Housh gets it

[Destro]

Get an elite WR who can get back to the huddle quickly after the QB gets sacked before you can even execute your double move. If Burrow is good, he'll get the ball to the WRs, RBs and TEs and a future HOF WR player won't be needed to win. Even elite WRs need to get the ball thrown to them. The yahtzee of an O-Line and hoping for the best will be ANOTHER disaster.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-23-2021, 09:54 PM)Destro Wrote: Get an elite WR who can get back to the huddle quickly after the QB gets sacked before you can even execute your double move. If Burrow is good, he'll get the ball to the WRs, RBs and TEs and a future HOF WR player won't be needed to win. Even elite WRs need to get the ball thrown to them. The yahtzee of an O-Line and hoping for the best will be ANOTHER disaster.

Yep, we can do without elite weapons but with a terrible O-line we can't do shit man no matter the weapons.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-23-2021, 09:54 PM)Destro Wrote: Get an elite WR who can get back to the huddle quickly after the QB gets sacked before you can even execute your double move. If Burrow is good, he'll get the ball to the WRs, RBs and TEs and a future HOF WR player won't be needed to win. Even elite WRs need to get the ball thrown to them. The yahtzee of an O-Line and hoping for the best will be ANOTHER disaster.

Literally no one thinks the OL is fine as it’s currently constructed. I wish people would stop implying that those that want a WR feel it is.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-23-2021, 10:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Literally no one thinks the OL is fine as it’s currently constructed. I wish people would stop implying that those that want a WR feel it is.

I think he might be implying that the coaches and FO think it is fine.

I doubt this. The FO said as much that they will be concentrating on protecting Burrow and of course Pollack already said it.

Used to be a time when we had a coach that said the O-line was fine when it wasn't though.

[Destro]

(02-23-2021, 10:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Literally no one thinks the OL is fine as it’s currently constructed. I wish people would stop implying that those that want a WR feel it is.

Not sure who has said or implied that, just know that I am not one of them. I am in the camp of getting a WR at #5 is a poor choice. That is it. No secret agenda or trying to link wanting a WR means they dinner date with the O-line. Especially considering I would not say that the WR position is the reason we are picking #5 to begin with. I'd like some more defensive starters, as well. Doesn't mean I'm fine with the O-line.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-23-2021, 10:16 PM)Destro Wrote: Not sure who has said or implied that, just know that I am not one of them. I am in the camp of getting a WR at #5 is a poor choice. That is it. No secret agenda or trying to link wanting a WR means they dinner date with the O-line. Especially considering I would not say that the WR position is the reason we are picking #5 to begin with. I'd like some more defensive starters, as well. Doesn't mean I'm fine with the O-line.

If we take care of the OL and pass rush in FA...

I would be more than fine with Jamarr Chase at 5 and even more fine with Kyle Pitts TE Florida.

It all kind of depends on FA and even if we shore up the OL in FA I still take Sewell, he has THAT kind of upside.

[Destro]

(02-23-2021, 10:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If we take care of the OL and pass rush in FA...

I would be more than fine with Jamarr Chase at 5 and even more fine with Kyle Pitts TE Florida.

It all kind of depends on FA and even if we shore up the OL in FA I still take Sewell, he has THAT kind of upside.

Yeah, the issue is that FA is an "if," since we are battling other teams, plus the player themselves has a lot of flexibility. The draft tends to get you the player who is available at the spot and we just know 4 players will go a we will get one after that. IN FA, we may not get anyone we want, for any kind of reason. 

Kill it in FA, yeah, the options at #5 spring open. I just have a feeling that will not happen and the best we will be able to do is in the draft. 

[Murdock2420]

(02-23-2021, 10:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Literally no one thinks the OL is fine as it’s currently constructed. I wish people would stop implying that those that want a WR feel it is.

I think the issue that is starting to be seen is that getting O-line help in FA is going to be a little more of a challenge if they intend to keep Lawson and WJIII as those contracts will eat up a good chunk of space.

If all they do is get 1 addition in FA for the O-line, then you have to go OL early in often in the draft.

If they sign a few guys in FA, that means you lost Lawson or WJIII and now you need to spend a high pick to replace them while still needing another edge rusher.

It really comes down to number of holes versus number of picks.

WR just isn't a huge need when you have Higgins and Boyd as your top two so if there is a position to ignore till late, it is WR. 

[Murdock2420]

(02-23-2021, 11:21 PM)Destro Wrote: Yeah, the issue is that FA is an "if," since we are battling other teams, plus the player themselves has a lot of flexibility. The draft tends to get you the player who is available at the spot and we just know 4 players will go a we will get one after that. IN FA, we may not get anyone we want, for any kind of reason. 

