Is Collinsworth underrated as a Bengals great?

[Shake n Blake]

I was watching the interview with Burrow, and decided to look up Collinsworth's reference page for the first time in years out of sheer boredom. I was surprised to see how dominant the guy was over his first 6 years.

3 pro bowls
2x all pro
4x 1000 yards
2x 1100 yards
Averaged 16.1 yards/catch for his entire career

He's one of few players who played in both of our Super Bowls. So where is the respect for this guy? I know he fell off quickly after some injuries including ACL, but he clearly deserves mention among our all-time greats.

He had a career that was on par with Isaac Curtis and better than Pickens, but with the way people generally talk about the guy, you wouldn't guess it.

I get if his personality rubs some people the wrong way (I've never taken issue with the guy), but that doesn't mean we should deny that the guy was a great Bengal.

Thoughts?

Also you can throw out other Bengals greats you feel are underappreciated.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I believe that players must be assessed relative to their own eras of play, so I don't tend to place a ton of emphasis on direct statistical comparisons. I also avoid Pro Bowls just because of poor Ken Riley and his zero.

Still, Collinsworth was productive relative to his own era and he deserves to be lauded accordingly. I recently compiled an all-time Bengals 53-man roster, and I had him as the #6 WR out of 6 (behind Curtis, Johnson, Green, Pickens, and Houshmandzadeh). I don't think he is quite on the level of Isaac just because of the weird statistics of the '70s. Curtis was one of the greatest deep threats of all time in the eyes of some, and I think there's validity to the argument. He doesn't have the touchdown production to compete with Pickens or the possession capacity to compete with T.J. (though that's a very difficult comparison to gauge, but T.J.'s three 90+ catch seasons are hard to ignore).

Basically, Collinsworth was awesome. I have him ahead of very good players like Eddie Brown and Darnay Scott. Tyler Boyd is doing good work to threaten his position though.

Wide receiver is probably the Bengals' greatest historical position group if not offensive line (somehow as weird as that seems today).

[*bengalfan74*]

If Collinsworth hadn't become an announcer he'd be right up there at the top in most peoples eyes. But as you mention he's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way by not saying everything Bengals is great at all times.

I like you don't have that big a problem with him. He should be in the best Bengals of all time discussion.

[impactplaya]

He was the 1st Bengals WR to break.the 1000 yd barrier in a single season. He was such a clutch 3rd down WR.
Without him the Bengals never went that 1st SB. Issac Curtis had
His targets reduced and David Verser had issues learning the playbook coming.from dumb downed offense at Kansas.
Somebody had to put some big play ability in.that offense.
Great great WR.

[Bengalholic]

[fredtoast]

Collinsworth had a decent career but it was short and not hugely productive.

Since passing stats change so much from era to era the only way to compare receivers and QBs is how they stacked up against the competition when they played.  Collinsworth only had 2 seasons where he finished in the top 10 in receiving yards ('82 and '85) and only one where he finished in the top 10 in receptions (1982).

As far as I know he was never an All-Pro selection but he went to the Pro bowl his first three seasons.

But Collinsworth did have a knack for having his best games against top competition.

His rookie season he caught the game winning td in the 4th quarter of the Bengals first ever post season win (Bills).  That same year he led the Bengals in receiving yards in the Super Bowl (107) including a 49 yard bomb that set the Bengals up at the Niner's 14 yard line (unfortunately the Bengals were stuffed at the goal line).  Three of his biggest games during the regular season that year were against playoff teams, (Buff 10 rec 111 yds 1 td and Bills, 4 rec, 97 yds) and the Steelers ( 8 rec 90 yds)

In 1982 his two best games were against playoff teams (Steelers 9 rec, 144 yds, Chargers 9 rec, 156 yds)

In 1983 again 2 of his best regular season games were against playoff teams (Broncos 7 rec, 149 yds, Dolphins 8 rec, 127 yds) and in the playoff game against the Jets he had 7 receptions for 120 yds

His best game in 1984 was against the 13-3 Broncos (10 rec, 141 yds)

Two of his best games in 1985 were against Division Champions Browns (8 rec 135 yds) and Cowboys (7 rec 123 yds)

His best 3 games of 1986 were against the Bears legendary #1 ranked defense (6 rec 115 yds) the Super Bowl bound Broncos (8 rec 138 yds) and the playoff bound Jets (5 rec 95 yds)

His 2 best games in 1987 were against the playoff bound Oilers (combined 12 receptions 240 yds)

By '88 he was washed up.



