Jeremy Hill far ahead of his production last year

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-27-2015, 02:28 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I keep saying that I just think that's when he runs from the gun because he can't get a full head of steam going forward.

Even when he went from the I and would stutter step, he would still be able to reach full acceleration quickly, whereas he's just not running full speed ahead form the gun when he gets the ball and it takes an extra second for him to get going, which also allows the defense to be in better position.

But it's happening in one on one situations anywhere on the field, particularly wide, near the sideline on several runs i've seen this year.

[BFritz21]

(10-27-2015, 02:43 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But it's happening in one on one situations anywhere on the field, particularly wide, near the sideline on several runs i've seen this year.

Maybe, but, in the first few games, he was dominating like he was in the second half of the year last year before the fumbles caused him to be benched.

I'd just like to see him get the ball with Andy under center a good amount of times so he can get back into a rhythm.

Especially since it's starting to get cold here in Cincinnati and the rest of the AFCN, I think we need to be able to feed the ball to Hill between the tackles.

Two games- Arizona and San Fran- look like they'll be the only games where it's even remotely warm for the rest of the year (next two might be decent weather).

Plus, Hue keeps saying that Hill's the starter, and I don't think we'll go into a place like Pittsburgh and try to win a shootout.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-27-2015, 02:57 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Maybe, but, in the first few games, he was dominating like he was in the second half of the year last year before the fumbles caused him to be benched.

I'd just like to see him get the ball with Andy under center a good amount of times so he can get back into a rhythm.

Especially since it's starting to get cold here in Cincinnati and the rest of the AFCN, I think we need to be able to feed the ball to Hill between the tackles.

Two games- Arizona and San Fran- look like they'll be the only games where it's even remotely warm for the rest of the year (next two might be decent weather).

Plus, Hue keeps saying that Hill's the starter, and I don't think we'll go into a place like Pittsburgh and try to win a shootout.

He's had several really good runs. It's just a matter of time before he gets it together and starts playing like he was last year.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-27-2015, 02:57 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Maybe, but, in the first few games, he was dominating like he was in the second half of the year last year before the fumbles caused him to be benched.

I'd just like to see him get the ball with Andy under center a good amount of times so he can get back into a rhythm.

Especially since it's starting to get cold here in Cincinnati and the rest of the AFCN, I think we need to be able to feed the ball to Hill between the tackles.

Two games- Arizona and San Fran- look like they'll be the only games where it's even remotely warm for the rest of the year (next two might be decent weather).

Plus, Hue keeps saying that Hill's the starter, and I don't think we'll go into a place like Pittsburgh and try to win a shootout.

So derail the offense that is unstoppable just for Jeremy Hill?
Okay. 

Btw, the cold weather thing is a myth.
How bad has it slowed Brady and Rodgers? 

[*Synric*]

(10-27-2015, 01:29 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: So derail the offense that is unstoppable just for Jeremy Hill?
Okay. 

Btw, the cold weather thing is a myth.
How bad has it slowed Brady and Rodgers? 

I wouldn't change the offense for weather but playing in the cold does in fact suck.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-26-2015, 04:44 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: That's every division though.
Bell as "tough gritty between the tackles runner" is a myth anyways. He's more one cut go and make people miss. His size is misleading. He's not a traditional power back. He's probably better on the outside zones than anyone else his size right now. Not saying he's not good at all things, he is...but his money is outside zone. 

Rice hasn't been shit for 3 years. Now he's out of the league. 

We have one. We just have no reason to use it. And until someone stops the 4 headed monster, why stop? 

You're missing my point....high winds, snow, what have you, could stop it....that's why I feel teams in this division need a workhorse back(s).  Unless you have Brady or Rodgers, you might need to take the focus away from the passing game.  Try telling Tampa and Miami the weather issue is a myth.

I'm well aware who is what here.....the fact remains they have/had formidable run games, and now we do too.

As for every division?  Nah....not the south or west divisions in either conference.

