CFL- XFL merger

[*Nately120*]

(03-26-2021, 05:26 PM)J24 Wrote: If the CFL can exist on its own then they wouldn't be listening to the XFL. Neither league is at a position of strength right now. 
Secondly as long as the league doesn't become a complete money pit I can see the NFL wanting to keep it around.( The combination of the XFL- CFL)

Im just saying this move may play into theme american view that the CFL is just where crappy football is played.  Canada ain't likely to follow along with this so if they go full on minor league nfl they're going to have to draw in a lot of American viewers. 

The CFL is different from American football and it's also the only football League to exist long term along side the NFL.  Being a lower tier american football League has been a real kiss of death since 1983 or so. 

I'd wonder if they'd relocate the CFL franchises to the USA.  At any rate, gling full USA football just seems like it would be a bad move. I can't see it pleasing anyone and having a low money league that straddles two countries sounds overly difficult.  

[J24]

(03-26-2021, 05:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Im just saying this move may play into theme american view that the CFL is just where crappy football is played.  Canada ain't likely to follow along with this so if they go full on minor league nfl they're going to have to draw in a lot of American viewers. 

The CFL is different from American football and it's also the only football League to exist long term along side the NFL.  Being a lower tier american football League has been a real kiss of death since 1983 or so. 

I'd wonder if they'd relocate the CFL franchises to the USA.  At any rate, gling full USA football just seems like it would be a bad move. I can't see it pleasing anyone and having a low money league that straddles two countries sounds overly difficult.  

1.) Crappy is way extreme but it is a minor league product. I don't really think Canadians can argue that point. Know one is taking a CFL job over an NFL job. Specifically if you're a player, coach, or GM.

1b.) I think Canadians will get over it. If you're in Saskatchewan or Winnipeg it's not like there is an NFL team close to you where you can watch.  I compare it too how Americans view  the MLS. Yes it isn't a top tier league but where else can I go and watch a professional Soccer?

2.) Yes the CFL has been around a long time but it is also has been  losing a lot of money and that was pre pandemic. It doesn't matter how long it has existed if it doesn't have the money to continue it's just as gone as the USFL, the arena league, and the UFL.

3.) At the very least I could see the XFL buying the Argonauts, Alouettes, and BC Lions. Also I could see the XFL& CFL combining drafts, agreeing to pay scale for players, combining player unions, international player combines, international drafts, and partnerships with other countries federations.

 

[*Nately120*]

(03-26-2021, 06:58 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Crappy is way extreme but it is a minor league product. I don't really think Canadians can argue that point. Know one is taking a CFL job over an NFL job. Specifically if you're a player, coach, or GM.

1b.) I think Canadians will get over it. If you're in Saskatchewan or Winnipeg it's not like there is an NFL team close to you where you can watch.  I compare it too how Americans view  the MLS. Yes it isn't a top tier league but where else can I go and watch a professional Soccer?

2.) Yes the CFL has been around a long time but it is also has been  losing a lot of money and that was pre pandemic. It doesn't matter how long it has existed if it doesn't have the money to continue it's just as gone as the USFL, the arena league, and the UFL.

3.) At the very least I could see the XFL buying the Argonauts, Alouettes, and BC Lions. Also I could see the XFL& CFL combining drafts, agreeing to pay scale for players, combining player unions, international player combines, international drafts, and partnerships with other countries federations.

 

A partnership makes sense, but moving on from the Canadian rules would eliminate the major point of differentiation the CFL has from American football and the short-lived American leagues that have failed in the past 20 years.  It's possible the CFL is just flat out done for, regardless in which case you have to wonder why the XFL would want to bring 9 failing franchises in another country into their developmental league.

I don't know what Canadians would do, but changing the rules to USA football and labeling the league as NFL Jr. would likely lead to what is left of the Canadian franchises needing to relocate to the USA or just be dissolved.  I like the CFL so ideally this would mean everything stays the same with some "CFL" teams in the USA, but that goes against the notion that it will be 4-down football on an American sized field with American rules because it is becoming the NFL minor league.

