Jackson Carmen hahahahaha

[Shake n Blake]

(05-01-2021, 11:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: It's absolutely comical how many people on this board think they are better judges of Offensive Line talent than Frank Pollack is.

It's also funny how no one cared that 99% of former Bengals legends wanted Sewell, but now we suddenly care what guys like Willie and Pollack have to say about Carman.

[TheBengalsMind]

There still seems to be some misunderstanding about a herniated disc.

At least 53 NFL players underwent surgery for a herniated disc, although it's believed to be far higher. That's since 1979. Most play at least 3-4 years of football and most of them come at the twilight of their career.

On average it's believed that at least 14% percent of draft prospects already have disc herniation by the time they reach the combine.

One study of Olympic athletes found that 85% have either disc degenerations or herniations. So, it's believed the NFL numbers are actually higher.

Tony Romo had disc herniation and cyst on his back most of his career, of course it only gets talked about once he has the surgery in 2013. But he was in the pro bowl the next year.

JJ Watt has suffered from them in his career. He has been noted has not always following doctors orders and rushing back and reaggravated throughout his career.

For an average joe lifestyle it generally takes 6 weeks.

For a professional athlete 3 months on average compiled of 53 known surgeries.

The only time it gets into a year time frame is it it's a spinal fusion type of surgery like Peyton Manning had.

Now if the disc herniation is compounded by a fracture it could be a lot worse.

Also just an hfi we once drafted a tackle that as a freshman tore ligaments in his right knee in the ninth game. Then as a junior he tore ligaments in the same knee in the seventh game. Then, as a senior he tore ligaments in his left knee
in the season opener.

They said it was possible for him to come back by the bowl game, but he did. Watching the game with more than a passing interest was Bengals founder and general manager Paul Brown.

He made him the 3rd overall pick. Today he is regarded as the single greatest offensive lineman to ever play the game. Anthony Munoz.

Now, this could be something that keeps him from playing. Maybe it does destroy his career.

But my suspicion is this probably isn't the death nail that some believe it is.

But we all will certainly find out soon enough.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-01-2021, 02:30 PM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: There still seems to be some misunderstanding about a herniated disc.

At least 53 NFL players underwent surgery for a herniated disc, although it's believed to be far higher. That's since 1979. Most play at least 3-4 years of football and most of them come at the twilight of their career.

On average it's believed that at least 14% percent of draft prospects already have disc herniation by the time they reach the combine.

One study of Olympic athletes found that 85% have either disc degenerations or herniations. So, it's believed the NFL numbers are actually higher.

Tony Romo had disc herniation and cyst on his back most of his career, of course it only gets talked about once he has the surgery in 2013. But he was in the pro bowl the next year.

JJ Watt has suffered from them in his career. He has been noted has not always following doctors orders and rushing back and reaggravated throughout his career.

For an average joe lifestyle it generally takes 6 weeks.

For a professional athlete 3 months on average compiled of 53 known surgeries.

The only time it gets into a year time frame is it it's a spinal fusion type of surgery like Peyton Manning had.

Now if the disc herniation is compounded by a fracture it could be a lot worse.

Also just an hfi we once drafted a tackle that as a freshman tore ligaments in his right knee in the ninth game. Then as a junior he tore ligaments in the same knee in the seventh game. Then, as a senior he tore ligaments in his left knee
in the season opener.

They said it was possible for him to come back by the bowl game, but he did. Watching the game with more than a passing interest was Bengals founder and general manager Paul Brown.

He made him the 3rd overall pick. Today he is regarded as the single greatest offensive lineman to ever play the game. Anthony Munoz.

Now, this could be something that keeps him from playing. Maybe it does destroy his career.

But my suspicion is this probably isn't the death nail that some believe it is.

But we all will certainly find out soon enough.

Thanks for the good info.

[Essex Johnson]

Love how we scrutinize so many other injuries and surgeries even from HS and early in college and the player is playing fine after but when we want to actually address a very recent surgery not so much so how about we try to be consistent on this, I read some defending Carmen injury also adding that Jenkins fell with injury issue.. but he had no surgery and by far out ranked Carmen and Bears got rave reviews for trading up to 39 for him where we could have stayed at 38 and taken him. Finally as I stated before I had a friend who was a walkon in the NFL was hurt in tryouts had same surgery and could did not return to 100 percent and had back issues still pop up. So this injury can have lingering results.

[Sled21]

(05-01-2021, 03:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Love how we scrutinize so many other injuries and surgeries even from HS and early in college and the player is playing fine after but when we want to actually address a very recent surgery not so much so how about we try to be consistent on this, I read some defending Carmen injury also adding that Jenkins fell with injury issue.. but he had no surgery and by far out ranked Carmen and Bears got rave reviews for trading up to 39 for him where we could have stayed at 38 and taken him.  Finally as  I stated before I had a friend who was a walkon in the NFL was hurt in tryouts  had same surgery and  could did not return to 100 percent and had back issues still pop up.  So this injury can have lingering results.

