Call Detriot and Carolina, end the debate

[phil413]

The debate over #5 and stagnation of FA has us all over this forum with the same issue. You may be passionate about your pick, but you need to consider what you're passing up to make the pick at 5. Do you love Sewell or Chase so much that you'd reject pick 72 or more?

It does take two to trade, but it's likely on the table so let's play along. We know the Lions and Panthers are mindful of QB and if you entertain Pitts as co-BPA with Chase and Sewell then you get more out of Carolina (3rd, 4th and 4th next year?) You get 72 from Detroit and if their guy is there maybe a little more. Bottom line is you benefit from a bidding war and what some may see as an easy way out but it's a win/win.

Are you coming around to Chase (or Pitts) and an OL in the 2nd? You also worry about a stud defender being there in the 2nd and taking need. Now you can take the defender and if there is a run on OL deal back into the late 2nd for one. That or you can take a tackle AND an interior OL and not neglect other needs.

If you end up with Sewell, you can double down and land a WR and TE at some point. Let's not discount that adding a future pick helps justify dealing a 2022 4th or 5th for a starting OL if the draft doesn't work out. Teams that took OL as BPA could justify trading such player. The benefits and opportunity is there.

[Nicomo Cosca]

DET has the draft capital from the Stafford/Goff trade, but why would they be interested in moving up for a QB? Goff is under contract for four more years, and they don’t have an out for another two.

[Burma]

(04-02-2021, 11:38 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DET has the draft capital from the Stafford/Goff trade, but why would they be interested in moving up for a QB? Goff is under contract for four more years, and they don’t have an out for another two.

I would not be surprised if DET moves up, but for Pitts or Chase.  They lost Golladay and have nothing in terms of weapons for Goff.  Their best offensive weapon is TJ Hockenson at TE and he was graded low to mid 70s by PFF. They are high enough in draft order that a move up to 4 or 5 would not be too costly.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-02-2021, 12:01 PM)Burma Wrote: I would not be surprised if DET moves up, but for Pitts or Chase.  They lost Golladay and have nothing in terms of weapons for Goff.  Their best offensive weapon is TJ Hockenson at TE and he was graded low to mid 70s by PFF. They are high enough in draft order that a move up to 4 or 5 would not be too costly.

I don’t see it. They used a top 10 pick on Hockenson two years ago, and he just made the Pro Bowl. And if they want a WR at least one of the Alabama guys will probably be there for them.

[phil413]

(04-02-2021, 11:38 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DET has the draft capital from the Stafford/Goff trade, but why would they be interested in moving up for a QB? Goff is under contract for four more years, and they don’t have an out for another two.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/withthefirstpick.com/2021/03/10/lions-goff-2021-qb-market/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30990011/detroit-lions-gm-brad-holmes-intrigued-different-flavors-qbs-2021-nfl-draft%3fplatform=amp

Part of the value of the draft capital is taking on an expensive QB that took a step back and in the 2nd article the GM is all about this year's class.  Goff may be more than a bridge, but if they love a guy like Fields and he is there you take him.  It's also possible that they love a guy like Chase and have the capital to come get him at 5 before he falls to the Fins.  

If you don't think Detoit will want a QB or trade to 5 for their guy, consider Carolina at 8.  I put Pitts with the other 2 and wonder if others do.  

[Burma]

(04-02-2021, 12:08 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t see it. They used a top 10 pick on Hockenson two years ago, and he just made the Pro Bowl. And if they want a WR at least one of the Alabama guys will probably be there for them.

I agree that it's not likely, I think they would have to fall in love with Chase and believe the Bengals snatch him up. 

[coachmcneil71]

(04-02-2021, 12:01 PM)Burma Wrote: I would not be surprised if DET moves up, but for Pitts or Chase.  They lost Golladay and have nothing in terms of weapons for Goff.  Their best offensive weapon is TJ Hockenson at TE and he was graded low to mid 70s by PFF. They are high enough in draft order that a move up to 4 or 5 would not be too costly.

(04-02-2021, 12:08 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t see it. They used a top 10 pick on Hockenson two years ago, and he just made the Pro Bowl. And if they want a WR at least one of the Alabama guys will probably be there for them.

I don't think they will move up. Waddle is going to fall right into their lap.

[phil413]

For anyone that rules out Detoit, ok cool are we rejecting a Carolina trade if we know we can still get one of Chase, Sewell or Pitts?

pick 7 or 8 : Chase/Sewell/Pitts
then...

