Let talk Tackles

[samhain]

(02-13-2021, 09:37 PM)JSR18 Wrote: No, you'd have the current RT-- Bobby "Turnstile" Hart still letting good Edge rushers and blitzing LBers get a free runn at Burrow.

Hart has to be replaced!!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Oh, I'll drive the bus to the airport if we unload Hart.  Even so, the guard play was even worse, sadly.

[samhain]

(02-14-2021, 12:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, much of the fault for those perceived whiffs by Hart looked to me to be a complete lack of communication and understanding of assignment on the part of the Guard playing next to him.  Bobby Hart is actually an effective run blocker.  Upgrading the quality of Guard next to Hart could dramatically improve his effectiveness, as well as his perception in the minds of casual observers, by being able to establish a penetrating rushing attack.

Again, I want Bobby out of here, but he had not only substandard guards next to him, but a rotating cast of them.  XSF was hurt and played LG for most of his career.  He's probably our best guard, but still a very average kind of player.  Spain was new to the team and also a career LG.  Redmond is awful and a penalty machine.  Fred Johnson showed that he's a far better backup tackle than guard.  

[fredtoast]

(02-14-2021, 12:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, much of the fault for those perceived whiffs by Hart looked to me to be a complete lack of communication and understanding of assignment on the part of the Guard playing next to him.

That seemed to be the biggest problem all along the line.  It appeared that most of the sacks allowed were to be due more to an inability to pick up stunts and blitzes than guys just getting beaten physically.  The Ravens got something like 5 sacks from DBs against us.  That is a problem with coaching or communication instead of physical talent.

When there is a missed assignment it is hard to tell which player messed up.  But when it seems to be happening with ALL of the o-linemen I have to look at the coach to blame.

[CoachGeorge]

(02-14-2021, 03:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When there is a missed assignment it is hard to tell which player messed up.  But when it seems to be happening with ALL of the o-linemen I have to look at the coach to blame.

I would far more attribute it to the lack of reps/continuity which obvious has been a hallmark of this line for at least two years.

[Joelist]

And the last two years are the (thankfully ended) reign of Jim Turner.

As to the Tackles, the big issue is Hart can't play on an island which forces us to keep a RB/TE in to assist him.

[fredtoast]

(02-14-2021, 10:21 PM)Joelist Wrote: As to the Tackles, the big issue is Hart can't play on an island which forces us to keep a RB/TE in to assist him.

I don't see this at all.  Every team in the league uses RBs and TEs to help with pass blocking.  What makes you say Bengals do it more with Hart?  I'd be interested to see if anyone has actually studied this. 

[JSR18]

(02-14-2021, 03:07 PM)samhain Wrote: Oh, I'll drive the bus to the airport if we unload Hart.  Even so, the guard play was even worse, sadly.

100% agreed. I'd prefer starting with Hart though...

[SuperBowlBound!]

I re-watched most of the Alabama - ND Rose Bowl game to key on LT Eichenberg and LG Banks. Although I thought they both played well enough in that game and were pretty physical. Eichenberg did not grade out as well by PFF for that game. Eichenberg will probably go middle second to middle third depending on the run of Lineman. Banks is probably middle third to middle fourth. I am not a ND fan but they have produced a lot of NFL Offensive Line players like Zack Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson, Nick Martin and Mike McGlinchey. For that reason I would be ok in drafting these guys in the 2nd - 4th rounds especially if we sign a couple of established FA lineman so we would not need to depend on these guys day 1.

For some reasonI think we will trade back and draft Darrisaw with the 15-20 pick. I will be hoping Sewell or Chase falls to us in the first though.

[schroomytunes]

For me I think the real problem was the interior line all season. Our tackles were average, but the interior was horrible!!! What I would like to see to address it is this:

Cutso-line)

1) B.Hart-5.9
2) BJ Finney-3.75
3) M.Jordan-.975

-savings 10.6

FA

1) Austin Reiter-C (Chiefs)
2) Matt Feiler-RG/RT (Steelers)

Draft:

1) Christian Darrisaw-RT (VA Tech) we trade back and pick up at least a 3rd rd
3) Deonte Brown-RG (Alabama) possible he's available here in 3rd rd good guy to start/groom now.

Starters in 2021

LT- Williams
LG- XSF/Brown
C-Reiter
RG- Feiler
RT- Darrisaw

BAckups

Price
Adeniji
Johnson
XSF/Brown
Hopkins-IR

[SuperBowlBound!]

(02-16-2021, 04:24 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: Starters in 2021

LT- Williams
LG- XSF/Brown
C-Reiter
RG- Feiler
RT- Darrisaw

The biggest pickup in FA to me is Thuney. His experience and level of play is invaluable.

Not a big fan of Brown. The games I watched of him he seems lazy out there and does not play until the whistle blows.
I like picking up a Center and going after Feiler in FA. Feiler actually grades out better as a RT than a RG according to PFF.
They also think he would be a good target for the Bengals.