I just don't see how this could please the Canadian aspect of the CFL, in which case they may as well just reboot the XFL and keep the CFL out of it.

I'll admit that I'm biased because I watch and like the CFL and I have found minor league American rules football to be exceedingly underwhelming.

[J24]

(03-26-2021, 07:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: A partnership makes sense, but moving on from the Canadian rules would eliminate the major point of differentiation the CFL has from American football and the short-lived American leagues that have failed in the past 20 years.  It's possible the CFL is just flat out done for, regardless in which case you have to wonder why the XFL would want to bring 9 failing franchises in another country into their developmental league.

I don't know what Canadians would do, but changing the rules to USA football and labeling the league as NFL Jr. would likely lead to what is left of the Canadian franchises needing to relocate to the USA or just be dissolved.  I like the CFL so ideally this would mean everything stays the same with some "CFL" teams in the USA, but that goes against the notion that it will be 4-down football on an American sized field with American rules because it is becoming the NFL minor league.

I just don't see how this could please the Canadian aspect of the CFL, in which case they may as well just reboot the XFL and keep the CFL out of it.

I'll admit that I'm biased because I watch and like the CFL and I have found minor league American rules football to be exceedingly underwhelming.

I think the XFL is more interested in getting the big three Canadian markets more so than the whole entire league.  If they have to have the other Canadian teams with them then so be it. 

Also I'm not sure the Canadian fans opinion really matters in it. It's going to come down to what's best for TV,  gambling, and what NFL owners think of the league.

I watch the CFL to but I'm not overly into it either. Once the NFL season starts I leave the CFL behind.  I think it's sad for real CFL fans like yourself and Truck to see  a unique brand potentially come to an end.

The league is going to have to make some real changes. Maybe they keep the 3 downs but they will lose the Canadian quoto or maybe they lose everything that makes the CFL unique. Or maybe the CFL keeps everything and the American fan adapts to the CFL game.

[KillerGoose]

(03-26-2021, 04:59 PM)J24 Wrote: Yes the NFL needs a developmental league  to train coaches, refs, and players. Their the only league that doesn't have one. NFL Europe was a huge resource for developing talent.

The NFL already has a developmental league. It's college football.

[J24]

(03-27-2021, 08:39 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The NFL already has a developmental league. It's college football.

And the NBA has college Basketball and yet they still have the g league. So what's your point?

[KillerGoose]

(03-27-2021, 09:10 PM)J24 Wrote: And the NBA has college Basketball and yet they still have the g league. So what's your point?

The G League serves a unique purpose in that high schoolers can play in the G League during their senior year, skipping college. The NBA sees incredibly young talents come into the league, so having a developmental league makes more sense due to the physicality differences. For instance, the Thunder drafted a guy who was 18 years old and 7' tall, 190 pounds, in the first round and who had played in a minor league in Greece. He hadn't played any top basketball talent and was drastically undersized.

 With the NFL, you have to be three years removed from high school, which is generally spent in a collegiate strength and conditioning program. There are also roster size differences. NFL rosters are absolutely massive, so the return from a developmental league is going to be minimal. Chances are if you can't crack the 53 or NFL practice squad, you aren't cut out for it. There are exceptions, but not enough to justify creating another league.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-26-2021, 03:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People are going to see it as 18 games of pre-season football if that is the case.

I doubt it would be a full NFL season league. Probably more like 8-12 games. It also probably wouldn't start until the NFL season started. You get your training camps and preseasons out of the way in the NFL, and once the final roster cuts happen, rather than sending guys to go sit on the couch for the year and hope for a call, they get assigned to your minor league team to go play for 8-12 games. 

