, they're all behind him and they're in a really good spot."


https://www.bengals.com/news/carson-palmer-knows-the-grind-and-joe-burrow-is-the-right-guy-to-be-going-throug

[SunsetBengal]

That may very well be the nicest, most positive thing that Carson has ever said about the organization, since his departure.

[BoomerFan]

Good to hear. That said, Carson wasn't 100% the year he came back and I think the same will be true of Joe unfortunately. Even if the technology has improved and you do everything right, the body needs time to heal/reduce scar tissue and such.

That doesn't mean we can't field a productive team, it just means that hopefully we protect Joe more and don't need him to carry the whole thing on his shoulders in 2021.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-15-2021, 12:41 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Good to hear. That said, Carson wasn't 100% the year he came back and I think the same will be true of Joe unfortunately. Even if the technology has improved and you do everything right, the body needs time to heal/reduce scar tissue and such.

That doesn't mean we can't field a productive team, it just means that hopefully we protect Joe more and don't need him to carry the whole thing on his shoulders in 2021.

Carson was really good his first season back

Pro Bowl
4035 yards
28 TD
93.9 rating

[RiverRat13]

(01-15-2021, 12:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Carson was really good his first season back

Pro Bowl
4035 yards
28 TD
93.9 rating

The 2005 and 2006 Bengals were essentially the same except the defense stopped getting turnovers in '06 to mask how bad it was.  Both teams were 5th offensively in DVOA.  

[*Nately120*]

(01-15-2021, 01:11 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: There’s a difference between physically 100% and mentally 100%. Palmer was physically 100%, but mentally he still didn’t trust his knee would hold up until he got through a few games. You could see he was reluctant to put his full weight on that knee in his follow through, which caused the ball to sail high. IIRC that last 2-3 games.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Palmer's replacement ACL gave out in 2014 in a non-contact "expiration date is due" sort of way.  When he came back from that injury though he was playing like a man who knew his time was running out so the hesitation wasn't there.  I can see why a player would be more cautious coming back from a big injury earlier in his career, so if Burrow might follow suit.

[Sled21]

(01-15-2021, 12:27 PM)pally Wrote: 2 extra months for rehab means a lot

"It comes down to mindset. It's really tedious. It's really boring. Especially the beginning stuff," Carson Palmer said. "But Joe's a gym rat. That's his mentality."

and for all those who rip on the team's training staff

When he says Burrow is in good hands, he was in those same hands. Nick Cosgray, the Bengals director of rehab, was hired to help see Palmer through that spring 15 years ago. He's still here and has racked up a solid reputation in head trainer Paul Sparling's room among the players.

"Nick's great and look at all the experience he has. Joe is around people that have done this a ton," Palmer said. "He showed great toughness. Everyone's pulling for him. That city, that organization, they're all behind him and they're in a really good spot."


https://www.bengals.com/news/carson-palmer-knows-the-grind-and-joe-burrow-is-the-right-guy-to-be-going-throug

Not only Cosgray, but Sparling was named NFL Athletic Trainer of the Year. The Bengals medical staff is unfairly maligned here often, when in actuality they are very good.

[Luvnit2]

(01-15-2021, 01:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Another thing to keep in mind is that Palmer's replacement ACL gave out in 2014 in a non-contact "expiration date is due" sort of way.  When he came back from that injury though he was playing like a man who knew his time was running out so the hesitation wasn't there.  I can see why a player would be more cautious coming back from a big injury earlier in his career, so if Burrow might follow suit.

Frank Gore called to remind you he is a very old RB who tore up his knee when he was 20 years old. He has not had an expiration date so I call BS.

Many NFL players the past 15 to 20 years have come back and not had issues. There is also this guy named Munoz, both knees major tears in college, yet not one issue with knees blown out again his entire career. I would say an OT, WR or RB is much higher risk to hurt a knee at any level of football. The torque a RB and WR put on each knee is unreal and very risky.

[*psychdoctor*]

Not sure it is a positive, but Palmer had his push off knee repaired, and Burrow will have his plant leg knee repaired. If I recall correctly, Palmer sailed the ball high because his release was slightly higher then before. Burrow's should not have the same problem. His mobility will take probably another year, however.

[XenoMorph]

(01-15-2021, 12:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Carson was really good his first season back

Pro Bowl
4035 yards
28 TD
93.9 rating

yes but you could see him not trusting himself out there or fulling planting  on that knee.

[XenoMorph]

(01-15-2021, 01:20 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: The 2005 and 2006 Bengals were essentially the same except the defense stopped getting turnovers in '06 to mask how bad it was.  Both teams were 5th offensively in DVOA.  

06 We had lost i think 7 Starters by the end of the 2nd game to IR or suspension

[*psychdoctor*]

(01-15-2021, 04:19 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Wrong, right, wrong, wrong, right.

It was Palmer’s left knee, same as Burrow. It’s not stepping through and transferring weight into your front leg that causes a QB to throw high, because they try to do it all with their arm, but it’s the stepping forward and transfer of weight that allows a QB to drive the football with velocity.

We just saw Roethlisberger doing this against us. He hurt his left knee mid season and he wouldn’t follow through on passes, so their whole offense became dink and dunk. Anytime he tried to go downfield, the ball sailed and was easy to for DB’s to get to.

