I’m excited for next season...

[Murdock2420]

(04-21-2021, 03:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Who from the "Very Winnable" list is just outright better than a healthy Bengals team? I think the Bengals can win now and, as a very young team, grow and get much much better as the season goes.

TOUGH

Ravens x2
Cheifs
Browns x2
Packers


VERY WINABLE

Steelers x2
Vikings
Chargers
49ers
Jags
Bears
Jets
Raiders
Broncos
Lions

I'd take the Vikings and their running game any day.
The Chargers are better.
Bears D will cause us fits.
Steelers have always been an issue.
Jags with Lawrence will be a challenge unless we play them early.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-20-2021, 05:39 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I didn't mean you specifically, just happened to be the last person that was talking about the layoff impacting Sewell while also seeming to think the layoff wouldn't impact Chase the exact same way.

It's like the people that are all "don't draft Sewell he didn't face good competition" but then those same people are screaming, "trade up to get Vera Tucker" who played in the same conference against the same level of competition.

It's just so entertaining, yet also maddening to see people use lame excuses to discount one guy because they prefer the other, then literally negate their own argument in another post.

Hell, I remember getting yelled at by all types of fans on here when I was among the small group that said, you don't lose out, it wouldn't be in our best interest to lose out.... and I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and blah, blah, blah, got to get Sewell..

Well now the same group that was wanting to lose out for Sewell... more then half of them don't want Sewell and want Chase. It is beyond craziness around here.

Well as you know I would be more than fine with either pick, especially Pitts who I like the best. I understand all your points.

Would rather trade back and take Vera Tucker than trade up into the first too BTW. More picks is better than less even if I like 
Vera Tucker a lot and not quite as much as Sewell. Both did play in the same conference as you said. I just don't understand being 
completely close minded against taking Pitts or Chase at 5. This part is crazy to me in a very deep OL class.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-21-2021, 03:19 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't think they are so bad at all. I think they are a small handful of players and a coach growing into the position away from being dominant.

Over the last 2 seasons, the Bengals have held the lead in of 24 out of 32 games played. They aren't getting just rolled on. They need playmakers and tweaks. 1 or two plays a game last season and at the half way mark they are 7-1 or 6-2. The plays were there to be made and the players just didn't make them. Chargers game, Browns game, Colts game, Redskins game, Eagles game. and on and on. And that was during the hardest part of the Bengals schedule.

I'm actually very optimistic about this season and moving forward. 1/4th of the offseason is done (opening of FA period) and I like what they are doing. Draft, back half of FA period, & camps. They only need to get better in 2 or 3 key spots and that's it. 1 or 2 WR, 1 or 2 OL, 1 DL.... and I would LOVE a big time kicker.

Love this post, gives me great optimism and I need it at this point. We are also a very young team that could improve big time.

And we will get much younger with the Draft and getting rid of our over the hill players finally.

[PDub80]

(04-21-2021, 08:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I'd take the Vikings and their running game any day.
The Chargers are better.
Bears D will cause us fits.
Steelers have always been an issue.
Jags with Lawrence will be a challenge unless we play them early.

- The Bengals, IMO, got much better against the run this offseason. Much much better.

- I felt like the Bengals had that Chargers game dead to rights last year. And I think the two teams are more evenly matched than it may seem... when healthy.

- Bears D is always tough, but they hate to score points. I'm not sure they'll be killing it. Bengals eventually seemed to figure out how to light up good defenses. Colts, Titans, Browns, WFT (should have had 20 by half time).

- Steelers have been conquered and are old. Finley beat them on MNF..... This group is different now. I think the big bad wolf had some teeth pulled out as far as they're concerned.

- Jags will be interesting. None of these games should be easy.... but winnable is definitely not out of the vocabulary here.

[TJ528]

(04-22-2021, 12:37 AM)PDub80 Wrote: - The Bengals, IMO, got much better against the run this offseason. Much much better.

- I felt like the Bengals had that Chargers game dead to rights last year. And I think the two teams are more evenly matched than it may seem... when healthy.

- Bears D is always tough, but they hate to score points. I'm not sure they'll be killing it. Bengals eventually seemed to figure out how to light up good defenses. Colts, Titans, Browns, WFT (should have had 20 by half time).

- Steelers have been conquered and are old. Finley beat them on MNF..... This group is different now. I think the big bad wolf had some teeth pulled out as far as they're concerned.

- Jags will be interesting. None of these games should be easy.... but winnable is definitely not out of the vocabulary here.

PDub always enjoy your post and typically agree with you.  

However, I look at that schedule and there's a lot of question marks. 

