Franchise tag or Transition Tag?

[schroomytunes]

Ok it's clear to me and the NFL that we have 2 guys that we can actually justify using this on this year. FT we get 2 first round picks, whereas TT we get first dibs to match, or get nothing.

1) Carl Lawson
2) William Jackson

DE:
FT-17,775.000
TT- 14,811.000

CB:
FT- 15,266.000
TT-13,202.000

-Although hardly used I could see the Bengals actually using the TT on Carl Lawson this year, forcing another team to outbid them during a tight salary cap year, and it allows them to address it in the draft and in FA. I think if they play their cards right they can do some damage in FA, by grabbing some salary cap cuts, which are already happening. ( Watt, Easton) Easton wouldn't be a bad guy to have!

Cuts:
1) Geno Atkins 9.6
2) Bobby Hart- 5.9
3) BJ Finney-3.25
4) Ryan Finley-1.0
5) M.Jordan .975

total=@20.5 million to be added to roughly 25 of availible cap space= 46 million.

[*Synric*]

(02-13-2021, 12:11 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: Ok it's clear to me and the NFL that we have 2 guys that we can actually justify using this on this year. FT we get 2 first round picks, whereas TT we get first dibs to match, or get nothing.

1) Carl Lawson
2) William Jackson

DE:
FT-17,775.000
TT- 14,811.000

CB:
FT- 15,266.000
TT-13,202.000

-Although hardly used I could see the Bengals actually using the TT on Carl Lawson this year, forcing another team to outbid them during a tight salary cap year, and it allows them to address it in the draft and in FA. I think if they play their cards right they can do some damage in FA, by grabbing some salary cap cuts, which are already happening. ( Watt, Easton) Easton wouldn't be a bad guy to have!

Cuts:
1) Geno Atkins 9.6
2) Bobby Hart- 5.9
3) BJ Finney-3.25
4) Ryan Finley-1.0
5) M.Jordan .975

total=@20.5 million to be added to roughly 25 of availible cap space= 46 million.

You're off a little. The numbers for Carl Lawson are what I believe will be close what he will get in Free agency.

On a $180.5M cap the franchise tag numbers should be

QB- $24.828M
WR- $15.808M
CB- $14.895M
LB- $14.630M
DE- $14.530M
DT- $13.736M
OL- $13.602M
S- $10.496M
TE- $8.496M
RB- $8.074M
P/K- $4.433M

— Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC) February 7, 2021

[samhain]

I think Lawson is the guy you pay out of the 2, but his injury history is an issue. The tag in either form creates resentment. It's still a viable option IMO. You can in no way afford to lose both players. You need to primarily build around Burrow, but the defense is deficient at multiple positions.

Semi-related question: if you as an organization feel obligated to pay top dollar for a guy like Carl Lawson but are hesitant for whatever reason, then why not direct that big money to another less risky and proven pass rusher like Barrett who has both the talent and the numbers to justify the money? I'm good with Lawson getting paid, but I think it's a valid question.

[Bilbo Saggins]

If someone is going to pay Lawson that much, they may as well tag and trade him. This D with a healthy WJ3 and a (finally) healthy Lawson wasn't much to write home about. I like both players, but don't see how it's good strategy to overpay either of them. What would make sense to me from a macro-strategy point of view would be to neglect the D(it'll be bad anyway), go all-in on the offense in the near term, and try to fortify the defense once Burrow's side of the ball looks like it's close to being set. 

[schroomytunes]

I in no way want to pay either of them that kind of money, because I don't think they are worth it IMO. Both have injury histories, and we already have top dollar at the other CB spot(Waynes). I would rather use say FT money on:

1) Jon Feliciano-G (Bills) @ 8 million

2) Mackenzie Alexander- 6 million.

then draft a DE, and go with a mid tier guy like Jabaal Sheard for rotational depth.

DE: 2021
1) Sam Hubbard
2) Khalid Kareem
3) Jabaal Sheard
4) Jason Oweh- 2nd rd (Penn St)
5) Chris Rumph-5th rd (Duke)

DT

1) DJ Reader
2) Josh Topou
3) Renell Wren
4) Draft or Covington/Daniels

- Hubbard can move inside on passing downs, and we get some young edge rushers, while shoring up an offensive line hole, and bringing back a nice slot CB.

O-Line

LT- Williams
LG- Feliciano
C-Draft/Price
RG- XSF/adeniji
RT- Draft/FA Sewell/Slater/Darrisaw

CB

1) Waynes
2) Philips
3) Alexander
4) Draft
5) low FA pickup

WR
1) Boyd
2) Higgins
3) Draft
4) FA pickup
5) Tate
6) Thomas/Washington

[jfkbengals]

(02-13-2021, 12:11 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: Ok it's clear to me and the NFL that we have 2 guys that we can actually justify using this on this year. FT we get 2 first round picks, whereas TT we get first dibs to match, or get nothing.