They get meaningful experience, development, and a paycheck (probably PS level pay?) and the teams get a place to develop guys and store backups who won't have to rush to learn the playbook (presumably your minor league team would run the same general schemes as your NFL team). No more signing guys off the street, having them learn the playbook in 5 days, and then shoving them into action. Just call up a guy from your minor league team and you know he knows the general ides of what you're doing and is already in game shape.

[*Nately120*]

(03-28-2021, 02:09 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I doubt it would be a full NFL season league. Probably more like 8-12 games. It also probably wouldn't start until the NFL season started. You get your training camps and preseasons out of the way in the NFL, and once the final roster cuts happen, rather than sending guys to go sit on the couch for the year and hope for a call, they get assigned to your minor league team to go play for 8-12 games. 

They get meaningful experience, development, and a paycheck (probably PS level pay?) and the teams get a place to develop guys and store backups who won't have to rush to learn the playbook (presumably your minor league team would run the same general schemes as your NFL team). No more signing guys off the street, having them learn the playbook in 5 days, and then shoving them into action. Just call up a guy from your minor league team and you know he knows the general ides of what you're doing and is already in game shape.

This seems like something the NFL would do on its own rather than make a deal with two other football leagues.  That'd be pretty wacky if the 2020 Bengals QB room was Burrow, Finley, and Allen who was in Montreal.  Also, wouldn't there need to be 32 minor league teams in this case?  Or would our minor league squad merge with the defense of an NFC team, or something?  Well even then you'd need 32 teams so your players were working from your playbook.  

Would a league that is televised backup practice squad scrimmages get any interest?  Even if it does, I dont see why the NFL would send its players and branding to the CFL/XFL for it.  Or is this a way to double the size of your practice squad and make someone else pay for it and then you can just pluck their best players from their league at will? 

I recall the Steelers trying to get Landry Jones from the XFL when they needed depth after Ben went down and the  XFL saying no. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-28-2021, 09:35 AM)Nately120 Wrote: This seems like something the NFL would do on its own rather than make a deal with two other football leagues.  That'd be pretty wacky if the 2020 Bengals QB room was Burrow, Finley, and Allen who was in Montreal.  Also, wouldn't there need to be 32 minor league teams in this case?  Or would our minor league squad merge with the defense of an NFC team, or something?  Well even then you'd need 32 teams so your players were working from your playbook.  

Would a league that is televised backup practice squad scrimmages get any interest?  Even if it does, I dont see why the NFL would send its players and branding to the CFL/XFL for it.  Or is this a way to double the size of your practice squad and make someone else pay for it and then you can just pluck their best players from their league at will? 

I recall the Steelers trying to get Landry Jones from the XFL when they needed depth after Ben went down and the  XFL saying no. 

Presumably 32 minor league teams with one for each. Break it down into AFC and NFC leagues. Then break that down into East and West 8 team conferences. Say an AFC East team plays all 7 teams in their conference, then they have the best record at the end. So they play the best AFC West team (the other 7 teams play just generic games against the other 7) for the AFC Minor League championship. Then the winner of that plays the NFC Minor League champion while the other 15 play the other 15 in a generic game for 1 cross-conference game. Like a mini-minor league SB.  So 9 game season, I guess? (I'm just kind of thinking this up as I am typing.)

I think the league would get some interest televised BECAUSE it would get NFL branding. I think there's a lot of people on this board who would watch the Bengals minor league team, doubly so if they play the Ravens/Browns/Steelers minor league teams. It would also help the NFL spread to the rest of the week while not making NFL scheduling impossible for rest days and the like. NFLm on Tuesday/Wednesday/Friday Night or something like that.

I would assume the team owner has to find a venue and run it's operating costs (while getting it's revenue) and the NFL team would pay the player costs. It could be not just for player development, either. Maybe you really like a young coach called Zac Taylor, but you want him to get some OC experience? Send him to the minor leagues to get that OC and maybe even HC experience before calling him up to be your NFL HC.