 

[Shake n Blake]

(04-22-2021, 08:51 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: I believe that players must be assessed relative to their own eras of play, so I don't tend to place a ton of emphasis on direct statistical comparisons. I also avoid Pro Bowls just because of poor Ken Riley and his zero.

Still, Collinsworth was productive relative to his own era and he deserves to be lauded accordingly. I recently compiled an all-time Bengals 53-man roster, and I had him as the #6 WR out of 6 (behind Curtis, Johnson, Green, Pickens, and Houshmandzadeh). I don't think he is quite on the level of Isaac just because of the weird statistics of the '70s. Curtis was one of the greatest deep threats of all time in the eyes of some, and I think there's validity to the argument. He doesn't have the touchdown production to compete with Pickens or the possession capacity to compete with T.J. (though that's a very difficult comparison to gauge, but T.J.'s three 90+ catch seasons are hard to ignore).

Basically, Collinsworth was awesome. I have him ahead of very good players like Eddie Brown and Darnay Scott. Tyler Boyd is doing good work to threaten his position though.

Wide receiver is probably the Bengals' greatest historical position group if not offensive line (somehow as weird as that seems today).

I give CC some credit for being a key cog on some of our greatest teams, so for that reason I have him edging out Pick. Considering eras, I have CC ahead of Housh...who I loved. I'd just say he had a better sustained stretch of seasons than Housh did, and with less throwing going on. More of a big play guy as well.

So my list would look like:

1. Chad
2. AJ
3. Curtis
4. CC
5. Pick
6. Housh
7. Eddie Brown (super tough choice between he, Pick and Housh)
8. Darnay

Respect everyone's opinion though. It's a toss up between the 5 guys after Chad and AJ, IMO.

[Stewy]

Quote:Is Collinsworth underrated as a Bengals great?

yes - by a lot

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

My favorite Collinsworth fact that I just learned today?

He went to Astronaut High School.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut_High_School

Sadly not actually a high school for Astronauts, but I would never stop telling people I went to Astronaut High School if I had gone.


- - - - -
(Also apparently the HS of All-Pro LB DPoY Wilber Marshall, 2 other NFL players, and comedian Daniel Tosh. The more you know.)

[MaineBengal]

Collinsworth was my favorite player in the early-mid 80s. Such a dynamic deep player, and his personality was fire. The only knock against him as a player is longevity. But for those 6 or 7 years he was as exciting as any player in the league. If he'd played 10-12 years or more at that level he'd be right up there with Isaac, Chad, and AJ.

Interestingly, in retrospect we might make the same arguments about AJ. From 2011-2018 until he got hurt he was awesome.

Bengals have been blessed with a lot of really good WRs over the years.

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2021, 09:00 PM)impactplaya Wrote: He was the 1st Bengals WR to break.the 1000 yd barrier in a single season.

It was a really big deal at the time because only 1 or 2 rookies in NFL history had ever done that before.

Maybe 3, I don't remember, but it wasn't many.

Also the same year we went to our first Super Bowl.

And, I hate to say this, but I think at the time Collinsworth was more popular because he was a white WR.  He was always well-spoken and had a vibrant personality, but it didn't hurt that he was white.

[jfkbengals]

I've always considered him as one of the greats. He is very underrated by the majority of the fan base.

[sandwedge]

(04-22-2021, 09:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I give CC some credit for being a key cog on some of our greatest teams, so for that reason I have him edging out Pick. Considering eras, I have CC ahead of Housh...who I loved. I'd just say he had a better sustained stretch of seasons than Housh did, and with less throwing going on. More of a big play guy as well.

