.

[Yojimbo]

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[*psychdoctor*]

(01-20-2021, 03:12 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Bengals will be rolling over $10.7 million from last year to 2021. Should help soften the blow of a reduced salary cap.

I do not have source, but I read somewhere, the Bengals will have 5th most cap space in the league. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-20-2021, 03:54 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I do not have source, but I read somewhere, the Bengals will have 5th most cap space in the league. 

They do.

Here are the Top 5 teams in terms of cap (note that this is assuming the salary cap minimum of $175 mill):
1) JAX - $74.5 mill
2) IND - $68.6 mill
3) NYJ - $65 mill
4) NE - $54.8 mill
5) CIN - $34.97 mill

So the Bengals are still $20 mill away from the 4th highest team.

As I mentioned in parentheses above, the cap numbers are based on the league cap being $175 mill before roll-over. If this number ends up being higher, all teams will go up by that increase.

[CJD]

(01-20-2021, 04:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They do.

Here are the Top 5 teams in terms of cap (note that this is assuming the salary cap minimum of $175 mill):
1) JAX - $74.5 mill
2) IND - $68.6 mill
3) NYJ - $65 mill
4) NE - $54.8 mill
5) CIN - $34.97 mill

So the Bengals are still $20 mill away from the 4th highest team.

As I mentioned in parentheses above, the cap numbers are based on the league cap being $175 mill before roll-over. If this number ends up being higher, all teams will go up by that increase.

So does that mean that the 10.7 million being rolled over will be added to our 34.97 million?

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-20-2021, 05:00 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So does that mean that the 10.7 million being rolled over will be added to our 34.97 million?

I believe it's already included.

Spotrac has our current spending at roughly 150 million with roughly 35 mil in space.  At a 175 million cap, 150 obviously only leaves you with 25 mil in space (10 mil in space seemingly missing).  So I think the rollover is what brings us to 35 mil.

[Wes Mantooth]

Here is the current projections for team cap space. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2021/

One very important thing that I think is often overlooked is players under contract, or in this link the "signed" column. You can't only go by dollars available, as the amount of players you need to sign with those dollars is equally important.

As an example, if you just look at space you might assume we can only spend slightly more than a team like Tampa Bay, who is right behind us. (Cin at 35, Tampa at 29). But if you look closer they only have 30 players under contract for 2021. They need to fill 18 more spots than we currently do.

Another thing to consider, the top 51 players on your payroll is what counts towards your cap. (This may be going up to 53, but I can't remember). So if you see teams with a huge amount of players signed (Colts at 61) it does not necessarily mean they're much better off. It gets very confusing with dead money players still accounted for, waived players, practice squad, etc. Just know that at 48 players signed we're not doing terribly bad in spots to fill (Pretty much average)

[*ochocincos*]

(01-20-2021, 05:09 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I believe it's already included.

Spotrac has our current spending at roughly 150 million with roughly 35 mil in space.  At a 175 million cap, 150 obviously only leaves you with 25 mil in space (10 mil in space seemingly missing).  So I think the rollover is what brings us to 35 mil.

It is included.

The big hit to cap space has been COVID. Salary cap could drop as far down as $175 mill, but it could be less of a drop and end up actually being somewhere between $185-195 mill. We should get that info sometime in Feb I believe.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Also worth remembering that $34.97m is before any cuts are made. If they cut the people they should cut, it'll be a whole lot more.

Cutting...
Hart saves $5.9m
Uzomah saves $5.3m
Hopkins saves $4.3m
Bernard saves $4.1m
Finney saves $3.5m
...which is $23.1m. Which is pretty amazing when you figure that the top G and top C in FA will probably be a combined $26m, so you'd be able to cut very little good production and add a 2nd Team All-Pro G and a 1st Team All-Pro C for only $2.9m more.

- - - - -
I've started to believe that Price will be kept as a backup G/C, though cutting him would save another $2.1m.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-20-2021, 06:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Also worth remembering that $34.97m is before any cuts are made. If they cut the people they should cut, it'll be a whole lot more.

Cutting...
Hart saves $5.9m
Uzomah saves $5.3m
Hopkins saves $4.3m
Bernard saves $4.1m
Finney saves $3.5m
...which is $23.1m. Which is pretty amazing when you figure that the top G and top C in FA will probably be a combined $26m, so you'd be able to cut very little good production and add a 2nd Team All-Pro G and a 1st Team All-Pro C for only $2.9m more.

- - - - -
I've started to believe that Price will be kept as a backup G/C, though cutting him would save another $2.1m.

Correct. All the guys you listed are probably not worth the amount of money they would currently make in 2021.
Don't forget Atkins too, who has a savings of $9.6 mill.


The only downside of cutting any of these guys is that's yet another roster spot to fill.

[*psychdoctor*]

Do these numbers reflect others leaving like AJ Green and Atkins?

I am all for cutting some players, but cutting player like Hopkins would be risky unless the sign a top tier center and draft maybe Creed or that kid from Kentucky.