LT - Williams
LG - Thuney
C - Reiter
RG - XSF/Spain
RT - Feiler

Draft:
1. Chase/Pitts
2. Eichenberg
or
1. Sewell
2. Bateman

Best would be 
Trade back to 15-20
1. Darrisaw
2. Jayson Oweh/Zaven Collins
2a. Eichenberg

[Essex Johnson]

(02-16-2021, 04:24 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: For me I think the real problem was the interior line all season. Our tackles were average, but the interior was horrible!!! What I would like to see to address it is this:

Cutso-line)

1) B.Hart-5.9
2) BJ Finney-3.75
3) M.Jordan-.975

-savings 10.6

FA

1) Austin Reiter-C (Chiefs)
2) Matt Feiler-RG/RT (Steelers)

Draft:

1) Christian Darrisaw-RT (VA Tech) we trade back and pick up at least a 3rd rd
3) Deonte Brown-RG (Alabama) possible he's available here in 3rd rd good guy to start/groom now.

Starters in 2021

LT- Williams
LG- XSF/Brown
C-Reiter
RG- Feiler
RT- Darrisaw

BAckups

Price
Adeniji
Johnson
XSF/Brown
Hopkins-IR

I would resign Hart and move him to guard, sign a FA guard or tackle and center and draft Sewell or Darrisaw or Slater with 5th pick.
cut: Johnson, Jordan, Finley

[Essex Johnson]

(02-14-2021, 03:07 PM)samhain Wrote: Oh, I'll drive the bus to the airport if we unload Hart.  Even so, the guard play was even worse, sadly.

well PFF had Hart at 4 sacks 19th in league and 3 penalties... with playing a total of 872 snaps. Rating was 66% which I believe ended up highest on the line... 

[pulses]

(02-16-2021, 01:50 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I re-watched most of the Alabama - ND Rose Bowl game to key on LT Eichenberg and LG Banks. Although I  thought they both played well enough in that game and were pretty physical. Eichenberg did not grade out as well by PFF for that game. Eichenberg will probably go middle second to middle third depending on the run of Lineman. Banks is probably middle third to middle fourth. I am not a ND fan but they have produced a lot of NFL Offensive Line players like Zack Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson, Nick Martin and Mike McGlinchey. For that reason I would be ok in drafting these guys in the 2nd - 4th rounds especially if we sign a couple of established FA lineman so we would not need to depend on these guys day 1.

For some reasonI think we will trade back and draft Darrisaw with the 15-20 pick. I will be hoping Sewell or Chase falls to us in the first though.

They have another OG Tommy Kraemer who should be available on day 3 who should be a starter somewhere as well.

[Benton]

We need at least one guard and two tackles.

Two?

Yeah.

I think Jonah is good, but he's only as good as his backup. If we take a Sewell or a Darrisaw or whoever, then Jonah is only as good as... Hart. And that's what we need to avoid.

Hopefully we can pick up a guard and a tackle in FA, draft a tackle in the draft and hope Jonah makes it long enough get the rookie up to speed.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-16-2021, 09:00 PM)Benton Wrote: We need at least one guard and two tackles.

Two?

Yeah.

I think Jonah is good, but he's only as good as his backup. If we take a Sewell or a Darrisaw or whoever, then Jonah is only as good as... Hart. And that's what we need to avoid.

Hopefully we can pick up a guard and a tackle in FA, draft a tackle in the draft and hope Jonah makes it long enough get the rookie up to speed.

move Hart to guard.. he played better than any other lineman last year especially our guards.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-16-2021, 09:32 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: move Hart to guard.. he played better than any other lineman last year especially our guards.

Jonah was our best o-lineman.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-16-2021, 09:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jonah was our best o-lineman.

By end of year, Hart was playing better i believe and he played over 200 more snaps than Williams .. regardless Hart outplayed all guards.. I have no problem moving him to guard... he is a veteran that actually has improved each year for Bengals.. where as Jordan regressed...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-16-2021, 09:38 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: By end of year, Hart was playing better i believe and he played over 200 more snaps than Williams .. regardless Hart outplayed all guards.. I have no problem moving him to guard... he is a veteran that actually has improved each year for Bengals.. where as Jordan regressed...

Jordan was never any good. Hard to regress from bad to worse. If we don’t cut Hart I’d keep him at OT, and focus on OG in FA. If we still draft Sewell kick Jonah inside since he played there at Alabama, and he’s probably physically better suited for it anyway.

[pulses]

(02-16-2021, 09:00 PM)Benton Wrote: We need at least one guard and two tackles.

Two?

Yeah.

I think Jonah is good, but he's only as good as his backup. If we take a Sewell or a Darrisaw or whoever, then Jonah is only as good as... Hart. And that's what we need to avoid.

Hopefully we can pick up a guard and a tackle in FA, draft a tackle in the draft and hope Jonah makes it long enough get the rookie up to speed.

I would even draft a LT late in the draft.....Kayode Awosika OT would be a steal and he has experience on both sides.

[samhain]

(02-16-2021, 08:40 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: well PFF had Hart at 4 sacks 19th in league and 3 penalties... with playing a total of 872 snaps. Rating was 66% which I believe ended up highest on the line... 

So you think he's good, then?