Yeah, it would just be a way to expand the backup parts of rosters while ensuring that those players are all in game shape and have at least a general understanding of your schemes. Injuries are going to happen in the NFL, and that could greatly increase the level of backup play. Maybe there's a limited number of guys you can send down on NFL minimum contracts to develop. Guys who you want to get playing experience, but are too raw to risk give playing time for the NFL team right now.

The draft would likely expand again to 9 rounds, with the final 3-4 rounds being mostly guys you'd send to your minor league team.

[J24]

(03-27-2021, 10:34 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The G League serves a unique purpose in that high schoolers can play in the G League during their senior year, skipping college. The NBA sees incredibly young talents come into the league, so having a developmental league makes more sense due to the physicality differences. For instance, the Thunder drafted a guy who was 18 years old and 7' tall, 190 pounds, in the first round and who had played in a minor league in Greece. He hadn't played any top basketball talent and was drastically undersized.

 With the NFL, you have to be three years removed from high school, which is generally spent in a collegiate strength and conditioning program. There are also roster size differences. NFL rosters are absolutely massive, so the return from a developmental league is going to be minimal. Chances are if you can't crack the 53 or NFL practice squad, you aren't cut out for it. There are exceptions, but not enough to justify creating another league.

The G league is for developing players, coaches, and refs. Yes they do have guys that come out of high school but there very few of them.

Go back and look at NFL Europe it was very meaningful for developing players and giving them opportunities that are not currently there.  Particularly for third and 4th string QBs.

[*Nately120*]

The NFL having 32 NFL-branded minor league teams wouldn't really factor into the CFL/XFL merger. If they really wanted to go that route they'd be better off just waiting for the CFL to fold. As it stands now, the CFL has 9 active teams/brands and rosters and the XFL (I assume) has 0 players under contact, so even if they became the NFL minor league they'd still be 23 rosters worth of players short at the moment.

I'm just saying the CFL/XFL becoming an NFL affiliate doesn't make sense because the NFL would be buying 9 CFL teams/brands and however many XFL teams/brands just to immediately phase them out and reassign the players to various NFL minor league rosters. I'd say the main goal of the merger is to infuse some American dollars/interest/TV rights into the mix...I think we're just talking about two very different things with the minor league system and the CFL/XFL existing as a separate entity.

[Murdock2420]

(03-26-2021, 02:08 PM)J24 Wrote: The only chance the CFL and the XFL have at making it long term at this point is with the NFL using them as a developmental league. Similar to the G league with the NBA!

Maybe the CFL can keep the same rules but I highly doubt the NFL would want to use a league that plays by different rules then them to develop their players/coaches/ refs.

I still really wonder why this hasn't actually happened?

Every other major sport uses a developmental league. Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, why is it football thinks they can just toss 10 guys on a practice squad and not miss some hidden gems or guys that are raw and need more time to develop?

I think you could have each team in the XFL supported by 3 NFL teams. Each team has 15 guys that it can send down to the "minors" and that makes a 45 man roster. Then you have 10 to 15 slots to fill in with depth at needed positions of guys that are just free agents. With NFL support financially, the XFL could be a great tool for developing talent and giving fans something to be excited about in the off-season. 

Who knows, maybe we'd finally develop a few late round picks if they were on an XFL roster.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-28-2021, 01:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The NFL having 32 NFL-branded minor league teams wouldn't really factor into the CFL/XFL merger.  If they really wanted to go that route they'd be better off just waiting for the CFL to fold.  As it stands now, the CFL has 9 active teams/brands and rosters and the XFL (I assume) has 0 players under contact, so even if they became the NFL minor league they'd still be 23 rosters worth of players short at the moment.  

I'm just saying the CFL/XFL becoming an NFL affiliate doesn't make sense because the NFL would be buying 9 CFL teams/brands and however many XFL teams/brands just to immediately phase them out and reassign the players to various NFL minor league rosters.  I'd say the main goal of the merger is to infuse some American dollars/interest/TV rights into the mix...I think we're just talking about two very different things with the minor league system and the CFL/XFL existing as a separate entity.

