OL hits and sacks - Joe Goodberry

[PDub80]

(04-13-2021, 07:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Saw somewhere that said PFF has 9 sacks attributed to Joe Burrow.

So ~28% of the sacks Burrow took were his own fault according to them. The OL was terrible and I don't like Taylor's offense, but that's way too many unnecessary sacks taken by a QB. 

Hopefully it was just him being a rookie and he cleans it up rather than following the Andrew Luck path.

Joey B was really candid in some of these off-season interviews he's done where he spoke on taking some unnecessary hits and sacks and that he's reviewing film to work on those situations.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-13-2021, 06:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And when looking at his 2020 injury, I wouldn't really say it's because he's "injury prone."

Not his 2020 injury. His 2020 injuries. He had two separate ones.

He left after only 40% of Week 7 and then missed Week 8 and Week 10 (Week 9 was a bye week) with a neck injury.
Then he left 75% through Week 12 with the knee injury.

That's 3 separate injuries where each have caused multiple games missed in 2 years (including finishing both season on the IR). If he's not gotten the injury prone label yet, then it is in the process of being printed up right now.

He's only made it through 8 of 32 games.

[PDub80]

(04-13-2021, 10:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m with you on taking Chase, but if we don’t go OL in the 2nd we riot.

That Cleveland G looks outstanding as well for a 2nd rounder. And the Bengals love their Bulldogs. I would do backflips for a Chase, Cleveland, Humphry 1st 3 rounds. 

I think a stud center is still in need with Hopkins being hurt. Hell, the C from Alabama was doing cartwheels to photobomb proday interviews. If he's there in the 4th or 5th... grab that dude... Humphry seems like he will be gone by the 3rd.

[Murdock2420]

(04-13-2021, 10:57 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ Brilliance and makes me even more on team Chase. Not even a single doubt in my mind at this point.

I wouldn't even be made w a RB, TE, Edge, or whatever in the 2nd and then someone like Creed Humphry in the 3rd, or the OT, Hudson from UC. Lots of options. Some of these top O line guys will fall out of round 2 into the 3rd or even 4th. It is a DEEP O line class.

Deep with potential.

I really like Hudson but from watching all of UC's games this season he isn't going to be ready to step in and play at the NFL level without some work and might be better at RT.

Ben Cleveland from Georgia in three is a interesting name and might be good but will he be BPA at 69? Think he's shown just inside the top 100 usually, I know PFF has him at 95th overall. 

Creed is a good pick in 3, but most mocks have him going before our 3rd and you can't reach at 38 for him. The one knock on him is that he struggles with big bodied bull rushers...which... isn't ideal with this division.


The more I read and see... the more I see them waiting till round 3 maybe even 4 before they address the line which is absolutely stupid...which is exactly why it will happen. 

But hey, at least we'll have a new toy....

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-13-2021, 11:07 PM)PDub80 Wrote: That Cleveland G looks outstanding as well for a 2nd rounder. And the Bengals love their Bulldogs. I would do backflips for a Chase, Cleveland, Humphry 1st 3 rounds. 

I think a stud center is still in need with Hopkins being hurt. Hell, the C from Alabama was doing cartwheels to photobomb proday interviews. If he's there in the 4th or 5th... grab that dude... Humphry seems like he will be gone by the 3rd.

I’d definitely be down for Ben Cleveland. Seen some say he wouldn’t fit a wide zone scheme, but he looks like a big old people mover to me.

[Joelist]

This would be a good draft to double dip on the OL. Especially if they go Chase in Rd 1 then go OL in both 2 and 3.

[Murdock2420]

(04-13-2021, 11:25 PM)Joelist Wrote: This would be a good draft to double dip on the OL. Especially if they go Chase in Rd 1 then go OL in both 2 and 3.

I can't see them doing that.

If the OL is bad enough in their eyes that they need to go back to back on it, they can't pass on Sewell. Makes no sense, you don't pass on the best player at a position of need that ranks top 5 on the board at 5 if you are that worried about the group to go there two times in a row.

Chase
Edge/DI
OL

That'll be the move. Only way they'd go OL twice in the first 3 rounds is if they went Sewell, Marshall/Brown/Toney, then OL again.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-13-2021, 10:57 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ Brilliance and makes me even more on team Chase. Not even a single doubt in my mind at this point.

