Reverse thoughts

[spazz70]

I have seen several posts about going all in on offense in the draft this year and then work on the defense next year. What about a reversal on this thought. IF we go all out on offense in FA like we did for the defense last year and the losses we may take (WJ3 and Lawson) in FA and Sewell is gone at 5. Let's say we sign an OG (Thuney, Reiff, etc.), and a Center ( Linsley?) and/or RT (Wagner, Williams, Feiler) and a low/med priced speed WR (several going to available).

Now, load up on defense. Trade down and take the best CB and get maybe an extra 2nd rounder. In the 2nd get your edge rusher and maybe another DT or just the BPA (WR, another Edge, DT even an OL (especially if RT is not taken care of in FA)


Just thinking out loud...I get the whole Let's score a bunch of points and hope the defense can hold. I just do not think they are going to throw a ton at the defense in FA again (Lawson and WJ3). There is no guarantee that even the best OL rookie is going to put perform a vet FA. Fix the OL in FA. Having Reader and Waynes back and a top 10 or so pick at CB and a solid edge in the 2nd round would make us more competitive IMO, overall.

I know it is hard not knowing who is going to be there at that 5 pick and that can alter your FA. If you fix the OL in FA then it does not matter if you can or cannot trade down at 5. You are going to have player there worth that pick one way or another.

[Bilbo Saggins]

Jaelan Phillips is about the only defensive prospect who I could potentially foresee being worth pursuing with such a strategy. It should be noted that he is a risky guy with a concussion history, but doesn't play stiff like a 3 technique like a lot of this class's DE prospects do. I just don't see anyone else at D moving the needle as much as getting Sewell or Chase; or trading down while targeting a hopefully competent OL like Slater/Mayfield/Eichenberg/etc. 


How much better can a rookie CB realistically be expected to play vs. WJIII? They've tried to stack up good CBs for years - I'm not sure that that is the way to go unless you have a good core and are just looking for the cherry on top. 

[DYT_Bengal]

There are five players that I’d be willing to trade back if there was a guarantee we would get one. If Sewell is available, we take him. I’m up and down on Surtain and Farley - both have different styles but I think there will be a quality secondary player drop to the second round this year.

[sandwedge]

(03-02-2021, 10:29 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: There are five players that I’d be willing to trade back if there was a guarantee we would get one. If Sewell is available, we take him. I’m up and down on Surtain and Farley - both have different styles but I think there will be a quality secondary player drop to the second round this year.

I agree with that.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Gotta take Sewell if he's there.

That being said, the Bengals need a minimum of 3 legitimately good OL additions this offseason between FA and round 1-2 of the draft (1 OT, 1 OG, 1 C). 4 new OL would be ideal (another OG or OT with Jonah filling in the remaining spot), but 3 is minimum.

Not sure I see the FA math adding up to where they don't have to take at least 1 OL in the first two rounds.

If there's no trade down available, and Sewell isn't available, the only guys I like at #5 are Chase and Pitts (in that order). Not sure I like anyone on defense in this draft that high.


- - - - - - - - -

Of course this is all ignoring the complete lack of faith we should have in Lou Anarumo regardless of who they give him to work with.

[Whatever]

(03-02-2021, 08:42 PM)spazz70 Wrote: I have seen several posts about going all in on offense in the draft this year and then work on the defense next year.  What about a reversal on this thought.  IF we go all out on offense in FA like we did for the defense last year and the losses we may take (WJ3 and Lawson) in FA and Sewell is gone at 5.  Let's say we sign an OG (Thuney, Reiff, etc.), and a Center ( Linsley?) and/or RT (Wagner, Williams, Feiler) and a low/med priced speed WR (several going to available).  

Now, load up on defense.  Trade down and take the best CB and get maybe an extra 2nd rounder.  In the 2nd get your edge rusher and maybe another DT or just the BPA (WR, another Edge, DT even an OL (especially if RT is not taken care of in FA)


Just thinking out loud...I get the whole Let's score a bunch of points and hope the defense can hold.  I just do not think they are going to throw a ton at the defense in FA again (Lawson and WJ3).  There is no guarantee that even the best OL rookie is going to put perform a vet FA. Fix the OL in FA.  Having Reader and Waynes back and a top 10 or so pick at CB and a solid edge in the 2nd round would make us more competitive IMO, overall.

I know it is hard not knowing who is going to be there at that 5 pick and that can alter your FA.  If you fix the OL in FA then it does not matter if you can or cannot trade down at 5.  You are going to have player there worth that pick one way or another.

Offense needs to be the focus in the draft and FA for two main reasons.

Reason #1-Lou Anarumo can be allowed to fail.

Reason #2-Joe Burrow can not be allowed to fail.

From all the reports we've heard, the Bengals knew ZT was going to be a bit of a project.  Fix the offense and get to respectability in the win column and you can make Lou the scapegoat.  Load up on defense again like they did last year and you'll be firing everybody and restarting from scratch.  While that's what a lot of fans want, that's not going to be what management wants.

Reality is, this team is more than a year away from contending.  We don't have enough elite talents, we have gaping holes in our starting lineup, and our depth chart is practically empty at a number of positions.  We can't fix the offense and the defense in one offseason.  If you try to do both, you wind up with a bunch of half measures and don't really accomplish much.  Protect Joe Burrow and give him the weapons he needs to establish himself as an elite QB.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-02-2021, 08:42 PM)spazz70 Wrote: I have seen several posts about going all in on offense in the draft this year and then work on the defense next year.  What about a reversal on this thought.  IF we go all out on offense in FA like we did for the defense last year and the losses we may take (WJ3 and Lawson) in FA and Sewell is gone at 5.  Let's say we sign an OG (Thuney, Reiff, etc.), and a Center ( Linsley?) and/or RT (Wagner, Williams, Feiler) and a low/med priced speed WR (several going to available).  