As a side note, I see folks saying Gio is easy to bring down....I haven't seen that this season. I've seen Gio trucking some fools and moving piles. That's pretty doggone impressive.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-27-2015, 03:33 PM)Synric Wrote: I wouldn't change the offense for weather but playing in the cold does in fact suck.

That's a stone cold fact.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-27-2015, 03:33 PM)Synric Wrote: I wouldn't change the offense for weather but playing in the cold does in fact suck.

Run blocking in the cold is the absolute worst. Every block feels like your hands are about to shatter. 

(10-27-2015, 04:26 PM)Wyche Wrote: You're missing my point....high winds, snow, what have you, could stop it....that's why I feel teams in this division need a workhorse back(s).  Unless you have Brady or Rodgers, you might need to take the focus away from the passing game.  Try telling Tampa and Miami the weather issue is a myth.

I'm well aware who is what here.....the fact remains they have/had formidable run games, and now we do too.

As for every division?  Nah....not the south or west divisions in either conference.

As a side note, I see folks saying Gio is easy to bring down....I haven't seen that this season.  I've seen Gio trucking some fools and moving piles.  That's pretty doggone impressive.

The last time we played in a game like that, didn't Dalton light a team up? We have a workhorse back...two of them right now. Until weather actually shows it will slow us, why even worry about it? 
You should use GOOD teams not Miami and Tampa who haven't been good in....10 years running....

(10-27-2015, 04:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: That's a stone cold fact.

Absolutely is. 

[BFritz21]

(10-27-2015, 01:29 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: So derail the offense that is unstoppable just for Jeremy Hill?
Okay. 

Btw, the cold weather thing is a myth.
How bad has it slowed Brady and Rodgers? 

Don't derail the offense, just make it more balanced, and, even if it was derailing it, it wouldn't be derailing it for Jeremy, but rather the entire team.

Dalton is having his best year, but that can be pointed to personal improvements, which is obvious just by watching him.

A successful Hill will only make Andy better.

Cold weather thing is a myth?  Have you ever thrown a football or caught one in the cold in Cincinnati?  And it will only be colder in Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Cleveland.

And you're really saying that two HOF QBs playing a certain way should be the basis for other comparisons?

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-27-2015, 05:37 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Don't derail the offense, just make it more balanced, and, even if it was derailing it, it wouldn't be derailing it for Jeremy, but rather the entire team.

Dalton is having his best year, but that can be pointed to personal improvements, which is obvious just by watching him.

A successful Hill will only make Andy better.

Cold weather thing is a myth?  Have you ever thrown a football or caught one in the cold in Cincinnati?  And it will only be colder in Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Cleveland.

And you're really saying that two HOF QBs playing a certain way should be the basis for other comparisons?

The entire team is flourishing under the spread with Dalton and Gio in shotgun.
You are essentially admitting you want this offense to stop doing what it is doing that is taking us to 6-0

I'm saying if your QB is playing like a top 5 player in the NFL, you don't get scared because it might be too cold. You go out there and run your offense then adjust. Players now have access to so many things. It's really overblown. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-27-2015, 05:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Run blocking in the cold is the absolute worst. Every block feels like your hands are about to shatter. 


The last time we played in a game like that, didn't Dalton light a team up? We have a workhorse back...two of them right now. Until weather actually shows it will slow us, why even worry about it? 
You should use GOOD teams not Miami and Tampa who haven't been good in....10 years running....


Absolutely is. 

Ok.....ask the 81 Chargers

I recall Andy struggling mightily in a game with a crap ton of wind.....not sure which game you're referring to.  I'm not really talking about just cold....I'm referring to potentially moderate to severe inclement weather.  It's entirely possible in this division.  You just gotta know that you can pound it when the situation dictates it.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-27-2015, 11:37 PM)Wyche Wrote: Ok.....ask the 81 Chargers

I recall Andy struggling mightily in a game with a crap ton of wind.....not sure which game you're referring to.  I'm not really talking about just cold....I'm referring to potentially moderate to severe inclement weather.  It's entirely possible in this division.  You just gotta know that you can pound it when the situation dictates it.