I don't think the players really matter in such a deal. Presumably the teams would want their own players put in there, anyway.

I think the real thing they'd be buying is the infrastructure/stadium leases/markets/etc. Presumably having the framework of 17 functioning teams (9 from CFL, 8 from XFL) already in place would make it easier to add another 15 rather than make 32 from scratch.

Or they could go the MLB Spring Training Arizona route and just make a giant facility out of the way where they have more control over the players since it's more about development and training than fans.

[J24]

It was announced today that the merger is off and they couldn't agree to the deal.

[*Nately120*]

(07-07-2021, 09:04 PM)J24 Wrote: It was announced today that the merger is off and they couldn't agree to the deal.

The xfl isn't slated to start until 2023 at the soonest, so it might not be completely off.  The xfl and usfl merging makes more sense of they're going to attempt to make spring football a thing in the USA. No need to force a league to change rules in that case.  

Alternate USA rules football leagues in the USA hasn't worked in 40 years, but never say never I guess. 

[J24]

(07-14-2021, 12:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The xfl isn't slated to start until 2023 at the soonest, so it might not be completely off.  The xfl and usfl merging makes more sense of they're going to attempt to make spring football a thing in the USA. No need to force a league to change rules in that case.  

Alternate USA rules football leagues in the USA hasn't worked in 40 years, but never say never I guess. 

Arena Football worked in the US for a bit but yeah I think if the Merger happened and they went by CFL rules the league would have been doomed.

As far as Merger Talks go from what I read the CFL- XFL thing is done. I think that will be a relief to die Hard CFL fans like yourself. 

As far as a Merger with the USFL I think it would be interesting but I haven't seen any rumors that suggest that's a possibility at this time.

The most interesting rumors that I have read has been that the XFL is hell bent on being an international league. They are interested in putting a team in Canada and Mexico . One of the rumors that is gaining steam is that the Alouettes will move to the XFL. FYI I would be surprised if that happened I would assume the CFL has rules against that 

My hypothesis is that the XFL will be taking a lot of Ideas and personal from the CFL. In particular I think Ambrose will be the XFL commissioner and the XFL will have its own international draft. ( Not sure that's a big loss for the CFL fans).

[*Nately120*]

(07-14-2021, 02:20 PM)J24 Wrote: Arena Football worked in the US for a bit but yeah I think if the Merger happened and they went by CFL rules the league would have been doomed.

As far as Merger Talks go from what I read the CFL- XFL thing is done. I think that will be a relief to die Hard CFL fans like yourself. 

As far as a Merger with the USFL I think it would be interesting but I haven't seen any rumors that suggest that's a possibility at this time.

The most interesting rumors that I have read has been that the XFL is hell bent on being an international league. They are interested in putting a team in Canada and Mexico . One of the rumors that is gaining steam is that the Alouettes will move to the XFL. FYI I would be surprised if that happened I would assume the CFL has rules against that 

My hypothesis is that the XFL will be taking a lot of Ideas and personal from the CFL. In particular I think Ambrose will be the XFL commissioner and the XFL will have its own international draft. ( Not sure that's a big loss for the CFL fans).

Quick reply.  Good points but the arena league was different than the NFL.  Non nfl leagues like the XFL, Aaf, and so on are so similar to the NFL game that they just come off as a whole season of preseason week 4.  That goofy fan controlled football at least has a shot because it is different. 

The cfl might not be in great shape, but it's also hard to knock it for not changing so it can enter into a business that has had no real success in 40 years.  The usfl worked because it had competitive salaries to the NFL.  No league can do that now.  It realky comes down to what quirks you will have to generate interest, because being an american foitball league thst isn't the NFL has seemed impossible for my entire lifetime. 

I did find out the European football League is back, though.  

Another issue is thst the internet age has led to there being year round interest in NFL goings on. There isn't much of an off season for a similar brand to sneak into.