1) Carl Lawson
2) William Jackson

DE:
FT-17,775.000
TT- 14,811.000

CB:
FT- 15,266.000
TT-13,202.000

-Although hardly used I could see the Bengals actually using the TT on Carl Lawson this year, forcing another team to outbid them during a tight salary cap year, and it allows them to address it in the draft and in FA. I think if they play their cards right they can do some damage in FA, by grabbing some salary cap cuts, which are already happening. ( Watt, Easton) Easton wouldn't be a bad guy to have!

Cuts:
1) Geno Atkins 9.6
2) Bobby Hart- 5.9
3) BJ Finney-3.25
4) Ryan Finley-1.0
5) M.Jordan .975

total=@20.5 million to be added to roughly 25 of availible cap space= 46 million.

Pretty sure I saw the transition cost for a DE is north of 16 million...

[J24]

They have to franchise Lawson if they don't get a deal done before the deadline.

[CJD]

Good lord, I hope we stay away from the tags this year. None of our free agents are worth top 5 money at their position and will almost certainly sign long term contracts at much lower AAVs. But if they, for some reason, think they are worth that money, I hope the Bengals would be smart enough to allow them to go out and find someone else willing to pay them that.

We have a lot of needs this off season and the #1 priority needs to be protecting Burrow. If we lost Lawson AND WJIII because they signed for much higher than the franchise tag price, it would suck but it wouldn't threaten the future of our franchise.

Failing to get 3 new high quality starters through free agency and the draft, on the other hand, DOES threaten the future of our franchise.

I am not of the opinion that we NEED to be competitive next year. It would be nice if we were, but if you gave me the option of having a good defense at the expense of our Oline and making the playoffs while allowing Burrow to suffer more minor injuries throughout the year, I would turn it down. We need to sign either Thuney, Scherff or Williams in free agency and we need to draft at least 2 Olinemen in the first 3 rounds.

Worry about defense at a later date if that is what is necessary to protect Joe.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

That's a no from me on both for both.

~$30m for a 5.5 sack DE and a 1 INT CB is a terrible idea. You can go out and get the two best OL FA for that amount.

Even if you retain both Lawson and Jackson (for 1 year), you're still left with the 26th Overall/22nd scoring defense from 2020, only now you're down $30m in cap space. What does that possibly do to move the needle towards Ws?

[*jason*]

(02-13-2021, 06:38 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Good lord, I hope we stay away from the tags this year. None of our free agents are worth top 5 money at their position and will almost certainly sign long term contracts at much lower AAVs. But if they, for some reason, think they are worth that money, I hope the Bengals would be smart enough to allow them to go out and find someone else willing to pay them that.

We have a lot of needs this off season and the #1 priority needs to be protecting Burrow. If we lost Lawson AND WJIII because they signed for much higher than the franchise tag price, it would suck but it wouldn't threaten the future of our franchise.

Failing to get 3 new high quality starters through free agency and the draft, on the other hand, DOES threaten the future of our franchise.

I am not of the opinion that we NEED to be competitive next year. It would be nice if we were, but if you gave me the option of having a good defense at the expense of our Oline and making the playoffs while allowing Burrow to suffer more minor injuries throughout the year, I would turn it down. We need to sign either Thuney, Scherff or Williams in free agency and we need to draft at least 2 Olinemen in the first 3 rounds.

Worry about defense at a later date if that is what is necessary to protect Joe.

This....

The game has all but legislated defense out of itself. Quite frankly neither Lawson or Jackson are worth breaking the bank over.... They're pretty good, and nothing more. It'd be nice to keep them, but someone else can overpay for them.

[*Synric*]

Jason La Canfora says the Bengals are prepared to tag Carl Lawson.

Quote:This franchise doesn't love the tag, but Lawson is one of the best players on a bad defense that already needs help all over. Letting this pass rusher go – who had a strong 2021 back to full health – after his quality second half of the season doesn't make sense, and I'm told the Bengals are prepared to tag him. Some believe corner William Jackson may be the Bengal who gets the tag but I am hearing more buzz about Lawson.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-13-nfl-players-2021-franchise-tag-chances-by-tiers-from-sure-things-to-playing-a-hunch/

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(02-13-2021, 12:11 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: Ok it's clear to me and the NFL that we have 2 guys that we can actually justify using this on this year. FT we get 2 first round picks, whereas TT we get first dibs to match, or get nothing.

1) Carl Lawson
2) William Jackson

DE:
FT-17,775.000
TT- 14,811.000

CB:
FT- 15,266.000
TT-13,202.000

-Although hardly used I could see the Bengals actually using the TT on Carl Lawson this year, forcing another team to outbid them during a tight salary cap year, and it allows them to address it in the draft and in FA. I think if they play their cards right they can do some damage in FA, by grabbing some salary cap cuts, which are already happening. ( Watt, Easton) Easton wouldn't be a bad guy to have!

