Cap impact for Bengals 2021 Opponents

[Luvnit2]

Looking at our 2021 schedule, we play the NFC Central where all 4 teams are in cap trouble as of today. All over the projected cap prior to the draft. Then, also Chiefs, Raiders and Steelers who we play twice are over the cap as of now.

So, 50% of our schedule has major work to do to restructure, cut or trade players to get under the cap in 2021.

I know many threads about this topic, but Bengals are in a great position to sign a lot of vets at a decent price. They could even shed Atkins, Hart and Gio and have more money to build the team in FA.

If there was every a year to have cap money, this is the year in my opinion. The Ravens are in good shape now, but that is only if they do not have to restructure Orlando Brown contract in 2021, he is being paid severely low and may hold out for new contract or a trade. If they trade him, that don't save much in cap space and would have to add a replacement RT. Brown wants to be paid like a starting LT, not starting RT.

It will be interesting, I hope the projected 175 million in cap stays there or only goes to 180 million. If so, lots of teams will be in scramble mode.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 01:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Looking at our 2021 schedule, we play the NFC Central where all 4 teams are in cap trouble as of today. All over the projected cap prior to the draft. Then, also Chiefs, Raiders and Steelers who we play twice are over the cap as of now.

So, 50% of our schedule has major work to do to restructure, cut or trade players to get under the cap in 2021.

I know many threads about this topic, but Bengals are in a great position to sign a lot of vets at a decent price. They could even shed Atkins, Hart and Gio and have more money to build the team in FA.

If there was every a year to have cap money, this is the year in my opinion. The Ravens are in good shape now, but that is only if they do not have to restructure Orlando Brown contract in 2021, he is being paid severely low and may hold out for new contract or a trade. If they trade him, that don't save much in cap space and would have to add a replacement RT. Brown wants to be paid like a starting LT, not starting RT.

It will be interesting, I hope the projected 175 million in cap stays there or only goes to 180 million. If so, lots of teams will be in scramble mode.

Orlando Brown is being a little dramatic IMO about paid like a LT vs RT.
There are 6 RTs who make $10+ mill APY, the highest being Lane Johnson at $18 mill.
There are only two LTs making more APY than Lane Johnson - Bakhtiari ($23 mill) and Tunsil ($22 mill).

The reality is Orlando Brown hasn't been a Top 10 OT in the league in any season he's played (he was 24th highest OT in 2020 according to PFF), so it's unrealistic for him to get paid like one.
Does he deserve to get paid $10+ mill APY? Sure. But being a LT vs RT seems more like position preference rather than contract. He can get paid well regardless of whether he plays LT or RT.

[Luvnit2]

(02-11-2021, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Orlando Brown is being a little dramatic IMO about paid like a LT vs RT.
There are 6 RTs who make $10+ mill APY, the highest being Lane Johnson at $18 mill.
There are only two LTs making more APY than Lane Johnson - Bakhtiari ($23 mill) and Tunsil ($22 mill).

The reality is Orlando Brown hasn't been a Top 10 OT in the league in any season he's played (he was 24th highest OT in 2020 according to PFF), so it's unrealistic for him to get paid like one.
Does he deserve to get paid $10+ mill APY? Sure. But being a LT vs RT seems more like position preference rather than contract. He can get paid well regardless of whether he plays LT or RT.

The issue is I believe in 2021 his contract pays him only 1.3 million. So, I think whether he is starting RT where he grades out as top 5 to 10 in league or a LT where he did well when Stanley went down, he deserves a ton more money from the Ravens or he should sit out or demand a trade.
But knowing Ravens, they will pay him and when they do, there goes their cap money for 2021 (or a lot of it and theme of this thread).

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 02:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The issue is I believe in 2021 his contract pays him only 1.3 million. So, I think whether he is starting RT where he grades out as top 5 to 10 in league or a LT where he did well when Stanley went down, he deserves a ton more money from the Ravens or he should sit out or demand a trade.
But knowing Ravens, they will pay him and when they do, there goes their cap money for 2021 (or a lot of it and theme of this thread).

I know he made a tweet on Jan 29 that said "I'm a LEFT tackle," so I'm not sure it's about money.
He didn't quote anything, so I don't know enough context for why he posted that.

