(05-31-2021, 05:41 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: A lot of truths in this^^^ imo the jury is still out for me on Mixon at least the way he is being hyped, and not just around here. Imo he’s a physical specimen with all the potential in the world but I need to see it. And to me it’s more than just him being healthy. That’s where it starts tho
Actually, we've seen plenty of what Joe is capable of as an NFL RB, and it's pretty darn good, both as a ball carrier and receiving from the backfield. I just find it quite coincidental that those good games from Joe happened to occur on the same days that the OL was able to move some people off the ball and open some holes..
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
Oh c'mon..Everyone knows Zac is in line to win the Nobel prize for offensive innovation.. or maybe for standing there with his finger in his ear, but he's in line.. Long line, but a line..
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.
(05-30-2021, 08:26 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Brat was very predictable. One thing I like about ZT is I have no idea what the play call is going to be. I hope he keeps that up and remains unpredictable. He needs some experience calling plays and playing with the lead and winning. Hopefully he picks that part up fast.
I feel the same way. Watching the Marvin Lewis era I felt I could pick the plays before every snap. I think ZT offense is very unpredictable.
I am hoping it will be even more exciting with JaMarr Chase and JB being a second year QB.
(05-31-2021, 06:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, we've seen plenty of what Joe is capable of as an NFL RB, and it's pretty darn good, both as a ball carrier and receiving from the backfield. I just find it quite coincidental that those good games from Joe happened to occur on the same days that the OL was able to move some people off the ball and open some holes..
He had just one good game last year (Jax) and our rushing attack was just a mess last year. The run blocking might be just as important as the pass blocking this year in keeping Burrow healthy. If he has to throw it 40+ times every game because we can't run again, that's probably a real bad sign for the whole damn works.
"Mixon is great, but those guys can't block worth a sh*&!" is what went through my mind most of last year.
"Our offensive line is going to surprise a lot of people" - Mike Brown (7-26-21)
(05-31-2021, 10:38 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I feel the same way. Watching the Marvin Lewis era I felt I could pick the plays before every snap. I think ZT offense is very unpredictable.
I am hoping it will be even more exciting with JaMarr Chase and JB being a second year QB.
Is unpredictability overrated? Everyone knows Mahommes is going to throw to Kelce or Hill and everyone knows Brady is looking for Gronk in the endzone in the SB. How unpredictable can ZT even be when Burrow attempts 40+ passes per game?
Actually, now that I think about it "unpredictable" sounds more like the "too cute" complaints we threw at Hue Jackson back when our offense was still good. We all know Burrow is going to throw the ball to Chase...don't confuse the defense, just beat 'em.
(06-01-2021, 12:06 AM)sandwedge Wrote: According to teamrankings.com, the Bengals were middle of the pack, 17th in rushing attempts last season at 26 per game.
When I have time I will see where we ranked before Joe was injured. I bet is was much lower.
Zac came from a run-heavy offense with the Rams (8th in rush attempts, 14th in pass). Zac was the head coach when we gave Gio that big contract extension. I think that was because Taylor had seen Gurley break down under too big of a load in a run heavy offense. I really expected us to run the ball more than we did. The second half of '19 we ran the ball well (and it was not because of weaker competition).
But last year it looked like Taylor was all in on a Joe Burrow pass heavy offense. We threw a lot because we were behind, but even at the beginning of games when it was still close we did not even seem to try to establish a run threat.
To me how much we run the ball is the biggest question for 2021. I know Joe would love to throw it 50 times a game, but Zac should be the one making that call. A good run game makes the passing game so much better. I am a big Boomer Esiason fan. He was a great QB. But I don't know if he ever reaches league MVP level without a running game that ranked first in yards, tds, and yards per carry. Boomer only attempted 388 passes (14th in the league) and did not lead the league in either passing yards or tds. But that running game opened up everything. Boomer was the king of the empty-hand play-action fake, but play-action is not as effective if you don't have a serious running game.
I know good passing teams put up more points, but to me there is nothing more satisfying than watching your team just run over the opponent and grind them up.
(06-01-2021, 11:49 AM)Tzintzinatty Kid Wrote: Unfortunately he'd already forgotten it by the time he arrived here.
Brat was not that bad.
He produced the #13 scoring offense in the league with Kitna starting every game in '03. The next 4 year he had Palmer and finished 10th, 4th, 8th, and 11th. Each of his last two seasons here the offense ranked 22nd in scoring. That is much better than what Taylor has produced (29th and 30th).
Before he came here Bob was OC for two top 10 scoring offenses in Seattle ('95, '97).
(05-30-2021, 12:32 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Okay I'm not trying to be super negative or anything. Just curious if anyone has thought about how Taylor seems to be of the same philosophy that Bratkowski was as in that to have real success it has to be all about the passing game and that the running game is only a side note. I believe Bratkowski was quoted as saying about the running game that it's hard to win with 3yds and a cloud of dust.