[*Synric*]

Last month they had 42 to 45mil free cap space with the 10m roll over.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-20-2021, 07:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Correct. All the guys you listed are probably not worth the amount of money they would currently make in 2021.
Don't forget Atkins too, who has a savings of $9.6 mill.


The only downside of cutting any of these guys is that's yet another roster spot to fill.

I still think Atkins will be fine now that he's gotten the surgery he obviously needed all year.

Hopkins and Finney are the same position, and would be replaced by the FA C in that case.

Hart would be replaced by Jonah if the Bengals manage to get Sewell, or if he's not there, probably a 2nd round pick.

Backup RBs can be easily replaced with UDFA or late round picks and it's time Mixon stepped up and took on a bellcow workload anyway if he's going to be worth that contract.

Uzomah maybe spend some of that original $35m on a TE. Or if Sewell isn't there, take Chase at #5. With 3 real good WRs, you really don't need to replace Uzomah.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-20-2021, 07:22 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Do these numbers reflect others leaving like AJ Green and Atkins?

I am all for cutting some players, but cutting player like Hopkins would be risky unless the sign a top tier center and draft maybe Creed or that kid from Kentucky.

Green, yes.  Atkins, no.

Players who have contracts that are expiring are all accounted for.  Players like Atkins, who may get cut, are not.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-20-2021, 07:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Last month they had 42 to 45mil free cap space with the 10m roll over.

You know, you're right.  Good catch.  I distinctly remember seeing a 42.x figure not too long ago.

[*psychdoctor*]

(01-20-2021, 07:43 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Green, yes.  Atkins, no.

Players who have contracts that are expiring are all accounted for.  Players like Atkins, who may get cut, are not.

So if they cut Atkins, is it another 12-14 mil?  Also, if I am reading this right, 8 mil will be in dead cap space for next two years?  

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-20-2021, 07:51 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: So if they cut Atkins, is it another 12-14 mil?  Also, if I am reading this right, 8 mil will be in dead cap space for next two years?  

He carries a total of 5.2 mil in dead cap if he's cut in 2021.  

We'd save 9.6 mil if we move on for this year.  We'd also save the full 16.05 mil in space in 2022 by moving on early, as he would carry no dead cap beyond 2021.

He's an obvious cut.  I know some people don't like to hear that, but with the amount of holes we have, and with what we're paying DJ Reader, it makes no sense to keep him at these amounts.  The only way it makes sense if he agrees to restructure his deal and take a signifcant pay cut.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-20-2021, 04:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They do.

Here are the Top 5 teams in terms of cap (note that this is assuming the salary cap minimum of $175 mill):
1) JAX - $74.5 mill
2) IND - $68.6 mill
3) NYJ - $65 mill
4) NE - $54.8 mill
5) CIN - $34.97 mill

So the Bengals are still $20 mill away from the 4th highest team.

As I mentioned in parentheses above, the cap numbers are based on the league cap being $175 mill before roll-over. If this number ends up being higher, all teams will go up by that increase.

that is a big difference from 4th to 5th... i think many thought we had much more cap space.. I know we can create some more with cuts but that also applies to most other teams also so those numbers are fluid not just for us for all other teams also...

[Luvnit2]

(01-20-2021, 08:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: He carries a total of 5.2 mil in dead cap if he's cut in 2021.  

We'd save 9.6 mil if we move on for this year.  We'd also save the full 16.05 mil in space in 2022 by moving on early, as he would carry no dead cap beyond 2021.

He's an obvious cut.  I know some people don't like to hear that, but with the amount of holes we have, and with what we're paying DJ Reader, it makes no sense to keep him at these amounts.  The only way it makes sense if he agrees to restructure his deal and take a signifcant pay cut.

I may be wrong, but think if they cut Geno after june 1st, they can spread the dead cap money over 2021 and 2022. So 9.6 becomes closer to 12 million in 2021 and 13.5 in 2022.

[Luvnit2]

(01-20-2021, 05:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here is the current projections for team cap space.  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2021/

One very important thing that I think is often overlooked is players under contract, or in this link  the "signed" column.  You can't only go by dollars available, as the amount of players you need to sign with those dollars is equally important.

As an example, if you just look at space you might assume we can only spend slightly more than a team like Tampa Bay, who is right behind us. (Cin at 35, Tampa at 29).  But if you look closer they only have 30 players under contract for 2021.  They need to fill 18 more spots than we currently do.

Another thing to consider, the top 51 players on your payroll is what counts towards your cap. (This may be going up to 53, but I can't remember).  So if you see teams with a huge amount of players signed (Colts at 61) it does not necessarily mean they're much better off.  It gets very confusing with dead money players still accounted for, waived players, practice squad, etc.  Just know that at 48 players signed we're not doing terribly bad in spots to fill (Pretty much average)

You said the key thing, the top 51 count towards the cap figure. The cash spend which I think is over 4 years average has to be a certain percent considers all players salaries including practice squad, cuts (dead money) and any player salary paid over that 4 year period.

Again, I agree I am no expert and this is all very confusing. But I do know the top 51 count towards the cap each year.

[NATI BENGALS]

I thought the roll over and cap spend requirements went away with the new contract that was recently negotiated?