Kill it in FA, yeah, the options at #5 spring open. I just have a feeling that will not happen and the best we will be able to do is in the draft. 

Exactly.

Everyone is talking about FA like it is a sure thing. The line was crap coming into last year too and they signed one guy in XSF. Top guys have to want to be here, and on top of that, we have to sign our own guys that will eat into the cap.

I could see FA getting us Thuney since it actually seems like he'd be happy to be in the area again. That still leaves a need at T and G. And then with the odds being WJIII is gone, we now need a starting CB... which you don't want to wait on outside round 2 or 3.

Just, too many holes to waste a pick on a luxury not a need.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(02-24-2021, 12:30 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Exactly.

Everyone is talking about FA like it is a sure thing. The line was crap coming into last year too and they signed one guy in XSF. Top guys have to want to be here, and on top of that, we have to sign our own guys that will eat into the cap.

I could see FA getting us Thuney since it actually seems like he'd be happy to be in the area again. That still leaves a need at T and G. And then with the odds being WJIII is gone, we now need a starting CB... which you don't want to wait on outside round 2 or 3.

Just, too many holes to waste a pick on a luxury not a need.

1000000000% correct

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-23-2021, 06:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: Good info.  I'd like to see the targets for each, though, because that makes a big difference on production.  

Scroll up. I added a couple more categories. Targets/target percentage and total targets/receptions/reception percentage. I highlighted the additions. 

[Whatever]

(02-23-2021, 06:22 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: so because his production slowed down due to playing with a bad QB, behind a bad o-line(just like Boyd), that means he isnt a number 1? Ok

He was undoubtedly a #1 with his starting QB. That's all I need to see

Pick up a number 3

The fact that teams had more film to go on to game plan against him is also probably a contributing factor.  That as well as AJ proving he was a shell of his former self and not getting extra attention based on his rep.

Amari Cooper and Allen Robinson didn't fall off a cliff when their QB's went down.  They had over 1100 and 1200 yards, respectively.  They are true #1's, though.

Tee has 2 100 yard games and 0 1000 yard seasons.  To call him a #1 WR at this point is a massive stretch.  He may develop into a #1, but he isn't there yet and hasn't proven it on the field.

[Whatever]

(02-23-2021, 06:36 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Marlon Humphrey is a high end slot corner. It's totally reasonable for a guy like Humphrey to shut down Boyd

Joe Haden would regularly shut down AJ Green. Does that mean AJ Green wasnt a wr1?

Boyd is still one of the top slot receivers in the league. 

If Boyd is a high end slot WR shouldn't he be able to hold his own against a high end slot CB and not get shut down?

Joe Haden was an All Pro CB and regularly got help with AJ.  He wasn't shut down in single coverage by a good/not great CB.

[Murdock2420]

(02-24-2021, 02:00 AM)Whatever Wrote: If Boyd is a high end slot WR shouldn't he be able to hold his own against a high end slot CB and not get shut down?

Joe Haden was an All Pro CB and regularly got help with AJ.  He wasn't shut down in single coverage by a good/not great CB.

In 2019 with no A.J. Green, no Higgins and Ryan Finley starting several games Tyler Boyd had 90 catches for 1046 yards.

The other targets, Auden Tate, Alex Erickson, 8 games of John Ross, Damion Willis and Stanley Morgan Jr.

How in the world can a guy get over a 1000 yards when he is the only target you have to cover and still not be viewed as a high-end/top WR???

Seriously... not many guys in the league would have posted 1000 yards with the garbage that was the 2019 team... but Boyd does and people question him?

[Whatever]

(02-23-2021, 09:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: A few can take the top off and the game to me has evolved more and more away from #1 WR to 2/3 WRs.. the main point with any draft pick vs. veteran is you know what the veteran has done.. draft picks are still potential so does not matter if WR or tackle. I think the difference to me is how many holes we have.. we have many more on the line so that is going to have to get fixed in FA and draft and more pressing need.. so if adding a veteran WR helps us more than taking a draft pick away from Oline or other more pressing concerns so be it. 

