D-Line

[Joelist]

Both Free Agent DL signings improve pass rush. Ogunboji is important because we totally lacked interior pass rush, Hendrickson is definitely a pass rush upgrade and even Hilton was aimed partly at giving us pass rush from the secondary.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-14-2021, 01:24 PM)GodFather Wrote: Last I heard he is still unsigned. He wants to be a starter and Cincy had no plans making him one so I think he's off the table coming here.

He isn't starting in Washington either with Young and Sweat in front of him.

(04-14-2021, 02:15 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I still think there is a good chance he signs here. He's not going to start in Washington either, and I haven't seen where anyone else is interested in him. Cincy may have played this one smart and get him cheap.

No doubt, I think Kerrigan would actually get a lot more snaps here than Washington honestly.

Hope we still sign him.

[Memphis_Bengal]

(04-14-2021, 01:50 PM)J24 Wrote: I have way more confidence in Tate and Thomas then the backup D-Line.

Dude Mike Thomas is useless. I'll bet he doesn't make the 53

[J24]

(04-14-2021, 02:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: More confidence in the depth WRs than the depth DEs yes, depth DTs no.

I have more confidence in Daniels and Tupou than I do Tate and Thomas, but I don't have confidence in Kareem and Bledsoe.

Daniels isn't good and hasn't been healthy the last three seasons. He's a good guy but I'm not confident in him as a player. Tupou is good but I'm not even sure we know he is coming back + he offers very little as a pass rusher.
Tate has had some success here and Thomas seemed to have a connection with Burrow when he played.

Regardless we need help at both positions. Would like to add at least two guys to both groups.

[J24]

(04-14-2021, 02:28 PM)Joelist Wrote: Both Free Agent DL signings improve pass rush. Ogunboji is important because we totally lacked interior pass rush, Hendrickson is definitely a pass rush upgrade and even Hilton was aimed partly at giving us pass rush from the secondary.

Hendrickson isn't a definite pass rush upgrade over Lawson. Lawson has more sacks, QB Hits, and TFLs in his career than Hendrickson. 
I'm hopeful about OG but he has a really low PFF rating the last 3 seasons + coming off a bad season.

[J24]

(04-14-2021, 02:28 PM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: Dude Mike Thomas is useless. I'll bet he doesn't make the 53

He'll make it he gives him special teams value and understands the system. I don't think he will play much on offense though.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

What the opposing QB's release time last year? I don't recall a lot of QBs standing there for 4 seconds with little to no pressure but I do recall a lot of QBs hitting guys early due to crappy CB play. I have a feeling they addressed the pass rush when they upgraded the CBs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-14-2021, 02:40 PM)J24 Wrote: Hendrickson isn't a definite pass rush upgrade over Lawson. Lawson has more sacks, QB Hits, and TFLs in his career than Hendrickson. 
I'm hopeful about OG but he has a really low PFF rating the last 3 seasons + coming off a bad season.

Eh, it is a what have you done for me lately league. Hendrickson had 13.5 sacks last season and Lawson had 5.5. Trey also 
doesn't have the extensive injury history that Carl has. Larry Ogunjobi (don't want to call him Og and jinx him) wasn't used 
in his natural position the last 3 seasons, 3-tech which he is expected to play here.

[Joelist]

Also we should have Reader and Tupou back. A DL of Hendrickson - Reader - Ogunjobi - Hubbard is far better than what we ran out there most of last season.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2021, 02:32 PM)J24 Wrote: Daniels isn't good and hasn't been healthy the last three seasons. He's a good guy but I'm not confident in him as a player. Tupou is good but I'm not even sure we know he is coming back + he offers very little as a pass rusher.
Tate has had some success here and Thomas seemed to have a connection with Burrow when he played.

Regardless we need help at both positions. Would like to add at least two guys to both groups.

Can you not say the same thing about Tate and Thomas?
Thomas has never had a good season, and Tate only had one "good" season.
The last time Tate had a "good" season, Tupou did too.
Tate hasn't played more than 12 games in a season. He's not been active for 20 games across 3 seasons. And in 28 games, he's put up a whopping 760 yards and 1 TD.

What do you mean you don't know if Tupou is coming back? He was on a one-year deal, and since he opted out last year, that contract year is still active for this year.

[fredtoast]

If ogunjobi and reader stay healthy DT will be by far the most improved position on the team.

[J24]

(04-14-2021, 02:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, it is a what have you done for me lately league. Hendrickson had 13.5 sacks last season and Lawson had 5.5. Trey also 
doesn't have the extensive injury history that Carl has. Larry Ogunjobi (don't want to call him Og and jinx him) wasn't used 
in his natural position the last 3 seasons, 3-tech which he is expected to play here.

Lawson has played in more games during his career than Hendrickson. Also Lawson was top 10 in pressures and sacks created last year.  He was a pretty damn good player for us. It was the other guys around him that sucked; he shouldn't be blamed for that.

