Carman At Guard- Consulted Willie Anderson

[BFritz21]

(05-05-2021, 02:38 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: A couple podcasts (Hear that podcast Growlin, and Locked on Bengals...both excellent) had the Bengals Director of College Scouting, MIke Potts, on for an interview recently.

I was most interested to hear his opinions on Carman, and the details about the trade back.  He referred to Carman's play at LT as "violent", and that he was often punching his opponent first, rather than retreating and catching.  It was a perfect fit for the RPO that Clemson liked to run.  Jake Liscow asked about his ability to play guard, and mentioned that he felt like Carman "played Tackle like a Guard", in terms of the phone booth space and often met his opponent with a strike.  Potts laughed and said that they felt the same way and everyone in the Bengals room was very high on him, largely because of his physicality.  

Potts also mentioned how impressed they were about Carman's desire to finish the season the last 5 games with a herniated disc in his back, rather than opting out and having the surgery to have time to prepare for the draft.  

I think Carman is our RG for a long time, and I'm very excited about that.  My only wish was instead of Ossai, they took Spencer Brown to develop at RT behind Reiff, but I am very happy about Carman.  

First of all, I know that I'm , but I'm glad that we're finally listening to our scouting department, even if it is tiny, instead of Mike Brown making uneducated decisions because (1) he thought he was as football smart as his old man and (2) he was too cheap to pay for any real scouting.

I love that we selected Carman because of his attitude because that's what this team needs, especially on the offensive line.  I just hope that it's infectious and spreads to the other offensive linemen and the defensive linemen that he blocks in practice because the last things that any competitive football player wants is to (a) be shown up by a teammate, especially a rookie, or (b) to be pushed around by a rookie.

I agree we needed depth at RT and needed to get a guy to develop, but I'm so excited about what Ossai brings and how he'll be able to improve our pass rush that I'm ok with not taking Brown.  It does put us in a tricky situation next season if Reiff walks after this year, but let's hope he stays or that we can sign another quality free agent.

Posts like yours keep getting me more and more excited for the season!  I hope that training camp is open to the public so I can go down in the tunnel at PBS to meet Burrow and some of these other new guys and drop some crippled jokes! 

[XenoMorph]

(05-05-2021, 03:37 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: First of all, I know that I'm , but I'm glad that we're finally listening to our scouting department, even if it is tiny, instead of Mike Brown making uneducated decisions because (1) he thought he was as football smart as his old man and (2) he was too cheap to pay for any real scouting.

I love that we selected Carman because of his attitude because that's what this team needs, especially on the offensive line.  I just hope that it's infectious and spreads to the other offensive linemen and the defensive linemen that he blocks in practice because the last things that any competitive football player wants is to (a) be shown up by a teammate, especially a rookie, or (b) to be pushed around by a rookie.

I agree we needed depth at RT and needed to get a guy to develop, but I'm so excited about what Ossai brings and how he'll be able to improve our pass rush that I'm ok with not taking Brown.  It does put us in a tricky situation next season if Reiff walks after this year, but let's hope he stays or that we can sign another quality free agent.

Posts like yours keep getting me more and more excited for the season!  I hope that training camp is open to the public so I can go down in the tunnel at PBS to meet Burrow and some of these other new guys and drop some crippled jokes! 

mike brown talked to Paul Alexander about Carman before the draft.

[BFritz21]

(05-05-2021, 04:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: mike brown talked to Paul Alexander about Carman before the draft.

According to Paul Alexander, which, I know, why would he lie?  But the moves in recent years don't smell much like Mike's cooking, or maybe he did talk to Mike but then Mike relayed the information on to Zac.

[*psychdoctor*]

Others have stated this somewhere else, but the more I see of Carman, the more he reminds me of Bobby Williams.

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2021, 05:48 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Others have stated this somewhere else, but the more I see of Carman, the more he reminds me of Bobby Williams.

I hope not,,Bobbie struggled early with the transition from tackle to guard. He was inactive his entire rookie year and didn't crack the starting line up until his 4th year in the league. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-05-2021, 02:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I loved Spencer Brown as you know SHRacer but Ossai was a major steal in the 3rd, you will see.