Wind is different and not really seasonal. 

Why wouldn't be able to "pound it"? 
We did it last year. 

There is 0 reason to just randomly "pound it" until someone stops this offense. 

[BFritz21]

(10-27-2015, 05:40 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: The entire team is flourishing under the spread with Dalton and Gio in shotgun.
You are essentially admitting you want this offense to stop doing what it is doing that is taking us to 6-0

I'm saying if your QB is playing like a top 5 player in the NFL, you don't get scared because it might be too cold. You go out there and run your offense then adjust. Players now have access to so many things. It's really overblown. 

Teams have a good pass rush.  Weather conditions make it tough.  Some teams have better secondaries.  Passing the ball is much more difficult than running it.  

There's many more reasons that having the basis for your offense be a run game is much better than a passing-based offense.  

[*Nately120*]

(10-28-2015, 12:02 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Wind is different and not really seasonal. 

Why wouldn't be able to "pound it"? 
We did it last year. 

There is 0 reason to just randomly "pound it" until someone stops this offense. 

Exactly.  I'd like to see Hill snap out of it, and I assume he WILL but if I told you during the off-season that we were 6-0 and our top RB had a 5.5 YPC and then asked if we should make an effort to work the 3.1 YPC guy more into the offense the answer would be:

"No, if Hill is tearing it up we need to phase Gio out even more!"

But it's ass-backwards and people are freaking out because what's going on right now completely tools with our off-season expectations.  Right now Hill isn't getting it done, and he's going to have to figure it out some way other than just throwing carries his way and hoping he gets better...isn't he? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-28-2015, 12:02 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Wind is different and not really seasonal. 

Why wouldn't be able to "pound it"? 
We did it last year. 

There is 0 reason to just randomly "pound it" until someone stops this offense. 

.....but wind is more common as cold fronts come and go....no?

I don't recall saying to randomly pound it.....I think you're getting me mixed up with Brad.  I simply said it would be nice to know you could.  I'm not seeing that from Hill yet this year....Gio has been a pleasant surprise in that department though.  Here's to hoping he stays healthy , cause if he doesn't......I'm not sold on Hill.  I'd like to see more of him in garbage time to ease my fears a touch.....or compound them

[BFritz21]

(10-28-2015, 05:59 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....but wind is more common as cold fronts come and go....no?

I don't recall saying to randomly pound it.....I think you're getting me mixed up with Brad.  I simply said it would be nice to know you could.  I'm not seeing that from Hill yet this year....Gio has been a pleasant surprise in that department though.  Here's to hoping he stays healthy , cause if he doesn't......I'm not sold on Hill.  I'd like to see more of him in garbage time to ease my fears a touch.....or compound them

I'm not saying "randomly pound it," but I'm saying pound it until the defense proves that they can stop it and pound it to set everything else up.  I'm also not talking about "just pound it with dives up the middle," because even look at Hill's off tackle runs where he'll stutter-step or just slow down until he sees an opening an explodes through it.

There's no way for defenses to load the box to stop that and also have enough people in the secondary to cover our receivers.

Our offense is damn good, and Ben may be hobbled, but does anyone really want to try and win a shootout with a team like Pittsburgh?

[MrRager]

(10-27-2015, 02:17 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Look back and note that I have referenced things or even posted links.

Why do you find it necessary to be a dick in every single post that has anything to do with me or my comments?

Giving Gio a crease wouldn't be as easy because he needs more space since he's smaller and easier to bring down.  You almost have to hit Hill square or get lucky when wrapping his legs that he doesn't overpower you.  It's not as hard to bring Gio down because he's smaller.

As far as the open field, Gio wouldn't be able to get to the open field as easy to be elusive because linebackers and linemen are in the middle of the field to tackle him.

Let me ask you this, genius, if Gio was the answer and able to carry the load between the tackles like we need him to do, why would we draft Hill in the second round a year after taking Gio?  