While I agree that signing Lawson to a long term deal would be risky due to his injury history. It does not mean that we improved by signing Hendrickson over him. I would also add that Hendrickson is a risk due his injury history , is coming from a loaded Defensive line, and is a one year wonder. 

I like Hendrickson as a player and i think he can be successful in a rotation  With that being said we have to create an rotation for him to thrive in.

Larry is interesting he put up good stats in Cleveland in 2018& 19 but his PFF numbers were bad.  Also his PFF and Stats were both bad last season. Hopefully a change of scenery will help him. Still he only signed for one year so drafting future players would be smart 

[J24]

(04-14-2021, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Can you not say the same thing about Tate and Thomas?
Thomas has never had a good season, and Tate only had one "good" season.
The last time Tate had a "good" season, Tupou did too.
Tate hasn't played more than 12 games in a season. He's not been active for 20 games across 3 seasons. And in 28 games, he's put up a whopping 760 yards and 1 TD.

What do you mean you don't know if Tupou is coming back? He was on a one-year deal, and since he opted out last year, that contract year is still active for this year.

There is still a pandemic going around its no guarantee that Tupou will be back. I think he will be but I don't think anything has been officially announced.

Like I said in the previous post arguing over which is better the D-Line or 3rd Wr is silly because both suck right now. We need to improve at both positions to be blunt.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2021, 05:37 PM)J24 Wrote: There is still a pandemic going around its no guarantee that Tupou will be back. I think he will be but I don't think anything has been officially announced.

Like I said in the previous post arguing over which is better the D-Line or 3rd Wr is silly because both suck right now. We need to improve at both positions to be blunt.

I didn't really think about whether there would be the option to opt out again like last year.
If they do allow it, perhaps Tupou does that.
I would think not though given there's now a vaccine available.

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-14-2021, 12:34 PM)phil413 Wrote: You aren't alone.  Cincy's crown jewel FA is their highest paid player with an out after 1 year.  There is potential across the line but even having Reader healthy we need help.  

The scenario I find with the simulators and class depth is that a 1st rd grade DE usually drops to Cincy's 2nd.  Regardless of need at WR, the right prospect is hard to pass up. 

It's funny, I tend to get the same scenario playing out in the 2nd as it does in the 1st.  Take a BPA target that Burrow has chemistry with (Chase in 1st or Marshall in 2nd) or address the line since so much help is needed.  If a slight trade down is available, they should still end up with a solid DL or Marshall.  

It's a long wait until the draft. I'm excited about our draft position. We'll end up with a great player in round 1 for sure (round 2 as well most likely).

(04-14-2021, 01:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While going OL-DL in the first two rounds is a sound strategy, just know that the pass catching group could be lackluster this year because of it.
You'd be really banking on Higgins and Boyd to stay healthy, Auden Tate to contribute more like he did in 2019 vs 2020, and that Uzomah gets back to his form at the start of last year before injury.
I say this because any WR/TE you're going to take in Rd 3 or later is likely not going to be as big of a contributor as a rookie compared to one taken in Rd 1 or Rd 2. Most mid-round and late-round receivers usually take a season (or two) to become a significant contributor in the offense, if at all.

For some examples:
Mohamed Sanu (3rd rd 2012) - 25 targets, 16 rec, 154 yards as a rookie
Marvin Jones (5th rd 2012) - 32 targets, 18 rec, 201 yards as a rookie
Antonio Brown (6th rd 2010) - 19 targets, 16 rec, 167 yards as a rookie

There are obviously exceptions (e.g. Terry McLaurin 2019, Stefon Diggs 2015), but it isn't common.

Yeah, I'd be happy if we drafted Chase in the 1st. But keep in mind, it puts more pressure to get oline and dline help the rest of the way. We have 2 really good receivers, and the depth behind them is good in terms of the amount of experience out there. Yes, if Boyd or Higgins got hurt, we would be in a bit of trouble. But a good QB and offensive line can make up for that. My main concern is the trenches. It's where we've struggled the most the past several years. It would be fun to have another weapon though.

A lot of people point to our wide receivers in regards to the lack of success with the deep ball. I think the offensive line is more to blame. Can't throw the ball deep if we only have a couple seconds to throw it to avoid a sack. Same goes for the defensive side. It's easy for opposing QB's to pick us apart if they have all day to throw. These two areas are extremely important in regards to winning football (blocking and pass rush/penetration).

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2021, 06:23 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: It's a long wait until the draft. I'm excited about our draft position. We'll end up with a great player in round 1 for sure (round 2 as well most likely).