I wouldn't even be made w a RB, TE, Edge, or whatever in the 2nd and then someone like Creed Humphry in the 3rd, or the OT, Hudson from UC. Lots of options. Some of these top O line guys will fall out of round 2 into the 3rd or even 4th. It is a DEEP O line class.

I must have missed the clip with Chase playing OL?

X started and played in all 16 games once in his career.
Jonah hasn't proven he can stay healthy.
Reiff is a one year rental.
Spain was cut and picked up off the street and is back on a 1 year deal.
Our C is coming off a major knee injury



Unless you are ready to move on from Burrow after this year there is no excuse to not invest our resources to build a studly OL that can protect our best chance of winning this year and in the foreseeable future. Right now we have one of those tiny band-aids covering a bleeding wound that needs at least 3 stitches.

The whole world knows we need OL. Everyone brags this is a good OL class. So we want to wait and pick from the left over scraps? No thanks. Give me some top guys from the strong class.

[Joelist]

(04-13-2021, 11:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I can't see them doing that.

If the OL is bad enough in their eyes that they need to go back to back on it, they can't pass on Sewell. Makes no sense, you don't pass on the best player at a position of need that ranks top 5 on the board at 5 if you are that worried about the group to go there two times in a row.

Chase
Edge/DI
OL

That'll be the move. Only way they'd go OL twice in the first 3 rounds is if they went Sewell, Marshall/Brown/Toney, then OL again.

The problem is the EDGE class this year is substandard. 

With the signing of Reiff we actually have a decent starting OL 5 of Jonah, XSF, Hopkins, Spain, Reiff. Last year even saddled with Hart once we had both Spain and XSF out there at the same time the line play improved pretty dramatically - the stats on that are in multiple other threads here.  The big issue is the cupboard behind these guys is pretty bare and needs to be restocked with actual talent and not trash like Redmond and MJ. Hence double dipping in 2 and 3 (assuming Chase) helps that issue a lot. 

[PDub80]

(04-13-2021, 11:47 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I must have missed the clip with Chase playing OL?

X started and played in all 16 games once in his career.
Jonah hasn't proven he can stay healthy.
Reiff is a one year rental.
Spain was cut and picked up off the street and is back on a 1 year deal.
Our C is coming off a major knee injury



Unless you are ready to move on from Burrow after this year there is no excuse to not invest our resources to build a studly OL that can protect our best chance of winning this year and in the foreseeable future. Right now we have one of those tiny band-aids covering a bleeding wound that needs at least 3 stitches.

The whole world knows we need OL. Everyone brags this is a good OL class. So we want to wait and pick from the left over scraps? No thanks. Give me some top guys from the strong class.

Carson had a top 5 O line and got his knee brutalized as well. No guarantees. It all depends on how the draft falls.

[PDub80]

(04-13-2021, 11:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Deep with potential.

I really like Hudson but from watching all of UC's games this season he isn't going to be ready to step in and play at the NFL level without some work and might be better at RT.

Ben Cleveland from Georgia in three is a interesting name and might be good but will he be BPA at 69? Think he's shown just inside the top 100 usually, I know PFF has him at 95th overall. 

Creed is a good pick in 3, but most mocks have him going before our 3rd and you can't reach at 38 for him. The one knock on him is that he struggles with big bodied bull rushers...which... isn't ideal with this division.


The more I read and see... the more I see them waiting till round 3 maybe even 4 before they address the line which is absolutely stupid...which is exactly why it will happen. 

But hey, at least we'll have a new toy....

Cleveland won't make it to 3, I'm afraid.

I think they go O line in the 2nd.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-14-2021, 12:02 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Carson had a top 5 O line and got his knee brutalized as well. No guarantees. It all depends on how the draft falls.

In a playoff game.

Where his top 3 weapons were a 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and 7th rounder.

[Murdock2420]

(04-13-2021, 11:56 PM)Joelist Wrote: The problem is the EDGE class this year is substandard. 

