A broader point to consider re the Chase pick...

[BritishBengal]

Why not eek a bit more out of this topic right?!

In all seriousness, something to consider here, which I think has been overlooked is the impact this has in keeping Burrow on board.

Let me expand and contextualize my point. Some of the bigger offseason dramas of late have involved star QBs being publicly disgruntled with their teams direction and decision making. The obvious one this season is Rodgers. The Packers have frequently neglected drafting him weapons, keeping him engaged and taking him seriously. Prior to that it was Watson (pre rub-downgate). Deshaun felt isolated from personnel decisions and clearly loathed the way the team was having a bumper sale with star assets. Then there was Russell Wilson, who publically took exception to how the team were operating offensively. Need I even mention Carson Palmer...

All of these issues stem from a coaching staff and star QB at odds with one another. We can argue the hind legs off a horse regarding Sewell/Chase (which we have) but what of the impact of overrulling Burrow on his clear preference at 5. As much as fans like to talk about players and prospects as individual talents, this will always remain a team sport. Our moves the last two years in the draft have reunited a number of teammates and you can tell from social media alone that these young Bengals are happy and proud to be playing together. We shouldn't overlook this. Taylor is doing a great job of working closely with Burrow and keeping him a large part of future plans. A happy team is far more likely to be a successful team!

[GreenCornBengal]

I had this thought yesterday and agree with you to some degree. At the end of the day tho both Burrow and Chase would admit it’s a business. Who you play with is who you play with.

I do see a theme with a lot of our pickups lately though, and I find it interesting. We’ve been attaining a lot of guys who have reasons to play for Cincinnati outside of just a paycheck.

Chase — reunited with Burrow, plays hard for his QB
Carmen — hometown kid
Higgins — cinci was his favorite team
Burrow — the Ohio wonder
Hubbard — hometown kid

There are some others, those are just the ones at the top of mind for me.

I don’t know if this is on purpose, and idk if it s effective or not but definitely think there is something to it. I like the potential chemistry across this team and just hope these coaches can turn the corner.

[Bengalstripes9]

I wonder if so many qbs being upset with their organizations this year has to do with watching Tom Brady turn a turd of a team into a super bowl team because the organization made the right moves. Yet, they’ve been sitting there struggling because there isn’t enough around them to succeed (Watson, Wilson, and Rodgers up until last year). If Rodgers had tee higgens last year, could that have pushed the needle for the team? Yet the bucs are doing whatever Brady asks, and paying him.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-02-2021, 12:20 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Why not eek a bit more out of this topic right?!

In all seriousness, something to consider here, which I think has been overlooked is the impact this has in keeping Burrow on board.

Let me expand and contextualize my point. Some of the bigger offseason dramas of late have involved star QBs being publicly disgruntled with their teams direction and decision making. The obvious one this season is Rodgers. The Packers have frequently neglected drafting him weapons, keeping him engaged and taking him seriously. Prior to that it was Watson (pre rub-downgate). Deshaun felt isolated from personnel decisions and clearly loathed the way the team was having a bumper sale with star assets. Then there was Russell Wilson, who publically took exception to how the team were operating offensively. Need I even mention Carson Palmer...

All of these issues stem from a coaching staff and star QB at odds with one another. We can argue the hind legs off a horse regarding Sewell/Chase (which we have) but what of the impact of overrulling Burrow on his clear preference at 5. As much as fans like to talk about players and prospects as individual talents, this will always remain a team sport. Our moves the last two years in the draft have reunited a number of teammates and you can tell from social media alone that these young Bengals are happy and proud to be playing together. We shouldn't overlook this. Taylor is doing a great job of working closely with Burrow and keeping him a large part of future plans. A happy team is far more likely to be a successful team!

So far he seems happy here, but I do worry that if he takes a beating like last year that he may sour on the team pretty quickly.  We have seen plenty of our premier players become disgruntled over the years.  Like Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, Spikes.  If I was him I would care about my long term future if the team repeatedly ignores the OL, or does a poor job improving it.  I could also see him retiring early if there are multiple seasons like last season.

[Dr.Z]

(05-02-2021, 12:31 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I wonder if so many qbs being upset with their organizations this year has to do with watching Tom Brady turn a turd of a team into a super bowl team because the organization made the right moves. Yet, they’ve been sitting there struggling because there isn’t enough around them to succeed (Watson, Wilson, and Rodgers up until last year). If Rodgers had tee higgens last year, could that have pushed the needle for the team? Yet the bucs are doing whatever Brady asks, and paying him.

Good point.  I absolutely think it relates to Rodgers' situation.   I think he probably had some frustration beforehand, but that seeing what happened with Brady might have moved the needle significantly.  I think Rodgers would've won a Super Bowl on that Bucs team too, and a few others w/ some better surroundings.  