So my list would look like:

1. Chad
2. AJ
3. Curtis
4. CC
5. Pick
6. Housh
7. Eddie Brown (super tough choice between he, Pick and Housh)
8. Darnay

Respect everyone's opinion though. It's a toss up between the 5 guys after Chad and AJ, IMO.

I would agree with your list. Imagine though, if Curtis had played in an era where pass interference was called...

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2021, 08:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Also you can throw out other Bengals greats you feel are underappreciated.

1. Kyle Cook, OC Before the 2012 season Pat Kirwan wrote an article about offensive linemen that had not gotten the Pro Bowl credit they deserve. He had Cook #1 at OC..... "1. Kyle Cook, Cincinnati Bengals: Offensive line coach Paul Alexander knew he found a very good player when the undrafted rookie free agent was signed from Michigan State in 2008. Four years and 48 starts later, Cook has given up one sack every 12 games. " Unfortunately Cook suffered a foot injury in preseason that year and never fully recovered. He played the first four games before going on IR. He returned in 2013 and started all 16 games, but he was not the same player. He retired after the season.


2. Rodney Holman, TE In Holeman's era tight ends were more blocker and less receiver. Holeman was not a big bruiser, but he thrived on the Wyche/Esiason teams. He was one of the top TEs in the league for a six year stretch ('85-'90). Over that period he ranked #1 among TEs in TDs and #3 in receiving yards. Among the 30 TEs that had at least 100 receptions he ranked #1 in yards per catch. Holman went to three Pro Bowls ('88-'90). He was second in receptions on our '88 Super Bowl team, and he was the leading receiver in our last playoff victory.

3. Dan Wilkinson, DT/DE Never lived up to his draft hype, but was one of the best Bengal DTs ever. Led AFC interior linemen in sacks in '95, and his total of 20 from '94 to '96 was 6th among NFL DT/NT. Moved to DE in '97. His true value was reflected in the fact that when we traded him to Washington we got a 1st and a 3rd pick in return. Played 13 seasons in the NFL starting 182 games. Gets a lot of hate for being an underachiever and calling Cincinnati a "racist city".

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-22-2021, 08:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was watching the interview with Burrow, and decided to look up Collinsworth's reference page for the first time in years out of sheer boredom. I was surprised to see how dominant the guy was over his first 6 years.

3 pro bowls
2x all pro
4x 1000 yards
2x 1100 yards
Averaged 16.1 yards/catch for his entire career

He's one of few players who played in both of our Super Bowls. So where is the respect for this guy? I know he fell off quickly after some injuries including ACL, but he clearly deserves mention among our all-time greats.

He had a career that was on par with Isaac Curtis and better than Pickens, but with the way people generally talk about the guy, you wouldn't guess it.

I get if his personality rubs some people the wrong way (I've never taken issue with the guy), but that doesn't mean we should deny that the guy was a great Bengal.

Thoughts?

Also you can throw out other Bengals greats you feel are underappreciated.

I definitely had a big issue with his seeming Steeler love but after watching his A Football Life, i eased up. He's certainly a Bengals great. I'd put him in the top 5.

[kevin]

Collinsworth should never be underrated. If Bengals had not drafted him, no Super Bowl trips in 1980's. Big, Fast, Good Hands.

Young people like to think the athletes today are the best ever. All generations of young people do this. I did it when I was young. It just isn't so. Young people disrespecting history does not make it so. In years to come, young people will say your players of today were lousy grandpa, and no stats or anything will change their young minds.

Besides being good on the field, Trumpy and Collinsworth took turns letting people call in on the radio and talk sports with a Bengals great, as did Nuxhall on radio for Reds. I was lucky to get to talk sports with all 3, and even Pete Rose radio show. I always tried to remember these guys knew more about the game than me, and I was just glad to say Hello to them.