I did not remember that Palmer dislocated his Patella.  According to Paulos; Palmer's surgeon, his MCL was grade 3 and really bad as well.  I also forget the 2006 injury and Palmer's 2014 injury was the same leg, I thought they were different knee injuries.  

Paulos: "On a scale of one to three, it was a four," he said. "It was off the chart. It was pretty badly damaged -- shredded is the better term."

The kneecap dislocated when Palmer was hit, damaging tissue around it. There was also some cartilage damage, he said.


On the good note, medical field has progressed significant since Palmer's first knee injury.  Hopefully Burrow feels comfortable behind the Bengal OL.  

[CorpusChristiBengal]

"Gym rat" never sounded right to me.

[PDub80]

(01-15-2021, 12:41 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Good to hear. That said, Carson wasn't 100% the year he came back and I think the same will be true of Joe unfortunately. Even if the technology has improved and you do everything right, the body needs time to heal/reduce scar tissue and such.

That doesn't mean we can't field a productive team, it just means that hopefully we protect Joe more and don't need him to carry the whole thing on his shoulders in 2021.

100% or not Carson was Probowl MVP the year he came back and the offense was awesome.

For fun - or sadness - go look up the individual scores in each game for 06 & 07 seasons. Then realize that if the Bengals could have held opponents to 23 points or fewer the Bengals would have won 12 more games between those seasons and been the #1 or 2 seed in the AFC.... now recall they missed the playoffs each if those seasons by 1 game. Ridiculous.

The Bengals offense w Carson was absolute ?.  But, I think that with Burrow it will be even BETTER!

[BFritz21]

(01-15-2021, 12:41 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Good to hear. That said, Carson wasn't 100% the year he came back and I think the same will be true of Joe unfortunately. Even if the technology has improved and you do everything right, the body needs time to heal/reduce scar tissue and such.

That doesn't mean we can't field a productive team, it just means that hopefully we protect Joe more and don't need him to carry the whole thing on his shoulders in 2021.

I think Carson might have been 100% physically but his problem was that he was scared of his knee getting torn apart again and never followed through on his throws whenever anyone was anywhere near his leg, even if they weren't going to hit him.

(01-15-2021, 01:11 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: There’s a difference between physically 100% and mentally 100%. Palmer was physically 100%, but mentally he still didn’t trust his knee would hold up until he got through a few games. You could see he was reluctant to put his full weight on that knee in his follow through, which caused the ball to sail high. IIRC that last 2-3 games.

EXACTLY.  He pulled up on all of his throws whenever anyone was anywhere near him.

(01-15-2021, 10:18 PM)PDub80 Wrote: 100% or not Carson was Probowl MVP the year he came back and the offense was awesome.

For fun - or sadness - go look up the individual scores in each game for 06 & 07 seasons. Then realize that if the Bengals could have held opponents to 23 points or fewer the Bengals would have won 12 more games between those seasons and been the #1 or 2 seed in the AFC.... now recall they missed the playoffs each if those seasons by 1 game. Ridiculous.

The Bengals offense w Carson was absolute ?.  But, I think that with Burrow it will be even BETTER!

But he could have been unbelievable and we could have won a few more games and been a hell of a lot better if he hadn't been scared.

[PDub80]

(01-16-2021, 02:41 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I think Carson might have been 100% physically but his problem was that he was scared of his knee getting torn apart again and never followed through on his throws whenever anyone was anywhere near his leg, even if they weren't going to hit him.
EXACTLY.  He pulled up on all of his throws whenever anyone was anywhere near him.

But he could have been unbelievable and we could have won a few more games and been a hell of a lot better if he hadn't been scared.

Scared? Carson?! How about the ***** playing D in 06/07 man up and make a stop? They gave up a TON of points. Carson kicked ass those seasons. Scared??? Pfffft!

Brad, mayne stick to things you know more about... like how Dalton's hog size makes him a better leader.

[*jason*]

(01-16-2021, 02:43 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Scared? Carson?! How about the ***** playing D in 06/07 man up and make a stop? They gave up a TON of points. Carson kicked ass those seasons. Scared??? Pfffft!

Brad, mayne stick to things you know more about... like how Dalton's hog size makes him a better leader.

Seem to remember a terrible Santonio Holmes return TD, and a missed Shayne Graham FG that would've put us in the playoffs in 06 too... In fact I think they had 3 chances to win one game, and blew all 3 in spectacular fashion.

[Tony]

(01-15-2021, 05:56 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Yeah, that image of Kimo’s shoulder just crushing his knee will be branded into my brain forever.

Always thought that ********* did it on purpose. .. Acting all caring after it happened was a bigger slap in the face... POS

[Tony]

(01-16-2021, 02:53 PM)jason Wrote: Seem to remember a terrible Santonio Holmes return TD, and a missed Shayne Graham FG that would've put us in the playoffs in 06 too... In fact I think they had 3 chances to win one game, and blew all 3 in spectacular fashion.

I think Grahm shanked an extra point in Denver To send the game to OT.... I really hated Grahm Cracker ever since then....

[*jason*]

(01-16-2021, 04:22 PM)Tony Wrote: I think Grahm shanked an extra point in Denver To send the game to OT.... I really hated Grahm Cracker ever since then....

Yeah... It was in Denver.

And I think the Holmes return TD was on the overtime kickoff in the season finale.