That question literally has nothing to do with what I was discussing. The team drafted Hill because they thought Gio's skill set does not make him a great in between tackles runner. They may be right, they may be wrong. Gio has been much better between the tackles this year and plenty of small RBs have been able to succeed.


What I was saying was that the attacking nature of run blocking wears a defense out, not specifically tackling Hill. Do you really feel that two tackles on Hill vs. Gio would just ruin a player and wear him out? Also, running the ball generally means you are on the field longer so the defense will be more tired. It does not matter who is running it if you are successful.

Giving Gio a crease may be easier because he is smaller, quicker, and can shoot through a small hole easier. I could also be wrong, but I'm sure you will think I am and continue to act like this idea of yours is a fact without anything to back it up. 

I apologize that I want to look at why running early wears a team out instead of just assuming that it is because Hill is slightly harder to tackle. I apologize that I don't want to rework the entire offense that has been killing it and risk the best season of our young QBs career just to maybe help Hill out. I apologize that continue to contradict yourself and get called out for it, go on tirades about other posters while having no evidence, and defend claims with zero proof. 

[fredtoast]

(10-30-2015, 03:07 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm not saying "randomly pound it," but I'm saying pound it until the defense proves that they can stop it 

Defenses have already proven they can stop Hill when Dalton is under center.  He is only averaging 3.27 yards on 62 carries.

[BFritz21]

(11-03-2015, 05:52 PM)MrRager Wrote: That question literally has nothing to do with what I was discussing. The team drafted Hill because they thought Gio's skill set does not make him a great in between tackles runner. They may be right, they may be wrong. Gio has been much better between the tackles this year and plenty of small RBs have been able to succeed.


What I was saying was that the attacking nature of run blocking wears a defense out, not specifically tackling Hill. Do you really feel that two tackles on Hill vs. Gio would just ruin a player and wear him out? Also, running the ball generally means you are on the field longer so the defense will be more tired. It does not matter who is running it if you are successful.

Giving Gio a crease may be easier because he is smaller, quicker, and can shoot through a small hole easier. I could also be wrong, but I'm sure you will think I am and continue to act like this idea of yours is a fact without anything to back it up. 

I apologize that I want to look at why running early wears a team out instead of just assuming that it is because Hill is slightly harder to tackle. I apologize that I don't want to rework the entire offense that has been killing it and risk the best season of our young QBs career just to maybe help Hill out. I apologize that continue to contradict yourself and get called out for it, go on tirades about other posters while having no evidence, and defend claims with zero proof. 

But an in between the tackles runner is what Hill is, and that's what we need, so what have you been arguing?  If they didn't think we needed that, why would they draft Hill in the 2nd round a year later.  You make absolutely no sense.

Slightly harder to tackle? You think being 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier only makes Hill slightly harder to tackle?  Also Hill's downhill style where he'll just lower his head and bulldoze a defender makes him harder to tackle.

Running the ball early wears a team out because they need to be in better position, and not to mention that, when a team is passing, the defense is rushing the passer, whereas they're trying to hold their ground when we're running the ball, while also trying to disengage blocks, all with 300+ pound men who are putting everything they have into moving them, instead of retreating to block.

(11-03-2015, 08:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Defenses have already proven they can stop Hill when Dalton is under center.  He is only averaging 3.27 yards on 62 carries.

Except no they haven't, not when we let him get into a rhythm.  Last year, with Dalton under center, he averaged 5.4 YPC.  That's when we handed him the ball and let him do his thing.  

[fredtoast]

(11-03-2015, 10:48 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Except no they haven't, not when we let him get into a rhythm.  Last year, with Dalton under center, he averaged 5.4 YPC.  That's when we handed him the ball and let him do his thing.  

Where did you get that stat?

According to ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/16803/year/2014/jeremy-hill) Hill averaged only 4.6 yards per carry when Dalton was under center (168 for 769 yards) last year.

But last year does not matter.  Defense change from year to year, and this year they have proven they can stop Hill.  Of course we still need to keep running from all formations, but we can't just keep giving Hill tha ball with dalton under center when he is averaging less than 3.3 yards per carry