With the signing of Reiff we actually have a decent starting OL 5 of Jonah, XSF, Hopkins, Spain, Reiff. Last year even saddled with Hart once we had both Spain and XSF out there at the same time the line play improved pretty dramatically - the stats on that are in multiple other threads here.  The big issue is the cupboard behind these guys is pretty bare and needs to be restocked with actual talent and not trash like Redmond and MJ. Hence double dipping in 2 and 3 (assuming Chase) helps that issue a lot. 

It is decent... but when you are protecting your franchise, needs to be better then decent. 

My biggest concern though isn't the starting five, it's counting on the starting five to actually play the majority of the season. Jonah has missed more games then played as we go into year three. He had 3 different injuries last season, so it is almost a certainty he is going to miss time. If he continues to be like Eifert was, good when he plays but usually not playing, you have to move on from him as you approach the 5th year option to be picked up.

XSF has been injured in three straight years.

Hopkins tore his ACL week 17

So at some point these names will be on the field again.... Price, Jordan, Fred Johnson... 

After years of failure from this team, I shouldn't be surprised but yet... I am... I am absolutely amazed that they can be dumb enough to be gifted a rock for the OL... and will pass on him for a WR...

These moves are why this team is still the laughing stock of the NFL.

[Murdock2420]

(04-14-2021, 12:10 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: In a playoff game.

Where his top 3 weapons were a 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and 7th rounder.

Yup... the best WR in Bengals history (stats wise and probably just in general) was drafted in round 2.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-14-2021, 12:14 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Yup... the best WR in Bengals history (stats wise and probably just in general) was drafted in round 2.

And the best olineman on the Bengals teams that saw the most sustained stretch of success in franchise history was a 2nd rounder...

We can keep going around and around on this stuff forever.

[Shake n Blake]

I've seen people saying the following over the last week:

The o-line ain't in bad shape.
The sacks are caused by slow WRs (coverage sacks).
Frank Pollack will improve everything on his own.
Injuries have happened with good lines, so what's the point of taking a top guy.
Moving linemen around could put us in worse shape than if we just didn't add talent.

...and the Sewell guys are the ones being unreasonable?

[Murdock2420]

(04-14-2021, 12:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And the best olineman on the Bengals teams that saw the most sustained stretch of success in franchise history was a 2nd rounder...

We can keep going around and around on this stuff forever.

Munoz was not a 2nd rounder

I love Whit and all... but seriously... he isn't close to Munoz...

Muñoz became a starter in his rookie season and remained a fixture at left tackle for the Bengals for 13 seasons and is considered one of, if not the greatest offensive linemen in NFL history. Despite his history of injuries, Muñoz missed just three games during his first 12 seasons. His rigorous workout routine included working out in the weight room he had installed in his home and running three to four miles every day.[4] In addition to his talents as a blocker, Anthony Muñoz was also a capable receiver, notching seven receptions for 18 yards and scoring four touchdowns on tackle-eligible plays, including one in 1984 from rookie quarterback Boomer Esiason against the Cleveland Browns in Cleveland.

Muñoz played both Bengals' Super Bowl appearances, XVI and XXIII

[Shake n Blake]

(04-14-2021, 12:24 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Munoz was not a 2nd rounder

Yeah that was a lot of qualifiers just to make it someone not named Munoz.

[Murdock2420]

(04-14-2021, 12:27 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah that was a lot of qualifiers just to make it someone not named Munoz.

Yeah except there is no qualifier anyone can put out there to say that Munoz isn't the greatest we've ever had, this team has been in two Super Bowls, he was the anchor on the line for both. 

It's just silliness.

In the end people need to look at it like this... would you rather have a guy that might be Munoz or a guy that might be Green.

To me... that's easy.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-14-2021, 12:31 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Yeah except there is no qualifier anyone can put out there to say that Munoz isn't the greatest we've ever had, this team has been in two Super Bowls, he was the anchor on the line for both. 

It's just silliness.

In the end people need to look at it like this... would you rather have a guy that might be Munoz or a guy that might be Green.

To me... that's easy.

Who the hell is claiming Whit was better than Munoz? You’re arguing against a point no one tried to make. I said the best lineman on those teams that went to 5 straight playoffs (ie the longest stretch of success in team history) was a 2nd rounder.