Now, load up on defense.  Trade down and take the best CB and get maybe an extra 2nd rounder.  In the 2nd get your edge rusher and maybe another DT or just the BPA (WR, another Edge, DT even an OL (especially if RT is not taken care of in FA)


Just thinking out loud...I get the whole Let's score a bunch of points and hope the defense can hold.  I just do not think they are going to throw a ton at the defense in FA again (Lawson and WJ3).  There is no guarantee that even the best OL rookie is going to put perform a vet FA. Fix the OL in FA.  Having Reader and Waynes back and a top 10 or so pick at CB and a solid edge in the 2nd round would make us more competitive IMO, overall.

I know it is hard not knowing who is going to be there at that 5 pick and that can alter your FA.  If you fix the OL in FA then it does not matter if you can or cannot trade down at 5.  You are going to have player there worth that pick one way or another.

While I applaud the "outside the box" thought process, the real VALUE for the picks this year seem to be on the offensive side of the ball.  DE, DT, and even LB is very thin at the top.  There is a really good WR, OT, G, and TE class this year, and that is where the value would lie in the later rounds.  

[spazz70]

(03-03-2021, 11:09 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I applaud the "outside the box" thought process, the real VALUE for the picks this year seem to be on the offensive side of the ball.  DE, DT, and even LB is very thin at the top.  There is a really good WR, OT, G, and TE class this year, and that is where the value would lie in the later rounds.  

I agree but responding to this and the other posts...If you fix the OL in FA and use later picks to develop OL (if Sewell is not there) then it leaves you wide open for pick 5 (BPA or trade).  I do not want to see both OTs and our QB come into contract years back to back to back, which we will have if we draft a top tier OT this year.  That will be a nightmare and you know what the Bengals will do, drop one of the OTs and have another exposure on the line.

We have a ton wrapped up in FA defense if we resign one of Lawson or WJ3 and Alexander and probably another LBer.  With Reader and Waynes added last year already.  I think the OL needs fixed in FA and open the draft, that is all.  If you can upgrade the IOL and get a Leatherwood or one of the ND tackles in 2 then the offense should be in good shape, an improved running game and time for Burrow to throw.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-03-2021, 11:53 AM)spazz70 Wrote: I agree but responding to this and the other posts...If you fix the OL in FA and use later picks to develop OL (if Sewell is not there) then it leaves you wide open for pick 5 (BPA or trade).  I do not want to see both OTs and our QB come into contract years back to back to back, which we will have if we draft a top tier OT this year.  That will be a nightmare and you know what the Bengals will do, drop one of the OTs and have another exposure on the line.

We have a ton wrapped up in FA defense if we resign one of Lawson or WJ3 and Alexander and probably another LBer.  With Reader and Waynes added last year already.  I think the OL needs fixed in FA and open the draft, that is all.  If you can upgrade the IOL and get a Leatherwood or one of the ND tackles in 2 then the offense should be in good shape, an improved running game and time for Burrow to throw.

I completely support "fixing the oline in FA" and trying to open up your options at #5, including a bounty of picks to trade back.  Perhaps I misunderstood when you mentioned the first two picks then going defense, because that wouldn't be the worst idea provided the back 75% of the draft would focus on the offensive side of the ball, given the relative lack of depth for the defensive side of the ball in the draft.

One of my goals is to give Burrow that transcendent weapon, though, and Chase or Pitts (not my first choice at all, but if they slide back and Smith and Waddle are also gone) could fill that role.  

[Bilbo Saggins]

I somehow missed Ojulari in my previous assessment.  Holy shit he is exciting.  My 1A and 1B are Sewell & Chase, 1C.5 would be Pitts, but 1C would have to be a trade down where they nab a guy like Ojulari(or an underdog OL who works out).  It'll be very interesting to see how he measures out.  If his frame can max out at say a Jerry Hughes type of level, this guy has monster potential in any scheme.  Until he hits that weight he could fill that Pats style role of playing OLB on early downs and kicking ass as a rusher on 3rd down.

[BengalsRocker]

(03-03-2021, 01:56 AM)Whatever Wrote: Offense needs to be the focus in the draft and FA for two main reasons.

Reason #1-Lou Anarumo can be allowed to fail.

Reason #2-Joe Burrow can not be allowed to fail.

From all the reports we've heard, the Bengals knew ZT was going to be a bit of a project.  Fix the offense and get to respectability in the win column and you can make Lou the scapegoat.  Load up on defense again like they did last year and you'll be firing everybody and restarting from scratch.  While that's what a lot of fans want, that's not going to be what management wants.

Reality is, this team is more than a year away from contending.  We don't have enough elite talents, we have gaping holes in our starting lineup, and our depth chart is practically empty at a number of positions.  We can't fix the offense and the defense in one offseason.  If you try to do both, you wind up with a bunch of half measures and don't really accomplish much.  Protect Joe Burrow and give him the weapons he needs to establish himself as an elite QB.  

This ^

In a perfect world the Bengals get a plethora of talent to fill positions on both sides of the ball.

It's just not reality even though we all hope that could be the outcome.

The team desperately needs to shore up a strength and identity on one side or the other right now.

Fixing the O-line to protect your most valuable asset is key and getting a gamebreaker type player to help not only Burrow but also Taylor is too.

Grabbing mid-level to mediocre talent at a bunch of spots is just putting a band-aid on things.

I think loading the Offense should be the litmus test for the FO to decide on ZT's future.