On my All Time Bengals team, I start with Collinsworth of 2 Super Bowls for Bengals. He HAS to be one of the WR's. Unless you know another WR who led Bengals to 2 Super Bowls at WR.

The greatest Collinsworth moment was he predicted Florida would beat Nebraska in 1995 National Championship Game or he would sing the Nebraska School Song on radio. True to his word, he started the radio show singing the Nebraska school song, a moment he would like to forget probably.

Looking at Bengals Super Bowl Teams, I think NFL Hall of Fame has underrated Max Montoya, plus he went onto more Pro Bowls with Raiders in 1990's. The NFL Hall of Fame has no guards better than Max Montoya.

In 1981 the Bengals started average, and in a boring start to a Browns game, this rookie named Collinsworth flew down field and caught a bomb over his head like Willie Mays and took it to the house. Something the Bengals had been missing. Collinsworth was 6'5", but people forget he was one of the fastest players in the NFL. Those who think Henry was big and fast, you should have seen Collinsworth. Plus Co0llinsworth was good on slant routes taking the hit over the middle when head hunting was legal. Near the goal line. Anderson to Collinsworth TD happened fast. As soon as ball snapped Collinsworth on ground in end zone catching quick slant pass from Anderson before Defense knew what hit them. Their timing on THAT PLAY was amazing.

[Sled21]

Collinsworth was a really good receiver who does not get his due. He was as solid as they come. I'd have him at 4th or 5th on the Bengals all time. Plus, he played on Astroturf, which for you young un's was basically green plastic grass over concrete. I'm actually surprised anyone who played a position where they got tackled had any longevity back then.

[XenoMorph]

(04-22-2021, 08:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was watching the interview with Burrow, and decided to look up Collinsworth's reference page for the first time in years out of sheer boredom. I was surprised to see how dominant the guy was over his first 6 years.

3 pro bowls
2x all pro
4x 1000 yards
2x 1100 yards
Averaged 16.1 yards/catch for his entire career

He's one of few players who played in both of our Super Bowls. So where is the respect for this guy? I know he fell off quickly after some injuries including ACL, but he clearly deserves mention among our all-time greats.

He had a career that was on par with Isaac Curtis and better than Pickens, but with the way people generally talk about the guy, you wouldn't guess it.

I get if his personality rubs some people the wrong way (I've never taken issue with the guy), but that doesn't mean we should deny that the guy was a great Bengal.

Thoughts?

Also you can throw out other Bengals greats you feel are underappreciated.

constantly had bad things to say about the bengals.   Kinda like boomer.

Good players though

[TJ528]

(04-23-2021, 08:21 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Collinsworth was a really good receiver who does not get his due. He was as solid as they come. I'd have him at 4th or 5th on the Bengals all time. Plus, he played on Astroturf, which for you young un's was basically green plastic grass over concrete. I'm actually surprised anyone who played a position where they got tackled had any longevity back then.

in the 80's my 2 favorite receivers were Collinsworth and Eddie Brown.  Throw in Tim McGee and Rodney Holman and you had a dangerous receiving corp.  I do agree that I think the turf back then really took the longevity of a lot of these guys careers because they were basically playing on green painted blacktop pavement.  That stuff sucked back in the day I remember playing on it.  

I think Collinsworth is good enough to some day get into the ROH, but I don't think it'll be for awhile because there's so many other players who should've been in the ring before him.  

[fredtoast]

(04-23-2021, 04:43 AM)kevin Wrote:  Collinsworth was 6'5", but people forget he was one of the fastest players in the NFL.   Those who think Henry was big and fast, you should have seen Collinsworth. 

Don't know if he was one of the fastest in the league, but he certainly does not get enough credit for how much raw speed he had.

I remember seeing an interview with a family member, maybe a brother or a cousin, who talked about winning money on Cris when he won the 100 yd dash at the Florida High School state championships.  Florida always has some of the fastest high school athletes in the country and Collinsworth was just a gangly white kid who did not look like he had a chance.  But that guy could fly.