[Bengalstripes9]

(05-02-2021, 12:35 AM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: So far he seems happy here, but I do worry that if he takes a beating like last year that he may sour on the team pretty quickly.  We have seen plenty of our premier players become disgruntled over the years.  Like Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, Spikes.  If I was him I would care about my long term future if the team repeatedly ignores the OL, or does a poor job improving it.  I could also see him retiring early if there are multiple seasons like last season.

I agree. If he sees a few years of grade F offensive line play, it may get old for him. I’m hopeful they’ll turn it around though.

[BritishBengal]

(05-02-2021, 12:31 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I had this thought yesterday and agree with you to some degree. At the end of the day tho both Burrow and Chase would admit it’s a business. Who you play with is who you play with.

I do see a theme with a lot of our pickups lately though, and I find it interesting. We’ve been attaining a lot of guys who have reasons to play for Cincinnati outside of just a paycheck.

Chase — reunited with Burrow, plays hard for his QB
Carmen — hometown kid
Higgins — cinci was his favorite team
Burrow — the Ohio wonder
Hubbard — hometown kid

There are some others, those are just the ones at the top of mind for me.

I don’t know if this is on purpose, and idk if it s effective or not but definitely think there is something to it. I like the potential chemistry across this team and just hope these coaches can turn the corner.

I think it is a deliberate decision. If you want to turn a teams reputation around you need players that respect the franchise and see it as more than their last and only chance, which was the Lewis era methodology.

[Joelist]

I am not worried right now about Burrow taking another beating because the OL we are rolling out there in 2021 is a lot different than the one in 2020. And it starts with the coach - Pollack is an actual NFL tested and proven teacher and coach. Then you go to the starters Williams - XSF - Hopkins - Spain - Reiff is a LOT stronger than what started last year. And, unlike last year we have promising prospects behind them instead of scrubs like MJ and Redmond. Carman is moving inside to G which is a completely normal thing that a LOT of college Tackles do when drafted. Hill is a good G-C prospect and Smith an excellent Tackle prospect. Add in Adeniji, Johnson and Price and once it all shakes out in camp we will field a FAR deeper OL than last season.

And this pays off in the Bengals wheeling out a base 3 WR formation of Chase, Higgins and Boyd - no one there defenses can safely single up and ignore. We also have a sound backfield. So Burrow should be happy as he has a lot of weapons and the line in front of him has been revamped.

[G man]

Agree completely. I also think given Joe Burrow's history of wanting to prove people wrong and he does seem for now at least all in with the franchize and wanting to build something. He wants to be the best and if he can get a team as badly viewed as us to win something then he proves doubters of both himself and the Bengals wrong.

He plays with a chip on his shoulder but in a good way. The future is very bright

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

While I have been critical of Taylor (and his record merits it), even I have to say one of the things he has excelled at (and there are not many) is his relationship with Burrow. And the OP makes a good point about the Chase pick furthering that relationship.

All the defensive guys seem solid. At least the RD3-4 guys. Ossai was good value at a need. But is a bit of a tweener (but versatile). DE from Tulane & DT from LSU solid depth.

Not too thrilled with any of the other offensive guys and felt we took the kicker a round (or two) early. Wanter another speed guy in 5th (Iowa WR).

Baltimore and Cleveland both did better than us and were better going in. Best case is 3rd in division.

[G man]

(05-02-2021, 01:03 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: While I have been critical of Taylor (and his record merits it), even I have to say one of the things he has excelled at (and there are not many) is his relationship with Burrow. And the OP makes a good point about the Chase pick furthering that relationship.

All the defensive guys seem solid. At least the RD3-4 guys. Ossai was good value at a need. But is a bit of a tweener (but versatile). DE from Tulane & DT from LSU solid depth.

Not too thrilled with any of the other offensive guys and felt we took the kicker a round (or two) early. Wanter another speed guy in 5th (Iowa WR).

Baltimore and Cleveland both did better than us and were better going in. Best case is 3rd in division.

The Taylor burrow one is a difficult one. in all sports often players like a coach and have a good relationship but that doesn't mean he's the right person to get the most productivity. Sometimes players don't even know their limit and their peak and it's a coaches job to bring that out. I would have loved to have seen joe Brady come in because they had a great relationship too except they were actually successful on the field. Think we missed a trick and even more so with the LSU roster.

[maclanta]

(05-02-2021, 12:31 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I wonder if so many qbs being upset with their organizations this year has to do with watching Tom Brady turn a turd of a team into a super bowl team because the organization made the right moves. Yet, they’ve been sitting there struggling because there isn’t enough around them to succeed (Watson, Wilson, and Rodgers up until last year). If Rodgers had tee higgens last year, could that have pushed the needle for the team? Yet the bucs are doing whatever Brady asks, and paying him.

Tom Brady has been relatively cheap for every contract that he has had. Despite being the GOAT, I don’t think he has ever pushed to be the highest payed player in football... His team friendly deals allowed the Patriots and now the Bucs to spread the wealth to a lot of other players. If you add in a competent GM that works the salary cap that team will have a lot of options.