Yeah, everyone keeps telling me that, but a situational pass rusher vs. a right tackle that could be the most athletic in NFL history?  I am still shocked they didn't take him.  We were one of the few teams that wouldn't have to start him right away, which is why I believe he slipped as far as he did.  Oh, well.  I don't think Faalele came out this year.  Hopefully, the Bengals can snag that mammoth man next year.  

[3wt]

(05-05-2021, 02:38 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: A couple podcasts (Hear that podcast Growlin, and Locked on Bengals...both excellent) had the Bengals Director of College Scouting, MIke Potts, on for an interview recently.

I was most interested to hear his opinions on Carman, and the details about the trade back.  He referred to Carman's play at LT as "violent", and that he was often punching his opponent first, rather than retreating and catching.  It was a perfect fit for the RPO that Clemson liked to run.  Jake Liscow asked about his ability to play guard, and mentioned that he felt like Carman "played Tackle like a Guard", in terms of the phone booth space and often met his opponent with a strike.  Potts laughed and said that they felt the same way and everyone in the Bengals room was very high on him, largely because of his physicality.  

Potts also mentioned how impressed they were about Carman's desire to finish the season the last 5 games with a herniated disc in his back, rather than opting out and having the surgery to have time to prepare for the draft.  

I think Carman is our RG for a long time, and I'm very excited about that.  My only wish was instead of Ossai, they took Spencer Brown to develop at RT behind Reiff, but I am very happy about Carman.  

Yeah, while I think they got a steal with Ossai, I was a big fan of Brown and would have been ecstatic if they had taken him there.

[Essex Johnson]

I tend to agree with this assessment of Carman with the trade back and will be increasing to see how Carman performs over the the host of other Oline that they could have picked at 38. Would love to know who was 2nd on their Oline list behind Carman

"Pocketing a little extra draft capital is always nice, but choosing Carman -- NFL.com analyst Daniel Jeremiah's 96th-ranked prospect -- at No. 46 seems like quite a reach"

[Stewy]

(05-06-2021, 06:36 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I tend to agree with this assessment of Carman with the trade back and will be increasing to see how Carman performs over the  the host of other Oline that they could have picked at 38.  Would love to know who was 2nd on their Oline list behind Carman

"Pocketing a little extra draft capital is always nice, but choosing Carman -- NFL.com analyst Daniel Jeremiah's 96th-ranked prospect -- at No. 46 seems like quite a reach"

Nice cherry picking to prove your point, which of course you've been doing since last week..  Most other site had him in the 40's-60's.  

God job quoting the site that proves your point while ignoring the rest.  Your credibility = 0.

[XenoMorph]

(05-06-2021, 10:25 PM)Stewy Wrote: Nice cherry picking to prove your point, which of course you've been doing since last week..  Most other site had him in the 40's-60's.  

God job quoting the site that proves your point while ignoring the rest.  Your credibility = 0.

Walter football also had him as a LAte 3rd rounder. but projection doesnt matter in the end... Production does if he can produce like a 2nd round pick should.. Who cares where he was projected...

If he plays like Bobby Hart or worse while other guys that were available are playing at a good level. People will start to care.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-06-2021, 06:36 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I tend to agree with this assessment of Carman with the trade back and will be increasing to see how Carman performs over the  the host of other Oline that they could have picked at 38.  Would love to know who was 2nd on their Oline list behind Carman

"Pocketing a little extra draft capital is always nice, but choosing Carman -- NFL.com analyst Daniel Jeremiah's 96th-ranked prospect -- at No. 46 seems like quite a reach"

Jeremiah had him rated lower than just about every site I read.  I also think many evaluated him as a tackle prospect and not as much as a guard.  

[Sled21]

(05-07-2021, 09:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Jeremiah had him rated lower than just about every site I read.  I also think many evaluated him as a tackle prospect and not as much as a guard.  

Pretty much the Bengals said he's rated this and that as a tackle, but we want him as a guard. That changes the whole scenario. Where he struggles at Tackle, which is speed rushers coming around him, he will not have to deal with at guard, as people now have to try to come through him. That ain't happening.

[TecmoBengals]

(05-07-2021, 09:04 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Pretty much the Bengals said he's rated this and that as a tackle, but we want him as a guard. That changes the whole scenario. Where he struggles at Tackle, which is speed rushers coming around him, he will not have to deal with at guard, as people now have to try to come through him. That ain't happening.