Cuts:
1) Geno Atkins 9.6
2) Bobby Hart- 5.9
3) BJ Finney-3.25
4) Ryan Finley-1.0
5) M.Jordan .975

total=@20.5 million to be added to roughly 25 of availible cap space= 46 million.

Cutting Finley will probably cost the Bengals more than they'd save.

He'd have $394,828 dead money so would represent a notional saving of $652,856 but cutting him would leave an extra roster spot to fill.

Similarly cutting Michael Jordan would leave $244,146 dead money and represent a notional saving of $727,902 but again with an extra roster spot to fill.

Last year the minimum wage for someone with 2 years on a NFL roster was $750,000.

[BengalsRocker]

(02-13-2021, 09:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's a no from me on both for both.

~$30m for a 5.5 sack DE and a 1 INT CB is a terrible idea. You can go out and get the two best OL FA for that amount.

Even if you retain both Lawson and Jackson (for 1 year), you're still left with the 26th Overall/22nd scoring defense from 2020, only now you're down $30m in cap space. What does that possibly do to move the needle towards Ws?

That's why it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they signed O-line FAs and let Lawson & Jackson walk.

Then trade back for Surtain making the next two picks DE/WR or another lineman.

I wouldn't love passing on Chase or Pitts but I could understand the move.

Not my favorite scenario. I'm not sold on some 1st rd college CBs that are grabby in coverage.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-14-2021, 11:54 AM)Synric Wrote: Jason La Canfora says the Bengals are prepared to tag Carl Lawson.


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-13-nfl-players-2021-franchise-tag-chances-by-tiers-from-sure-things-to-playing-a-hunch/

Hopefully they can reach a multi year deal, with an AAV a little less than the tag number.  I'm sure that many will point to Lawson's injury history, and lack of "eye popping" stats, but the truth is Lawson is a very effective pass rusher.  With a healthy compliment of DTs drawing attention in the middle of the field, Lawson might just be able to put up one of those big sack totals that everyone worships.

[*ochocincos*]

Most I would do is TT. If another team wants to beat that offer, let them have him.
I like both Lawson and WJ3, but I don't consider either of them to be Top 5 at their position.

[PikesPeakUC]

Bring back Lawson and Jackson. They're both players in positions of need. I think Jackson is more important, though, if I had to choose between the two of them.

[kevin]

I think one of the cheapest franchise tags is punter, and I think Huber contract is up. We need Huber when we don't move the chains, which is often. Plus we can always count on Mike Brown doing the cheapest thing.

I posted a while back, AJ, Ross and some other names whos contracts are up that get paid more than others, I see this as adding by subtraction. I mean, the team is pretty lousy. I say free up some money and continue the Rebuild New Day or New Dey. Is Price contract up, because there is another one. I think Williams contract up at Safety, and I've seen better. You know, when you finish in last place every year, what the heck are you trying to hang on to.

So if Huber is without a contract, just tag him, it's CHEAP, and Mike likes that. Some of these stiffs we can resign, but I don't care if they all walk. That's how bad the team has been for years now. Modern Football, a team like Bengals stinks it up bad for years now, and yet players say they deserve a raise. In no other business would you get that. The Bengals are in Last Place, so anybody could finish in Last Place, and some New Players just might climb OUT of Last Place.

I loved when Last Place Bengals had players like Blake and Pickens walk, and they said who are you going to get to replace us. Then they went to other teams and the teams didn't want them. The idea that they are going to be better some place else is a joke. Now there have been Bengals that I hated to see leave, such as a Bill Bergey or Corey Dillon. I look at the sad sacks ready to leave Bengals for Free Agent Market in 2021, and I say, Bring In The New Players.

[XenoMorph]

get them on long term deals.... No one has returned from after a tag except the kicker

[*Synric*]

More info saying the Bengals plan to tag Lawson.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/02/afc-north-notes-ravens-judon-lawson-bengals-jackson-steelers-dupree

Quote:Carl Lawson is on the precipice of free agency for the first time, separating him from a few of this year’s UFA edge rushers. But the Bengals may not be willing to let him go. The Bengals are prepared to use their franchise tag on Lawson, Jason La Canfora of CBS Sports notes. While some believe the team would rather tag cornerback William Jackson, more buzz has emerged about the team keeping the four-year defensive end cog. Although Lawson only tallied 5.5 sacks last season, his 32 quarterback hits ranked second in the NFL.

32 QB hits rank second in the NFL in 2020 and hes tied for 11th with 83 QB hits over his 4 year rookie deal (even missing alot of time during 2 seasons and with limited snap numbers in another).