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[Waite Hoyt]

(05-02-2021, 01:03 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: While I have been critical of Taylor (and his record merits it), even I have to say one of the things he has excelled at (and there are not many) is his relationship with Burrow. And the OP makes a good point about the Chase pick furthering that relationship.

All the defensive guys seem solid. At least the RD3-4 guys. Ossai was good value at a need. But is a bit of a tweener (but versatile). DE from Tulane & DT from LSU solid depth.

Not too thrilled with any of the other offensive guys and felt we took the kicker a round (or two) early. Wanter another speed guy in 5th (Iowa WR).

Baltimore and Cleveland both did better than us and were better going in. Best case is 3rd in division.

Agree based on last years results Cleveland and Baltimore were better going in. With that said though defensively getting Tyans, Reader, Wren back will be a huge lift. I think our young Lbs will take a step forward and our free agent additions will also pus the group forward. We have much more depth on the edge.

Special teams with the addition of our new kicker will elevate the group.

Offensively having Burrow for a year with hopefully a training camp will be huge. We up graded at our WR position and a healthy Mixon will be huge. OL will be better with Reiff and a healthy Williams and Hopkins. Also having X and Spain. If we get help out of the draft it will be a plus. I also believe our hold over linemen will be better as depth after the playing time they got.

As always a key to success is teams health and the schedule. Those things aside we are a more talented team then last year.

A side note : this roster in the Taylor era is now completely rebuilt. The Geno,Andy,AJ,Gio,Williams and Dunlop era is over. Lots of talent there but it did not produce a playoff win. It was time to move in and I think we have. Time will tell if that is a good thing.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(05-02-2021, 01:03 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: While I have been critical of Taylor (and his record merits it), even I have to say one of the things he has excelled at (and there are not many) is his relationship with Burrow. And the OP makes a good point about the Chase pick furthering that relationship.

All the defensive guys seem solid. At least the RD3-4 guys. Ossai was good value at a need. But is a bit of a tweener (but versatile). DE from Tulane & DT from LSU solid depth.

Not too thrilled with any of the other offensive guys and felt we took the kicker a round (or two) early. Wanter another speed guy in 5th (Iowa WR).

Baltimore and Cleveland both did better than us and were better going in. Best case is 3rd in division.

3rd last season would have sent us to the play-offs...

[Sled21]

(05-02-2021, 12:35 AM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:
So far he seems happy here, but I do worry that if he takes a beating like last year that he may sour on the team pretty quickly.  We have seen plenty of our premier players become disgruntled over the years.  Like Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, Spikes.  If I was him I would care about my long term future if the team repeatedly ignores the OL, or does a poor job improving it.  I could also see him retiring early if there are multiple seasons like last season.

That's the thing though, he didn't ask for a better O-line, he asked for Ja'Marr Chase, a WR who can get open immediately. The team gave him what he wanted. Were he to take another beating, like you said, he would have no one to blame but himself. Lot's of people on here were criticizing the possibility a young QB would be making personnel decisions, and in the end I don't think he did. But the top two targets were both the best in the draft at their relative positions, and he was given input, which is huge towards keeping you QB happy. Joe obviously felt a better receiver would help him more than one offensive lineman. I think what Taylor and Tobin did was excellent. (I know that will surprise you)

[grampahol]

On paper Baltimore and Cleveland are in better shape, but we all know how injuries can derail even the best of rosters. It's usually the Bengals getting bitten by the injury bug, but not every time. 
Maybe we'll get lucky, no serious injuries and both Baltimore and Cleveland will be decimated before the preseason even starts.. Hey! Maybe both of their planes will crash in mid air together at the same time and we won't have to worry about either team for a long time!  It's not that I wish death or bad things on anyone..just our opposition..
I dunno..perhaps I tend to go over board occasionally.. 

[HarleyDog]

(05-02-2021, 12:07 PM)Sled21 Wrote: That's the thing though, he didn't ask for a better O-line, he asked for Ja'Marr Chase, a WR who can get open immediately. The team gave him what he wanted. Were he to take another beating, like you said, he would have no one to blame but himself. Lot's of people on here were criticizing the possibility a young QB would be making personnel decisions, and in the end I don't think he did. But the top two targets were both the best in the draft at their relative positions, and he was given input, which is huge towards keeping you QB happy. Joe obviously felt a better receiver would help him more than one offensive lineman. I think what Taylor and Tobin did was excellent. (I know that will surprise you)

Doesn't surprise me. I've been a Taylor fan since he came here. Although my patience is starting to run thin because of our W-L record, I think he's a good human and a great personal coach. As for Head Coach, it remains to be seen. But one thing we need is a team who's in it to win it. Well motivated with a brother like feeling. He is trying to achieve that comradery. As we know, there is a lot of moving parts in a game and players need to have symmetry with one another. I think he's pretty decent in that regard.