I dont believe our Defense is that much better until Lou proves he can coach it better.  You can have better personnel but that doesn't automatically mean he can coach the defense up.  His defenses have ranked 27th and 24th in his first 2 seasons do you assume with a few additions there automatically going to jump into the upper teens (10-15) rankings?  I think tops this defense ranks at 20 this season and I have so much faith in Lou that I think they're more likely to remain closer to 25-30 in defense.  

I think the Bengals offense will be much better this year.  Assuming there are no injuries on the line.  So I do agree that we'll score points.  However, it goes back to defense, if we can't keep the other team off the field then it doesn't matter how much JoeyB is on the field.  

Steelers may be old but they've always been a pain in our ass.  No matter if their good or shitty.   Just when you think Ben is old and decrepit he turns around and will have a Pro Bowl year and we wonder HTF did he do that?   So I'd never count out the Steelers.  

When looking at our division I do think think the Bengals are the worst team in the division until they prove otherwise.  The Steelers, Ravens, and Browns are all playoff teams from last year.  We were good enough to get the #5 spot in the draft.  Results talk.  

I think the Jags are going to turn it around first season with Urban.  I truly think UM is one of the few college coaches that know how to run a football team like a corporation.  He'll have that team fighting for a playoff spot if not in the playoffs in his first year.  

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2021, 12:37 AM)PDub80 Wrote: - Bears D is always tough, but they hate to score points. I'm not sure they'll be killing it. 

But they have solved their QB problem.

[TJ528]

(04-21-2021, 11:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well as you know I would be more than fine with either pick, especially Pitts who I like the best. I understand all your points.

Would rather trade back and take Vera Tucker than trade up into the first too BTW. More picks is better than less even if I like 
Vera Tucker a lot and not quite as much as Sewell. Both did play in the same conference as you said. I just don't understand being 
completely close minded against taking Pitts or Chase at 5. This part is crazy to me in a very deep OL class.

Hey Nate hope things are good!

So this is where I question a very deep OL class.  

Were these players good in college?  yes they were very good in college.  

So was Billy Price, so was Michael Jordan, and you can go down the list of misses on the offensive line. 

Typically, if you draft an OL in the first round your going to hit.  After that its a crap shoot.  

So the experts can say oh this a deep draft for OL.  They said the QB drafts are great in the past and you could pick one up in the first 2 rounds and win.  

I mean you can look at the deep QB draft of 2019 and you had Kyler Murray who was the #1 pick who's going ot be good.  Daniel Jones (mehh), Dwayne Haskins (cut once already), Drew Lock (still floundering), Will Grier (is he even in the league), Ryan Finley (he's so good we traded him), Jarrett Stidham (back up in NE).  

So again all the experts can say how deep a draft is but until a player shows his potential on the field in the NFL that's all it's called is potential.  

I understand we'll probably draft 3 or 4 OL in this draft and I'm fine with that, but you can't rely on rookies to block for your star player, who's coming off a major knee injury.  

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(04-22-2021, 09:17 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Hey Nate hope things are good!

So this is where I question a very deep OL class.  

Were these players good in college?  yes they were very good in college.  

So was Billy Price, so was Michael Jordan, and you can go down the list of misses on the offensive line. 

Typically, if you draft an OL in the first round your going to hit.  After that its a crap shoot.  

So the experts can say oh this a deep draft for OL.  They said the QB drafts are great in the past and you could pick one up in the first 2 rounds and win.  

I mean you can look at the deep QB draft of 2019 and you had Kyler Murray who was the #1 pick who's going ot be good.  Daniel Jones (mehh), Dwayne Haskins (cut once already), Drew Lock (still floundering), Will Grier (is he even in the league), Ryan Finley (he's so good we traded him), Jarrett Stidham (back up in NE).  

So again all the experts can say how deep a draft is but until a player shows his potential on the field in the NFL that's all it's called is potential.  

I understand we'll probably draft 3 or 4 OL in this draft and I'm fine with that, but you can't rely on rookies to block for your star player, who's coming off a major knee injury.  

I think you need to distinguish between QB and other positions. 

With QB teams want a top 5 player in his position and it's an all or nothing position.

But given the choice between the 30th best QB and the 30th best G teams are going to choose the G as a top 30 G is someone you can win with; a top 30 QB isn't.

A deep QB draft therefore means little when anything outside the top guys have limited use. On the O-line though a deep draft means multiple players in the mid-rounds you can win with. A deep draft means that players who would have been in the first round in other drafts would fall into the second, so the second round is then no longer a crap shoot at that position (I'd also suggest that the second round isn't a crap shoot for interior linemen - eg Whit, Steinbach, Bujnoch)

[PDub80]

(04-22-2021, 09:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But they have solved their QB problem.

[TJ528]

(04-22-2021, 10:46 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I think you need to distinguish between QB and other positions. 

With QB teams want a top 5 player in his position and it's an all or nothing position.