2. T Jalen Mayfield/Alex Leatherwood
3. BPA leaning toward DE/DT/LB
3. BPA but now you can double down on WR/TE/OL

2. WR Terrence Marshall JR (chemistry with Burrow)/Amon-Ra St. Brown
3. BPA leaning toward DE/DT/LB
3. BPA but now you can double down on WR/TE/OL

That or if a player like Jaelan Phillips, Joseph Ossai, Christian Barmore or Zaven Collins is high on their board, they can still land the WR/OL need in the 3rd and even double down in the same round.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Yeah, I think Det is thinking WR (just lost Golladay). I doubt they go QB. QB teams below us are Carolina, Denver, and NE.

For me, I'd have 3 guiding principles about trading down:

1) I still want to walk away with one of Sewell, Pitts, or Chase.

This means if I trade way down, say with NE at #15, the haul has to be big enough to enable me to do what Miami did, trade back up into the top 7/8 to get one of our top 3.

Detroit at 7 being the likely only trade up target. If QBs go 1-3 and we trade out at #5 to a QB team & then back up to #7, at least one of the 3 will be there. Falcons at 4 and Dolphins at 6 are the non-QBs.

If QBs go 1-4, and we trade out at #5, I'd be willing to go down to #8 with Carolina. This means someone really likes Mac Jones.

2) I won't make either deal until I am sure I can still land Chase/Pitts/ Sewell. For the up/down deal until I am sure QBs are going 1-3. Which means after the Jets pick or trade Darnold. For the down to 8 deal, it would be after the Falcons pick.

3) I want to net significant draft capital out of it. Future 1st ir 2nd plus current 2nd or 3rd is likely the haul I need.

I want enough to move back into the late first (teens or 20s) this year and still have an extra round 1-3 pick. Losing the chance for my pick of the top 3 has to be compensated. And I do not want to wait helplessly if a run on WR/OL leaves the position drained at 38. I want to have ammunition to move up and get a guy I really like late 1st. If I take Chase/Pitts first, then I want ammo to go get Vera-Tucker or a slipping Darrishaw. If we pick Sewell first, then Bateman. Or if a defensive stud seems to be slipping (Parsons).
-----------------

Obviously, I'd need more from Denver or NE because I'd need to trade up with Detroit. With Carolina, I might be staying put, so I could take less.

[TJ528]

(04-02-2021, 12:29 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Yeah, I think Det is thinking WR (just lost Golladay). I doubt they go QB. QB teams below us are Carolina, Denver, and NE.

For me, I'd have 3 guiding principles about trading down:

1) I still want to walk away with one of Sewell, Pitts, or Chase.

This means if I trade way down, say with NE at #15, the haul has to be big enough to enable me to do what Miami did, trade back up into the top 7/8 to get one of our top 3.

Detroit at 7 being the likely only trade up target. If QBs go 1-3 and we trade out at #5 to a QB team & then back up to #7, at least one of the 3 will be there. Falcons at 4 and Dolphins at 6 are the non-QBs.

If QBs go 1-4, and we trade out at #5, I'd be willing to go down to #8 with Carolina. This means someone really likes Mac Jones.

2) I won't make either deal until I am sure I can still land Chase/Pitts/ Sewell. For the up/down deal until I am sure QBs are going 1-3. Which means after the Jets pick or trade Darnold. For the down to 8 deal, it would be after the Falcons pick.

3) I want to net significant draft capital out of it. Future 1st ir 2nd plus current 2nd or 3rd is likely the haul I need.

I want enough to move back into the late first (teens or 20s) this year and still have an extra round 1-3 pick. Losing the chance for my pick of the top 3 has to be compensated. And I do not want to wait helplessly if a run on WR/OL leaves the position drained at 38. I want to have ammunition to move up and get a guy I really like late 1st. If I take Chase/Pitts first, then I want ammo to go get Vera-Tucker or a slipping Darrishaw. If we pick Sewell first, then Bateman. Or if a defensive stud seems to be slipping (Parsons).
-----------------

Obviously, I'd need more from Denver or NE because I'd need to trade up with Detroit. With Carolina, I might be staying put, so I could take less.

My only problem with this trade scenario is do we trust that Duke and this Front Office knows how to conduct trades such as these?  

I mean how often is it we see the Bengals makes trades on draft day?  if they draft they'll move back a couple spots, but they'll never be creative enough to pull what Miami did because the Brown family won't allow it. 

[coachmcneil71]

(04-02-2021, 12:29 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Yeah, I think Det is thinking WR (just lost Golladay). I doubt they go QB. QB teams below us are Carolina, Denver, and NE.