Yeah, I'd be happy if we drafted Chase in the 1st. But keep in mind, it puts more pressure to get oline and dline help the rest of the way. We have 2 really good receivers, and the depth behind them is good in terms of the amount of experience out there. Yes, if Boyd or Higgins got hurt, we would be in a bit of trouble. But a good QB and offensive line can make up for that. My main concern is the trenches. It's where we've struggled the most the past several years. It would be fun to have another weapon though.

A lot of people point to our wide receivers in regards to the lack of success with the deep ball. I think the offensive line is more to blame. Can't throw the ball deep if we only have a couple seconds to throw it to avoid a sack. Same goes for the defensive side. It's easy for opposing QB's to pick us apart if they have all day to throw. These two areas are extremely important in regards to winning football (blocking and pass rush/penetration).

And that's what happens when you don't properly address all your needs in FA.
It will likely leave you with gaps after the draft and/or force you into drafting for need.

As I said in another thread, a "solid" draft only yields 2 starters and probably one other decent contributor.
You also shouldn't typically expect any reasonable contribution from a Day 3 draft pick as a rookie except for ST.
So if you go OL and DL with the first two picks, you may have to be willing to accept that a pass catcher you take may only contribute a few hundred yards and a TD or two as a rookie.

I would have been more willing to accept that for the Bengals if they had gone out and signed a cheaper FA like Reynolds, Watkins, or Conley to be WR3 to give a drafted pass catcher more time to develop.

I think the Bengals can afford to draft a Rd 2 or 3 OT guy because they can put him at OG for a year before potentially moving him into the RT spot.
Or, if they draft two OL between Rds 2-4, it would allow one to start at OG while the other serves as the swing OT.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(04-14-2021, 02:32 PM)J24 Wrote: Daniels isn't good and hasn't been healthy the last three seasons. He's a good guy but I'm not confident in him as a player. Tupou is good but I'm not even sure we know he is coming back + he offers very little as a pass rusher.
Tate has had some success here and Thomas seemed to have a connection with Burrow when he played.

Regardless we need help at both positions. Would like to add at least two guys to both groups.

Terrible take.

Have you seen what he caused in the run game last year? Guy blew up a whole bunch of plays, just by getting off blocks, getting leverage on his blocker or just making the tackle himself.

Super-underrated; I wouldn't count on him as a starter anymore, but he 100% makes an impact.

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-14-2021, 06:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And that's what happens when you don't properly address all your needs in FA.
It will likely leave you with gaps after the draft and/or force you into drafting for need.

As I said in another thread, a "solid" draft only yields 2 starters and probably one other decent contributor.
You also shouldn't typically expect any reasonable contribution from a Day 3 draft pick as a rookie except for ST.
So if you go OL and DL with the first two picks, you may have to be willing to accept that a pass catcher you take may only contribute a few hundred yards and a TD or two as a rookie.

I would have been more willing to accept that for the Bengals if they had gone out and signed a cheaper FA like Reynolds, Watkins, or Conley to be WR3 to give a drafted pass catcher more time to develop.

I think the Bengals can afford to draft a Rd 2 or 3 OT guy because they can put him at OG for a year before potentially moving him into the RT spot.
Or, if they draft two OL between Rds 2-4, it would allow one to start at OG while the other serves as the swing OT.

I also see Tee taking another step forward this year. So I guess I'm not too worried about wide receiver. It would be nice to have 3 great receivers, but I'd rather have (2) and a great offensive line. If we had (3) starting caliber tackles on our team we'd have a lot of flexibility with our depth. One tackle kicks in to guard and backs up both tackle spots. This excites me more than having 3 legit wide receivers--mainly because of the past several years of such terrible offensive line play. But I also hold the opinion that a franchise LT is more valuable than a franchise WR.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2021, 06:53 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I also see Tee taking another step forward this year. So I guess I'm not too worried about wide receiver. It would be nice to have 3 great receivers, but I'd rather have (2) and a great offensive line. If we had (3) starting caliber tackles on our team we'd have a lot of flexibility with our depth. One tackle kicks in to guard and backs up both tackle spots. This excites me more than having 3 legit wide receivers--mainly because of the past several years of such terrible offensive line play. But I also hold the opinion that a franchise LT is more valuable than a franchise WR.

If this offense were a more traditional offense that focused most targets towards two WRs (Higgins and Boyd) with more targets also going to TE and RB such that the third WR wasn't as important, I would agree. There would for sure be a concern though if Boyd and/or Higgins got hurt though. Tate, Thomas, and a mid-round or late-round WR would not be good depth. It could be fine though if they focused more on the running game and getting the TEs involved in the passing game.

[J24]

(04-14-2021, 06:37 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Terrible take.

Have you seen what he caused in the run game last year? Guy blew up a whole bunch of plays, just by getting off blocks, getting leverage on his blocker or just making the tackle himself.

Super-underrated; I wouldn't count on him as a starter anymore, but he 100% makes an impact.

He made a couple of plays didn't do anything else.