But given the choice between the 30th best QB and the 30th best G teams are going to choose the G as a top 30 G is someone you can win with; a top 30 QB isn't.

A deep QB draft therefore means little when anything outside the top guys have limited use. On the O-line though a deep draft means multiple players in the mid-rounds you can win with. A deep draft means that players who would have been in the first round in other drafts would fall into the second, so the second round is then no longer a crap shoot at that position (I'd also suggest that the second round isn't a crap shoot for interior linemen - eg Whit, Steinbach, Bujnoch)

Hous you aren't wrong.  However, since 2015 the ability of this team to develop and draft OL is poor to say the least. 

The only one so far showing any potential of 9 OL drafted since 2015 is Jonah, but his problem is staying healthy.  I don't think he'll ever be elite like Whit or Big Willy but he'll be steady as long as he can remain healthy. 

My confidence in this front office to get this draft right is minimal right now.  

As the old adage says, I see better than I hear.  I was hoping we'd address the OL in free agency but this team will never spend big money on a free agent especially an OL. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(04-22-2021, 11:01 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Hous you aren't wrong.  However, since 2015 the ability of this team to develop and draft OL is poor to say the least. 

The only one so far showing any potential of 9 OL drafted since 2015 is Jonah, but his problem is staying healthy.  I don't think he'll ever be elite like Whit or Big Willy but he'll be steady as long as he can remain healthy. 

My confidence in this front office to get this draft right is minimal right now.  

As the old adage says, I see better than I hear.  I was hoping we'd address the OL in free agency but this team will never spend big money on a free agent especially an OL. 

Personally I think Tobin should be in the hot seat as this team's record of drafting and developing anyone 2014-2019 was poor but 2020 looks like being our best draft since 2012. Burrow may have been a no-brainer but Tee has been a great selection and Logan Wilson looks on track so it's possible they may have turned the corner.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-22-2021, 09:17 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Hey Nate hope things are good!

So this is where I question a very deep OL class.  

Were these players good in college?  yes they were very good in college.  

So was Billy Price, so was Michael Jordan, and you can go down the list of misses on the offensive line. 

Typically, if you draft an OL in the first round your going to hit.  After that its a crap shoot.  

So the experts can say oh this a deep draft for OL.  They said the QB drafts are great in the past and you could pick one up in the first 2 rounds and win.  

I mean you can look at the deep QB draft of 2019 and you had Kyler Murray who was the #1 pick who's going ot be good.  Daniel Jones (mehh), Dwayne Haskins (cut once already), Drew Lock (still floundering), Will Grier (is he even in the league), Ryan Finley (he's so good we traded him), Jarrett Stidham (back up in NE).  

So again all the experts can say how deep a draft is but until a player shows his potential on the field in the NFL that's all it's called is potential.  

I understand we'll probably draft 3 or 4 OL in this draft and I'm fine with that, but you can't rely on rookies to block for your star player, who's coming off a major knee injury.  

Everything's great, thanks, hope everything is great with you as well TJ528...

As the other TJHoush said it is quite a bit different when talking about QB's and the depth of their drafts to OL.

Been researching these OL for months now and we can get some very talented players for the OL as late as the 5th.

Spencer Brown won't be going before the 3rd and I really like the guy and he could go as late as the 5th.

You are right, the Draft is a crap shoot. Who knows if Spencer Brown ends up being better than Penei Sewell? 

Yah never know. But it is a very deep class for OL.

[TJ528]

(04-22-2021, 01:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Everything's great, thanks, hope everything is great with you as well TJ528...

As the other TJHoush said it is quite a bit different when talking about QB's and the depth of their drafts to OL.

Been researching these OL for months now and we can get some very talented players for the OL as late as the 5th.

Spencer Brown won't be going before the 3rd and I really like the guy and he could go as late as the 5th.

You are right, the Draft is a crap shoot. Who knows if Spencer Brown ends up being better than Penei Sewell? 

Yah never know. But it is a very deep class for OL.

I agree there's talent all through the draft but you're not going to draft someone in the 5th round that's going to start this season on the OL unless you want another Michael Jordan scenario.  Sorry.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-22-2021, 01:13 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I agree there's talent all through the draft but you're not going to draft someone in the 5th round that's going to start this season on the OL unless you want another Michael Jordan scenario.  Sorry.

Agree, a player like Spencer Brown would be learning behind Reiff for a year or two.

Need to get at least 2 interior players ready to start and they should be versatile as well who can play OT and in an outside zone.

Not all OL drafted that late are MJ either, he just cannot get low. I really like Adeniji much better and he was drafted later.

Just saying if they go Chase and draft OL from the 2nd to the 5th we could find at least 2 starters which is what we need at the 
moment. Sewell might not even start at OT if we Drafted him, he might start at one of the Guard spots for all we know.