For me, I'd have 3 guiding principles about trading down:

1) I still want to walk away with one of Sewell, Pitts, or Chase.

This means if I trade way down, say with NE at #15, the haul has to be big enough to enable me to do what Miami did, trade back up into the top 7/8 to get one of our top 3.

Detroit at 7 being the likely only trade up target. If QBs go 1-3 and we trade out at #5 to a QB team & then back up to #7, at least one of the 3 will be there. Falcons at 4 and Dolphins at 6 are the non-QBs.

If QBs go 1-4, and we trade out at #5, I'd be willing to go down to #8 with Carolina. This means someone really likes Mac Jones.

2) I won't make either deal until I am sure I can still land Chase/Pitts/ Sewell. For the up/down deal until I am sure QBs are going 1-3. Which means after the Jets pick or trade Darnold. For the down to 8 deal, it would be after the Falcons pick.

3) I want to net significant draft capital out of it. Future 1st ir 2nd plus current 2nd or 3rd is likely the haul I need.

I want enough to move back into the late first (teens or 20s) this year and still have an extra round 1-3 pick. Losing the chance for my pick of the top 3 has to be compensated. And I do not want to wait helplessly if a run on WR/OL leaves the position drained at 38. I want to have ammunition to move up and get a guy I really like late 1st. If I take Chase/Pitts first, then I want ammo to go get Vera-Tucker or a slipping Darrishaw. If we pick Sewell first, then Bateman. Or if a defensive stud seems to be slipping (Parsons).
-----------------

Obviously, I'd need more from Denver or NE because I'd need to trade up with Detroit. With Carolina, I might be staying put, so I could take less.

I read an article last week describing what a possible trade with NE might look like. We received a huge haul of piçks. Two 1s, two 2s, and two 3s, if I remember correctly. It was something close to that.

[DYT_Bengal]

If we draft Waddle, this draft was a failure.

[SErebel11]

The other option is to trade with Carolina, NE or whomever and get a good player in return.

If a team is dead set on getting a QB and they have one they want, they will pay and figure it out later.

Carolina trades #8 and OT Taylor Moton to Cincinnati at #5 then sign Moton to a long term deal.
Moton + Waddle potentially.

New England trades #15, #46 and G Shaq Mason ( already signed through the next 3 seasons) to Cincinnati for #5.

[*pally*]

I think at this point no one will make a move until draft day. See, how the first 4 picks actually play out

[*ochocincos*]

(04-02-2021, 11:38 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DET has the draft capital from the Stafford/Goff trade, but why would they be interested in moving up for a QB? Goff is under contract for four more years, and they don’t have an out for another two.

DET needs a pass catcher, and there's a (big) risk that both Pitts and Chase are gone by the time they pick. If they have them at a tier above the likes of Smith and Waddle, they may be willing to trade up to ensure they get one of Pitts or Chase.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2021, 12:34 PM)TJ528 Wrote:   if they draft they'll move back a couple spots, but they'll never be creative enough to pull what Miami did because the Brown family won't allow it. 

The Brown family traded up to get the #1 pick when we drafted Kijana Carter.

[TJ528]

(04-02-2021, 02:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Brown family traded up to get the #1 pick when we drafted Kijana Carter.

And how many years ago was that? Think they might be a bit jaded considering what Carter amounted to after blowing out his knee in Detroit (most Bengal thing ever).

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Murdock2420]

(04-02-2021, 01:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: DET needs a pass catcher, and there's a (big) risk that both Pitts and Chase are gone by the time they pick. If they have them at a tier above the likes of Smith and Waddle, they may be willing to trade up to ensure they get one of Pitts or Chase.

I could see Det wanting to jump Miami to get Chase. Not sure they'd be in on Pitts with Hockenson on the roster.

[coachmcneil71]

(04-02-2021, 01:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: DET needs a pass catcher, and there's a (big) risk that both Pitts and Chase are gone by the time they pick. If they have them at a tier above the likes of Smith and Waddle, they may be willing to trade up to ensure they get one of Pitts or Chase.

I don't see it. The drop off in talent isn't that great. I think we're going to draft Chase. Ts, there are several REALLY GOOD WRs in this draft.

Many here seem to completely ignore that fact. Not saying you are. Just saying it's not Pitts and Chase; then all of the rest suck.
Talent all over the board in this draft.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-02-2021, 02:39 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I could see Det wanting to jump Miami to get Chase. Not sure they'd be in on Pitts with Hockenson on the roster.

Depends if they see Pitts like Megatron or not, or if they wanted to run two-TE sets.