You can get a solid veteran G for what you're going to pay for a #3 WR, though.  A lot of people are talking high end G/#3 WR.  Why not go high end G/solid G and know going into the draft that you've shored up the 2 weakest positions on your OL with proven players?  You're not talking a G at 5 and the G spots are by far the biggest weak points in our OL.  Fix them and you have flexibility to take the BPA at 5.  You can take Sewell if he falls and get that offensive weapon in 2-3. You can take Chase or Pitts, too, and maybe get that T to develop for a year behind Hart before throwing him into the fire in the 2nd, when there should still be some good ones available.  Why voluntarily put yourself in a position where you haven't done enough to help your OL so you have to go T at 5 and hope that they beat long odds and are better than Hart as a rookie?  It honestly feels like people are intentionally pushing FA plans that narrow all options at 5 down to best T available, which is very silly.  

[Whatever]

(02-24-2021, 02:11 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: In 2019 with no A.J. Green, no Higgins and Ryan Finley starting several games Tyler Boyd had 90 catches for 1046 yards.

The other targets, Auden Tate, Alex Erickson, 8 games of John Ross, Damion Willis and Stanley Morgan Jr.

How in the world can a guy get over a 1000 yards when he is the only target you have to cover and still not be viewed as a high-end/top WR???

Seriously... not many guys in the league would have posted 1000 yards with the garbage that was the 2019 team... but Boyd does and people question him?

He was 7th in the league in targets, for Pete's sake.  He was 25th in receiving yards.  You can get pretty much any competent WR to 1000 yards if you force them enough targets.  Tate had over 500 yards on 80 targets that year.  If you threw it to him 185 times, like Michael Thomas was, he'd have gotten 1000 easy.  Of course, Thomas got 1700+.  There's a huge difference between a true #1 and a #2 on a bad team that gets a ton of targets because everyone around him is terrible.

[Frank Booth]

(02-24-2021, 01:55 AM)Whatever Wrote: The fact that teams had more film to go on to game plan against him is also probably a contributing factor.  That as well as AJ proving he was a shell of his former self and not getting extra attention based on his rep.

Amari Cooper and Allen Robinson didn't fall off a cliff when their QB's went down.  They had over 1100 and 1200 yards, respectively.  They are true #1's, though.

Tee has 2 100 yard games and 0 1000 yard seasons.  To call him a #1 WR at this point is a massive stretch.  He may develop into a #1, but he isn't there yet and hasn't proven it on the field.

Lmao you’re comparing Brandon Allen and Ryan Finley to Nick Foles and Andy Dalton? Hahah

Stop it

Foles and Dalton are high end back ups. Allen/Finley are 3rd stringers.

You need to come up with something better, because everything you say is easily refutable

[Jason_NC]

(02-24-2021, 12:30 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Exactly.

Everyone is talking about FA like it is a sure thing. The line was crap coming into last year too and they signed one guy in XSF. Top guys have to want to be here, and on top of that, we have to sign our own guys that will eat into the cap.

I could see FA getting us Thuney since it actually seems like he'd be happy to be in the area again. That still leaves a need at T and G. And then with the odds being WJIII is gone, we now need a starting CB... which you don't want to wait on outside round 2 or 3.

Just, too many holes to waste a pick on a luxury not a need.

But the draft is? The draft is even less a sure thing. The guy you want may not last until your pick. And if he does, he may not be a very good pro. This team has demonstrated that frequently, especially with their recent OL picks.

[Whatever]

(02-24-2021, 03:59 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmao you’re comparing Brandon Allen and Ryan Finley to Nick Foles and Andy Dalton? Hahah

Stop it

Foles and Dalton are high end back ups. Allen/Finley are 3rd stringers.

You need to come up with something better, because everything you say is easily refutable

You realize Allen had a better passer rating than Foles last year, right?  You also realize that Dak went down in week 5, so Cooper spent 11 games with a backup vs 5.  The Cowboys also had to have their 3rd(rookie 7th round pick) and 4th(midseason signing off the Browns PS) QB's start games for them?  I guess it's easily refutable if the person doing the refuting doesn't do their homework.

[Frank Booth]

(02-24-2021, 01:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: You realize Allen had a better passer rating than Foles last year, right?  You also realize that Dak went down in week 5, so Cooper spent 11 games with a backup vs 5.  The Cowboys also had to have their 3rd(rookie 7th round pick) and 4th(midseason signing off the Browns PS) QB's start games for them?  I guess it's easily refutable if the person doing the refuting doesn't do their homework.

Brandon Allen isnt better than Nick Foles. Not saying Nick Foles is good, but Allen isnt better.

And you're acting like Dalton is a scrub.

Foles and Dalton are considered the 2 best back ups in the league along with Mariota and Winston

Bengals receivers once Burrow went down had to deal with low end back ups, and a worse offensive line than the bears and even the cowboys.

Higgins. Legit WR1 (until proven otherwise)


Boyd. Top 5 slot receiver