If it is more about money vs position, I am not sure the Ravens can afford to pay both him and Ronnie Stanley, or at least not unless they avoid other positions. 
Stanley's cap hit is $15.25 mill in 2021 and goes up about $2-3 mill each year after until ultimately $23.25 mill in 2025. He realistically couldn't be moved until 2024 due to the crazy amount of guaranteed money they owe him.

BAL only has $29 mill in cap space to work with for 2021, so they can't pay Brown a huge extension for this year. It could be a good boost (maybe $8 mill or so) and then go up in subsequent years though.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-11-2021, 02:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The issue is I believe in 2021 his contract pays him only 1.3 million. So, I think whether he is starting RT where he grades out as top 5 to 10 in league or a LT where he did well when Stanley went down, he deserves a ton more money from the Ravens or he should sit out or demand a trade.
But knowing Ravens, they will pay him and when they do, there goes their cap money for 2021 (or a lot of it and theme of this thread).

They have $29m, so it's not like they're hurting for cap space since they're not the Bengals who look at $40m and say "$15m".

The Ravens also only have $92m in cap commitments for 2022 right now, so they can kick the can down the road a bit more.

Of course that all is dependent upon if they blow up their team by signing Lamar Jackson to a huge extension, which they might have to do despite his huge postseason red flags and lack of passing game.

Ravens need to just accept they're a running/defense team that just needs a game manager, and get a king's ransom for Jackson by someone foolish enough who doesn't have a great running game and spectacular defense already. Last two years the Ravens have had 2 700+ yard (5.0 YPC) RBs each each that aren't named Lamar Jackson. They also haven't had a defense that isn't Top-3 since 2017.

[Joelist]

The 29 million they have the Rats under seems predicated on a 185 million cap not the 175 currently projected. They also seem to have a lot of players who are UFAs this offseason including several starters. So they are up in the air.

[Joelist]

(02-11-2021, 05:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They have $29m, so it's not like they're hurting for cap space since they're not the Bengals who look at $40m and say "$15m".

The Ravens also only have $92m in cap commitments for 2022 right now, so they can kick the can down the road a bit more.

Of course that all is dependent upon if they blow up their team by signing Lamar Jackson to a huge extension, which they might have to do despite his huge postseason red flags and lack of passing game.

Ravens need to just accept they're a running/defense team that just needs a game manager, and get a king's ransom for Jackson by someone foolish enough who doesn't have a great running game and spectacular defense already. Last two years the Ravens have had 2 700+ yard (5.0 YPC) RBs each each that aren't named Lamar Jackson. They also haven't had a defense that isn't Top-3 since 2017.

To me they should move Jackson to WR or RB and draft a REAL QB who actually has touch on his passes. 

[Luvnit2]

(02-11-2021, 05:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They have $29m, so it's not like they're hurting for cap space since they're not the Bengals who look at $40m and say "$15m".

The Ravens also only have $92m in cap commitments for 2022 right now, so they can kick the can down the road a bit more.

Of course that all is dependent upon if they blow up their team by signing Lamar Jackson to a huge extension, which they might have to do despite his huge postseason red flags and lack of passing game.

Ravens need to just accept they're a running/defense team that just needs a game manager, and get a king's ransom for Jackson by someone foolish enough who doesn't have a great running game and spectacular defense already. Last two years the Ravens have had 2 700+ yard (5.0 YPC) RBs each each that aren't named Lamar Jackson. They also haven't had a defense that isn't Top-3 since 2017.

The Ravens situation with Brown was not the main discussion of this thread, I think I even said they probably pay him.

But, we play 50% of our games in 2021 against team who right now have cap problems, one the Lions also has no good receivers under contract. How do they keep them? Other like Packers have a very good running back that may hit the FA since they can't afford him.

The point being is those in cap hell, have a lot of work to do to stay competitive in 2021, teams like the Chiefs are deep and not as big a deal, but they too will have to make some tough calls.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 05:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They have $29m, so it's not like they're hurting for cap space since they're not the Bengals who look at $40m and say "$15m".

