Is The College System Broken?

[BFritz21]

I was thinking about it and, while higher education is needed for a lot of jobs, is the college system broken and robbing people of their money?

High school is supposed to give you basic knowledge of things like history, math, and English to prepare you for the basics of life, but then college is supposed to prepare you to make a living, and how many classes do they force you to take that have no relevance to your job or even real life circumstances?

I switched majors (ended up with a minor in my first major since I only needed a few more credits for a minor in accounting) and also went to a Catholic University, so a lot of my credits did matter for my major, minor, and for the requirements to graduate, but I would have had to taken so many pointless classes to graduate if there weren't those requirements and I hadn't switched majors.

I had to take an art class in college. Why? How does that prepare me for life or my job? if I was an art major, it would be different, but I wasn't.

I had to take World Civ classes to satisfy my history credits, which may have been more in depth than high school history, but was it really necessary for my general college requirements? I took a class on Medieval Europe to satisfy the rest of my history credits, which how necessary was that? How is that improving my life going forward?

I had to take two foreign language credits and that didn't teach me much more than the two foreign language I needed to graduate high school.

I had to take Introduction To Theatre, which was basically studying plays and making a play of our own, so how necessary was that?

It is good to have a basic understanding of things like accounting and economics just because it might have some real world applications, but people spend a lot of money to take classes that are pointless in real life.

Is the college system broken? Is it a scam?

[MileHighGrowler]

I think the university system in US is completely broken, Brad. It's being used now as an outrageously expensive trade school, though almost 3/4 of grads work in a field outside of their major. I am one of them. So viewing college as a place to prep for a specific field of work is rather naïve.

The university idea was built to be schools of higher thought. Philosophy, theology, law, logic. Things to be debated, theories to be created and formed. The liberal arts education was supposed to be a bridge between these high-level thought areas and practical knowledge (hence the foreign language, art and philosophy you and I both studied in college alongside those accounting and technical classes). But I don't believe it either a) prepares anyone for the world after college (in terms of true job assistance outside of a purely technical field like the sciences) or b) provokes thought and mental growth beyond what is learned to pass exams.

Unfortunately, many have bought into the thinking that to get a job, or a raise/promotion, a college degree is needed. Once the market was overly saturated with bachelor degrees, master's degrees were the next target, because it was a more selective group of people who'd achieved "extra." I had someone tell me about 5 years ago I could never get a job in management in a business setting without a master's degree. Which is preposterous.

My personal opinion? If you're pre-disposed to being successful in life (that is, you have a strong worth ethic, drive to be successful, possess "soft skills" and an ability to learn), you can be just as successful in life with or without a college education. The tools for learning these days are at everyone's fingertips with the internet. Spending $80,000 for a state school might even put you behind in that scenario as you leave crippled with debt. Again, this is my personal opinion for the masses that are currently feeling forced to attend college.

My oldest is 12 and while I don't think colleges should disappear, I don't think by the time my kids are to head to college it will matter like it did when I attended. Already in the tech space (where I work) I've seen college requirements drop off for jobs in the past few years, including from some of the major corporations. Fewer and fewer employers are looking for classroom experience. They want the soft skills, they want transferrable skills from internships or other jobs, they want a person who gives them an edge. While there are many, many companies still hiring with requirements on education, the number is thankfully dropping.

The other side is that as more and more people attend traditional colleges, the trades are getting less interest. The feeling of "I'm a college grad, I'm above the work of a electrician" is something I've heard before. But an electrician will make just as much (and likely more) than a recent graduate at the same age, and without a $600/mo college loan payment that could be invested wisely. Depending on investment, that $80k for college loans paid out over 10 years (not even looking at interest) could turn into more than $100k savings in the same timeframe. I told two younger brothers of mine to consider skipping college. They did. They both make six figures and never had the stresses of an entry-level job after college with a painful monthly debt.

I think colleges and university are great and serve a purpose. I think the way they're utilized now is a shame and completely broken.