Many of the mock experts giving grades, and then subsequently posters on this board, continue to ignore he's not going to be an OT for the Bengals. Yes, Zac said they think Carman is flexible enough to play multiple line positions, but Zac has said that about every OL drafted and those still on the roster competing for a position. Zac also stated the organization has a clear idea about how they want to use Carman and each OL drafted. He's said Carman can play guard at the pro level. It is apparent in the interviews with coaches that Carman is now an NFL guard.

If the second round pick becomes a starter at a position of need and has a good season, with the expected rookie learning curve, then the Bengals made a great pick.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2021, 09:04 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Pretty much the Bengals said he's rated this and that as a tackle, but we want him as a guard. That changes the whole scenario. Where he struggles at Tackle, which is speed rushers coming around him, he will not have to deal with at guard, as people now have to try to come through him. That ain't happening.

Exactly.  I think he is a prototypical RG for the NFL.  He may be able to play RT in a pinch, but I think it is best to plug him in at RG next to the veteran Reiff and both pass protection and run blocking should be significantly upgraded.  

[XenoMorph]

(05-07-2021, 09:04 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Pretty much the Bengals said he's rated this and that as a tackle, but we want him as a guard. That changes the whole scenario. Where he struggles at Tackle, which is speed rushers coming around him, he will not have to deal with at guard, as people now have to try to come through him. That ain't happening.

Which still leaves us needing a OT long term when there was some available.  OG Was a need but could have potentially slid Reiff inside. or found a servicable OG a little later as well.

But if Carman becomes a 3-10 year starter @ RG then it was a great pick...  

[Sled21]

(05-07-2021, 10:43 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Which still leaves us needing a OT long term when there was some available.  OG Was a need but could have potentially slid Reiff inside. or found a servicable OG a little later as well.

But if Carman becomes a 3-10 year starter @ RG then it was a great pick...  

Makes more sense to me to do what they are doing. Keep the proven NFL tackle at tackle, and place the rookie road grader beside him. He can pick up a lot playing next to Reiff for a season. And if Riley decides to move on after this year, we always have next years FA and draft to fill that need. The OT's available this year are not the only options. There will be a whole additional group next year, let alone we may be able to pick up another one from another team during cut down days.

[XenoMorph]

(05-07-2021, 11:01 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Makes more sense to me to do what they are doing. Keep the proven NFL tackle at tackle, and place the rookie road grader beside him. He can pick up a lot playing next to Reiff for a season. And if Riley decides to move on after this year, we always have next years FA and draft to fill that need. The OT's available this year are not the only options. There will be a whole additional group next year, let alone we may be able to pick up another one from another team during cut down days.

Right but if either of our OTs miss time.... We are still in a bad spot with depth

[*ochocincos*]

(05-05-2021, 03:37 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm glad that we're finally listening to our scouting department, even if it is tiny, instead of Mike Brown making uneducated decisions because (1) he thought he was as football smart as his old man and (2) he was too cheap to pay for any real scouting.

You forgot also too cheap to pay for better OL talent in FA.
If the Bengals had done better about acquiring OL in FA, we wouldn't have to worry so much about Carman stepping in immediately to make a contribution.

[Sled21]

(05-07-2021, 12:25 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Right but if either of our OTs miss time.... We are still in a bad spot with depth

I have almost no doubt he can play effectively at Guard or Tackle. I'm sure Dabo Sweeney had no shortage of OT's from across the nation that would have loved to transfer in and block for Lawrence, just for the exposure, yet Sweeney was content to stick with Carmen protecting Lawrence.  Not sure if this has been posted, but it's a nice breakdown, and I suspect he will be a force at the RG spot. 

Quality Film Breakdown of Cincinnati Bengals Second Round Pick Jackson Carman - Sports Illustrated Cincinnati Bengals News, Analysis and More

[Bengal80]

Analyst projections are not gospel and less accurate and more opinion this year because of the limited information available. I doubt that any NFL team uses or reads them. In the analyst table referenced earlier showing Carmen was a late 3rd round early 4th pick, he got only 8 out of 21 rounds right. 8 were off by 1 round, 2 including Carmen by 1 1/2 rounds, 3 by 3 rounds and 1 by 4 rounds. The performance would back up the doubt most have in analyst competence.