I remember when we drafted an oft injured OT with two repaired knees and people lost their minds, thinking he would never last. He is now our only HOFer

[Shouldamapads]

I had a herniated disk about 2 years ago. I’m a big dude, but I still play tennis. I thought it was sciatica. The chiropractor tried to adjust me and I about jumped off the table.

For the average joe that doesn’t understand discs- think of them as a jelly donut that fits between your vertebrae. Mine was being pinched- so I was having burning pain down my legs and back. It took about 5 months to heal without surgery.

I could have gone through surgery and rebounded much quicker.

Past the healing, I am fine, but did gain weight due to being so immobile.

He is probably about healed if not ready now- I’m 50, so I am sure his body will heal quickly.

[OSUfan]

(05-01-2021, 03:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Love how we scrutinize so many other injuries and surgeries even from HS and early in college and the player is playing fine after but when we want to actually address a very recent surgery not so much so how about we try to be consistent on this, I read some defending Carmen injury also adding that Jenkins fell with injury issue.. but he had no surgery and by far out ranked Carmen and Bears got rave reviews for trading up to 39 for him where we could have stayed at 38 and taken him.  Finally as  I stated before I had a friend who was a walkon in the NFL was hurt in tryouts  had same surgery and  could did not return to 100 percent and had back issues still pop up.  So this injury can have lingering results.

Sure any procedure can have lingering effects however you seem to be using your friend, the outlier, as reasoning to have a negative outlook on the selection. It seem the NFL has some pretty good faith in many of the procedures being performed these days and the recovery statistics involved with them. 

First round selection Caleb Farley underwent a disc surgery on March 23 which is his second back procedure since 2019.

[Murdock2420]

(05-01-2021, 03:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I remember when we drafted an oft injured OT with two repaired knees and people lost their minds, thinking he would never last. He is now our only HOFer

If Paul Brown picked Carman no one would question it, as Paul earned the right to do his own thing and showed he knew what he was doing.

People are allowed to be critical and question every single move Mike Brown makes since he has won nothing and shown that he can not make good football decisions.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2021, 04:36 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: People are allowed to be critical and question every single move Mike Brown makes since he has won nothing and shown that he can not make good football decisions.

Mike Brown makes more bad decisions than good, but yiu can't say he has never made any good football decisions.

Therefore you can't say every move is bad just because Mike Brown is in charge.

[Murdock2420]

(05-01-2021, 04:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown makes more bad decisions than good, but yiu can't say he has never made any good football decisions.

Therefore you can't say every move is bad just because Mike Brown is in charge.

Fair to say they haven't all been bad but with his track record as you said, there is far more bad then good, therefore people still have the right to be highly critical of anything he does until he starts to show a better track record of decisions and in the win loss column.

[OSUfan]

(05-01-2021, 04:36 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If Paul Brown picked Carman no one would question it, as Paul earned the right to do his own thing and showed he knew what he was doing.

People are allowed to be critical and question every single move Mike Brown makes since he has won nothing and shown that he can not make good football decisions.

Can you prove to me that Mike Brown made the selection? Sure he is the owner and has final say but I believe he is not making the personnel decisions that some seem to think he is making these days. I believe the majority of those decisions are being made by Tobin and the staff with the Blackburns handling contract details and the financials of deals. Mike may end up rubber stamping the decision but I don't think he is making most of them.

[Murdock2420]

(05-01-2021, 04:47 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Can you prove to me that Mike Brown made the selection? Sure he is the owner and has final say but I believe he is not making the personnel decisions that some seem to think he is making these days. I believe the majority of those decisions are being made by Tobin and the staff with the Blackburns handling contract details and the financials of deals. Mike may end up rubber stamping the decision but I don't think he is making most of them.

I'm not against the pick. 

I'm simply stating that people are allowed to be critical because it is Mike Brown's choice.

Now, did Mike make the actual pick? No clue, but here is what is known. Mike is still involved in the draft process and has input and that the other guy with a lot of say in the draft is... Duke Tobin, who Mike hired and has stood by even when coaches have been shown the door. So, anything Tobin does is a direct extension of Mike Brown and a result of Mike keeping him even after letting Marvin go.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2021, 04:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Fair to say they haven't all been bad but with his track record as you said, there is far more bad then good, therefore people still have the right to be highly critical of anything he does until he starts to show a better track record of decisions and in the win loss column.

No they don't.  They have to judge each decision separately based on its own merits.  It makes them sound stupid to say "It is wrong just because the Bengals did it".

[Murdock2420]

(05-01-2021, 04:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No they don't.  They have to judge each decision separately based on its own merits.  It makes them sound stupid to say "It is wrong just because the Bengals did it".

Have to completely disagree here Fred, the track record shows that far more often then not, Mike will make the wrong decision. You can find stories of him voting against rule changes when every other owner would vote for it. Mike does not get the benefit of the doubt at this point and it would be foolish to give it to him in any situation. His choices from now on can be viewed with a critical look until proven otherwise.

He hasn't given the fanbase anything since he took over except the longest playoff win drought in NFL history and the record for the fastest Owner to reach 100 losses.