[grampahol]

If anything High School is far underdone and barely prepares most kids for college and leaves the rest out entirely if they didn't get great grades so it in essence prices all the mediocre kids out of any kind of reasonable college education. Sure, if mommy and daddy are filthy rich you can get a degree from Yale even if you're a total dolt, but an average kid that struggles through school is all but left out of even most state colleges.. That doesn't really even touch on the fact most kids are just not mature enough for much of life even after graduation and even in college. Don't believe that just look at the outrageous spring break events that have become more of an industry than a break from anything..
High school really ought to prepare anyone to make a living, end/stop But they simply don't and all the kids not thought of as college material? They become disposable humans nobody cares about in most cases. I attended a 2 year college I never graduated from and don't know that anything I ever learned there prepared me for a damned thing in life although I did get laid a lot, but try using that on your resume.. Hell, most everything I did study in college no longer even exist in the real world as far as occupations so the way I make my living now is what I've taught to myself long after any kind of schooling. Ya think college teaches anything about table saws other than MAYBE the engineering aspects of it? At most it'll teach math basics and maybe some design fundamentals, but certainly doesn't teach a person how to keep from cutting fingers off.. 
I'd like schools to also teach people basics of mechanics, repair of things...you know, real world day to day things we all need in our lives highly educated or not. I do a lot of home improvement. I know many, many people with advanced degrees who don't have a clue how to actually fix a damned thing in the homes they invest hundreds of thousands into.. That's a hell of a disconnect there and the reason just very minor home repairs cost so much from mostly uneducated guys like myself.. 

[*bfine32*]

I suppose it comes down to do you want a trade or an education. A trade school can teach you a singular trade and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. As the OP stated many college grads find employment outside of their major. I'm sure the ancillary classes they received helped.

[grampahol]

I earned far more money from what I learned in trade school even though few of the shops I worked in actually valued what I did learn there. I made value from what I learned in the trade school added to the things I learned in the shops. I still use a lot of that knowledge to this day, but college? I was an art student back then so I did get to draw lots of real, live titties..   I'll never forget the first time some drop dead gorgeous hottie came in the class and took off every stitch of clothing. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven at the time.  It turns out that not many companies will pay a youngin to draw naked broads all day.. Whodda thunk it, eh?  If you're thinking about some waste of time elective take art drawing 101.. There's usually nudity involved and usually girls. Drawing some guy's pecker's no fun though.. 

[BFritz21]

Great posts and I'll respond later but right now my college is playing in the NAIA women's national title game in basketball so I gotta roll down to Wings and Rings to watch.......

Typed this last night and forgot to hit send............. sorry, I'm brain damaged lol

[Belsnickel]

The problem is this point of view:

(03-23-2021, 04:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: High school is supposed to give you basic knowledge of things like history, math, and English to prepare you for the basics of life, but then college is supposed to prepare you to make a living, and how many classes do they force you to take that have no relevance to your job or even real life circumstances?

That's not what higher education is about. And this isn't just picking on you, Brad, this attitude is prevalent all throughout our society. I have long blamed Bill Clinton and the push during his administration's years for pushing more and more people to go to college. Higher education is about a liberal arts grounding. It is about understanding the world we live in and understanding humanity. You specialize in something but you learn how to connect it to other things. The problem is that the push for everyone to go to college has changed the way we operate our universities. They have become glorified trade schools. Instead of treating universities as places of research and scholarship we are treating them as nothing more than the next step after high school where students get out a bit of partying, try to learn something, and find themselves insulated from the real world for a few more years before striking out on their own.

I've long been an advocate of a more European, or specifically German, education system. There, if you aren't studying for a degree in a field that requires that liberal arts model, then you don't have to do that. We're trying to fit square pegs into round holes by making students in business, information technology, or nursing take humanities classes that they often resent. There is a value in the liberal arts model, I believe strongly in it, but I didn't need it for my accounting degree. My BS in Public Policy degree? Absolutely, but not my BBA.