The Ravens also only have $92m in cap commitments for 2022 right now, so they can kick the can down the road a bit more.

Of course that all is dependent upon if they blow up their team by signing Lamar Jackson to a huge extension, which they might have to do despite his huge postseason red flags and lack of passing game.

Ravens need to just accept they're a running/defense team that just needs a game manager, and get a king's ransom for Jackson by someone foolish enough who doesn't have a great running game and spectacular defense already. Last two years the Ravens have had 2 700+ yard (5.0 YPC) RBs each each that aren't named Lamar Jackson. They also haven't had a defense that isn't Top-3 since 2017.

Lamar Jackson is what makes that offense run.
He was the team's leading rusher, and his mobility is why they are able to run the ball well.
If you put just a game manager QB back there, how much of a rushing threat is he going to be?
If not much, opponents will be able to key in on the RB and really make their offense ineffective.

Luckily, since Jackson was drafted in 1st round, they get the 5th year option, which isn't until 2022, so they can avoid paying him a big contract for 2021, but they will really be hurting if they give a payday to Jackson, Stanley, and Orlando Brown. They would basically always have to use draft picks or cheap FAs for their offensive weapons.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-11-2021, 06:03 PM)Joelist Wrote: To me they should move Jackson to WR or RB and draft a REAL QB who actually has touch on his passes. 

I wouldn't go that far. I think Lamar Jackson IS a QB, it's just I think his ceiling is an Alex Smith kind of QB rather than a Patrick Mahomes kind of QB. If you have a good defense and a good running game, he can consistently churn out winning seasons. He's just not good enough to carry an offense or carry a team through the postseason.

(02-11-2021, 06:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Ravens situation was Brown was not the main discussion of this thread, I think I even said they probably pay him.

But, we play 50% of our games in 2021 against team who right now have cap problems, one the Lions also has no good receivers under contract. How do they keep them? Other like Packers have a very good running back that may hit the FA since they can't afford him.

The point being is those in cap hell, have a lot of work to do to stay competitive in 2021, teams like the Chiefs are deep and not as big a deal, but they too will have to make some tough calls.

I think the 50% cap problems thing won't be a huge deal when all is said and done. The good teams will manage to shift around money until the cap rises some more next year. 

This might be more of an issue if it was at the $175m cap that was the proposed amount, but $185m means there's probably really only a couple teams in true trouble. 

The Chiefs minus a couple players are still way better than most teams. The same with a lot of the real good teams. The Packers minus Aaron Jones still has Aaron Rodgers, Devante Adams, a really good OL, and an above-average defense.

(02-11-2021, 06:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Lamar Jackson is what makes that offense run.
He was the team's leading rusher, and his mobility is why they are able to run the ball well.
If you put just a game manager QB back there, how much of a rushing threat is he going to be?
If not much, opponents will be able to key in on the RB and really make their offense ineffective.

Luckily, since Jackson was drafted in 1st round, they get the 5th year option, which isn't until 2022, so they can avoid paying him a big contract for 2021, but they will really be hurting if they give a payday to Jackson, Stanley, and Orlando Brown. They would basically always have to use draft picks or cheap FAs for their offensive weapons.

The really good OL and a really good defense is what makes that offense run. 

Ravens Scoring Defense Last 2 Years:
2nd
3rd

Ravens Rushing Offense Minus Lamar Last 2 Years:
8th
7th
(That's basically just removing 160 plays off their stats and they're still easily top-10.)

Ravens Passing Offense Last 2 Years:
32nd
29th

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 07:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I wouldn't go that far. I think Lamar Jackson IS a QB, it's just I think his ceiling is an Alex Smith kind of QB rather than a Patrick Mahomes kind of QB. If you have a good defense and a good running game, he can consistently churn out winning seasons. He's just not good enough to carry an offense or carry a team through the postseason.


I think the 50% cap problems thing won't be a huge deal when all is said and done. The good teams will manage to shift around money until the cap rises some more next year. 

This might be more of an issue if it was at the $175m cap that was the proposed amount, but $185m means there's probably really only a couple teams in true trouble. 

The Chiefs minus a couple players are still way better than most teams. The same with a lot of the real good teams. The Packers minus Aaron Jones still has Aaron Rodgers, Devante Adams, a really good OL, and an above-average defense.