He gets no slack till the team actually wins something. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

It's a poor pick. He lacks the physical tools to play OT (arms too short) so we have to move him to guard. He has technique issues in pass protection. And medical flags (back). We likely could have picked him later (Rd 3 or 4). It is a poor pick.

As was the kicker in the 5th. Borregales was the pick there.

I don't think any of the R4 extras has me celebrating the trade down. I'd rather have Jenkins. Or Humphrey. Or either of the guys from ND.

[Destro]

[SadFaceBengal15]

Still not a fan of carman in two but maybe he will prove it to be a good pick however the bengals regardless if they draft me with their last pick have absolutely killed this draft and have put themselves and their future in a very good spot for success. I’m pumped about every pick so far cept the carman pick but his potential size flexibility and how he fits what we want is positive.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-01-2021, 02:30 PM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: There still seems to be some misunderstanding about a herniated disc.

At least 53 NFL players underwent surgery for a herniated disc, although it's believed to be far higher. That's since 1979. Most play at least 3-4 years of football and most of them come at the twilight of their career.

On average it's believed that at least 14% percent of draft prospects already have disc herniation by the time they reach the combine.

One study of Olympic athletes found that 85% have either disc degenerations or herniations. So, it's believed the NFL numbers are actually higher.

Tony Romo had disc herniation and cyst on his back most of his career, of course it only gets talked about once he has the surgery in 2013. But he was in the pro bowl the next year.

JJ Watt has suffered from them in his career. He has been noted has not always following doctors orders and rushing back and reaggravated throughout his career.

For an average joe lifestyle it generally takes 6 weeks.

For a professional athlete 3 months on average compiled of 53 known surgeries.

The only time it gets into a year time frame is it it's a spinal fusion type of surgery like Peyton Manning had.

Now if the disc herniation is compounded by a fracture it could be a lot worse.

Also just an hfi we once drafted a tackle that as a freshman tore ligaments in his right knee in the ninth game. Then as a junior he tore ligaments in the same knee in the seventh game. Then, as a senior he tore ligaments in his left knee
in the season opener.

They said it was possible for him to come back by the bowl game, but he did. Watching the game with more than a passing interest was Bengals founder and general manager Paul Brown.

He made him the 3rd overall pick. Today he is regarded as the single greatest offensive lineman to ever play the game. Anthony Munoz.

Now, this could be something that keeps him from playing. Maybe it does destroy his career.

But my suspicion is this probably isn't the death nail that some believe it is.

But we all will certainly find out soon enough.

Nice post TBM.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-01-2021, 04:33 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Sure any procedure can have lingering effects however you seem to be using your friend, the outlier, as reasoning to have a negative outlook on the selection. It seem the NFL has some pretty good faith in many of the procedures being performed these days and the recovery statistics involved with them. 

First round selection Caleb Farley underwent a disc surgery on March 23 which is his second back procedure since 2019.

Here's where I'm going to differ with you.  In the big picture, his friend isn't the outlier, he's the norm.  It's the ones who have procedures and return to continue at a high level that are the true outliers.

Until you've experienced the injury, felt the effects, rehabbed from it?  You really have no idea of what is entailed by the generic term 'back injury" or "herniated disc".  The real problem is regaining the confidence to go 100%, once the "healing" is done.  I quote the healing word, because it's never fully healed.  It's always weakened and suspect to relapses at any time.  Over the nearly 20 years that I've lived with herniated discs, I've had some good stretches.  Sometimes as long as two or three years between relapses, times where I was able to get back to near competitive lifting strength, able to compete in the sport of Strongman (save for max DL).  A couple of things that I was never able to do again?  Play football, straight up blocking was alright, but moving contact like on pulls or tackling when on defense?  The shock just went straight back to my nerves.  I also was never able to waterski again, a former passion of mine.  The shock from all of the turbulence just travels right up my posterior chain and makes pressure on the nerves.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2021, 06:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's where I'm going to differ with you.  In the big picture, his friend isn't the outlier, he's the norm.  It's the ones who have procedures and return to continue at a high level that are the true outliers.

Until you've experienced the injury, felt the effects, rehabbed from it?  You really have no idea of what is entailed by the generic term 'back injury" or "herniated disc".  The real problem is regaining the confidence to go 100%, once the "healing" is done.  I quote the healing word, because it's never fully healed.  It's always weakened and suspect to relapses at any time.  Over the nearly 20 years that I've lived with herniated discs, I've had some good stretches.  Sometimes as long as two or three years between relapses, times where I was able to get back to near competitive lifting strength, able to compete in the sport of Strongman (save for max DL).  A couple of things that I was never able to do again?  Play football, straight up blocking was alright, but moving contact like on pulls or tackling when on defense?  The shock just went straight back to my nerves.  I also was never able to waterski again, a former passion of mine.  The shock from all of the turbulence just travels right up my posterior chain and makes pressure on the nerves.

His case is obviously much different from yours because he actually started at LT for Clemson last year with this injury.