The really good OL and a really good defense is what makes that offense run. 

Ravens Scoring Defense Last 2 Years:
2nd
3rd

Ravens Rushing Offense Minus Lamar Last 2 Years:
8th
7th
(That's basically just removing 160 plays off their stats and they're still easily top-10.)

Ravens Passing Offense Last 2 Years:
32nd
29th

You're still really downplaying Jackson's rushing yards IMO. He averaged 62.5 rush yards per game.
The Ravens averaged 363 total YPG, so without Jackson's rushing, they'd be down to just 300 YPG.
That would put them at 30th in the NFL in YPG.

A better strategy for BAL if they want to pay Orlando Brown but not pay (or can't pay) a big contract to Jackson would be to draft another QB with more promise than a "game manager" and still have that cheap contract.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-11-2021, 08:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You're still really downplaying Jackson's rushing yards IMO. He averaged 62.5 rush yards per game.
The Ravens averaged 363 total YPG, so without Jackson's rushing, they'd be down to just 300 YPG.
That would put them at 30th in the NFL in YPG.

A better strategy for BAL if they want to pay Orlando Brown but not pay (or can't pay) a big contract to Jackson would be to draft another QB with more promise than a "game manager" and still have that cheap contract.

Yes, because Lamar Jackson threw for less than 184 yards per game. That's not a reason why he drives the offense, that's a reason why an offense needs more passing attack than that.

Fact is even if you remove all of his rushes and replace all those plays with 0 yards, they're still a Top-8 rush offense each of the last 2 years. Mark 30 y/o Mark Ingram, UDFA Gus Edwards, JK Dobbins. Doesn't matter who they're putting back there, they're pumping out 5.0+ YPC seasons behind that OL and with the defense making it so they can always run for wins. Heck, Dobbins just ran for 6.0 YPC.

When the opposing team scores at least 23 points, Lamar Jackson is 3-9 career as a starter. Mahomes has 6 such wins just in 2020. 

The Ravens success revolves around their OL and their D.

[Frank Booth]

The ravens don’t have a good offense I don’t care what you say. A 1 dimensional offense doesn’t get the job done

[*Synric*]

(02-11-2021, 06:02 PM)Joelist Wrote: The 29 million they have the Rats under seems predicated on a 185 million cap not the 175 currently projected. They also seem to have a lot of players who are UFAs this offseason including several starters. So they are up in the air.

A very large part of their defensive front is going into free agency. Matthew Judon, Yannick Ngakoue, Pernell McPhee, Tyus Boswer, Derek Wolfe.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-11-2021, 06:03 PM)Joelist Wrote: To me they should move Jackson to WR or RB and draft a REAL QB who actually has touch on his passes. 

LOL. They should move on from a QB that won an MVP a year ago, and is younger than Joe Burrow? Spicy take.

[*jason*]

(02-11-2021, 10:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: LOL. They should move on from a QB that won an MVP a year ago, and is younger than Joe Burrow? Spicy take.

I wish they would. Lamar owns the Bengals

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-11-2021, 11:50 PM)jason Wrote: I wish they would. Lamar owns the Bengals

Yep. I miss the days we’d pick off Flacco 2-3x a game. We always seemed to have his number even when they were really good.

[Joelist]

We only get owned by Jackson because we royally suck at stopping the run. The reality is that Jackson is not that good of a passer - he has one speed on his throws and little to no touch. Realistically he did not deserve MVP this year and has coasted on the Rats OL, run game and defense.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-12-2021, 12:24 AM)Joelist Wrote: We only get owned by Jackson because we royally suck at stopping the run. The reality is that Jackson is not that good of a passer - he has one speed on his throws and little to no touch. Realistically he did not deserve MVP this year and has coasted on the Rats OL, run game and defense.

I think you meant last year, but he absolutely deserved it. He passed for 36 TD (1st in the NFL) to only 6 INT’s, had a 66.1 completion %, 113 rating, and oh yeah also ran for 1200 yds and 7 TD. He was an absolute stud that year.

[Joelist]

I'd have given it to Mahomes as he won a Lombardi.