Do you think we'll have a focus on the running game this year with what looks like at least on paper one of the best WR trio's in the league?
Also I think it will be another interesting thing to watch week 1. Do we come out with a emphasis on the running game with QB possibly seeing his first live action after knee surgery? What's the over under on pass attempts 40?
Also I know it's been asked already but it was asked as "how good does Taylor have to be to keep" but I think with already having the built in excuse of Burrow coming off injury the question might be how bad does Taylor need to be before we show him the door? For me this team needs to be atleast .500 and more importantly I need to see at least an adjustment to the offense philosophy. The past 2 seasons we just hand the ball to the Quarterback and say okay be a top 5 QB in the league and we'll win games. We need a more balanced attack.
I think the running game will be a major emphasis this season. Build off the wins last season where we ran the ball.
The Steelers, Titans and Jags games are what Taylor needs to build off of and with the added pieces to the OL and Mixon back
healthy I think we will be muchly improved this year in this aspect as well as in protection with Reiff and Carman added and Spain
and XSF having a full Offseason. Trey Hill and D'Ante Smith are much better depth as well.
Run the ball and go Play Action the way the Titans have been doing it as of late. Chase as our deep threat will now open up the
middle of the field for Boyd, Tee and the TE's to feast. Also use Mixon more in the passing game as an extension of the running
game to take pressure off of Burrow.
(06-01-2021, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When I have time I will see where we ranked before Joe was injured. I bet is was much lower.
Zac came from a run-heavy offense with the Rams (8th in rush attempts, 14th in pass). Zac was the head coach when we gave Gio that big contract extension. I think that was because Taylor had seen Gurley break down under too big of a load in a run heavy offense. I really expected us to run the ball more than we did. The second half of '19 we ran the ball well (and it was not because of weaker competition).
But last year it looked like Taylor was all in on a Joe Burrow pass heavy offense. We threw a lot because we were behind, but even at the beginning of games when it was still close we did not even seem to try to establish a run threat.
To me how much we run the ball is the biggest question for 2021. I know Joe would love to throw it 50 times a game, but Zac should be the one making that call. A good run game makes the passing game so much better. I am a big Boomer Esiason fan. He was a great QB. But I don't know if he ever reaches league MVP level without a running game that ranked first in yards, tds, and yards per carry. Boomer only attempted 388 passes (14th in the league) and did not lead the league in either passing yards or tds. But that running game opened up everything. Boomer was the king of the empty-hand play-action fake, but play-action is not as effective if you don't have a serious running game.
I know good passing teams put up more points, but to me there is nothing more satisfying than watching your team just run over the opponent and grind them up.
NSFW
I'll be curious where they ranked before Mixon got hurt. I looked up individual game stats when someone posted about Taylor saying Mixon was top 5 in carries before he got hurt and he did have alot of carries. But the problem was excluding the Jax game he was averaging 2.9 ypc. and that's part of my concern with Taylor is not so much that he won't run the ball initially. It's that how urgently he'll address the issue if we're not running the ball efficiently which we'll just cause us to have to pass later in games.
But maybe it's a non issue since Pollack was here for Mixon's most productive year atleast ypc year. But I agree if we get a good rushing attack going that will only help the passing which will in turn help the running game.
(06-01-2021, 05:35 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'll be curious where they ranked before Mixon got hurt. I looked up individual game stats when someone posted about Taylor saying Mixon was top 5 in carries before he got hurt and he did have alot of carries. But the problem was excluding the Jax game he was averaging 2.9 ypc. and that's part of my concern with Taylor is not so much that he won't run the ball initially. It's that how urgently he'll address the issue if we're not running the ball efficiently which we'll just cause us to have to pass later in games.
But maybe it's a non issue since Pollack was here for Mixon's most productive year atleast ypc year. But I agree if we get a good rushing attack going that will only help the passing which will in turn help the running game.
I rip this coaching staff a lot when they do things wrong. But I have also given them credit when they do something right.
Last year at this time I was talking about the one thing that gave me hope for our coaches going forward. . . the fact that they had fixed the running game midseason. The improvement was incredible. Even though we played some weak run defenses the second half in the first half even the bad run defenses were shutting us down. And even though the Browns had a weak run defense we still ran for more yards against them in both of our games than all but two of their other opponents.
(05-30-2021, 08:26 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Brat was very predictable. One thing I like about ZT is I have no idea what the play call is going to be. I hope he keeps that up and remains unpredictable. He needs some experience calling plays and playing with the lead and winning. Hopefully he picks that part up fast.
Agreed on all counts there. And the unpredictability should yield better results with more weapons/more time with Burrow being with the team.
(06-01-2021, 06:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I rip this coaching staff a lot when they do things wrong. But I have also given them credit when they do something right.
Last year at this time I was talking about the one thing that gave me hope for our coaches going forward. . . the fact that they had fixed the running game midseason. The improvement was incredible. Even though we played some weak run defenses the second half in the first half even the bad run defenses were shutting us down. And even though the Browns had a weak run defense we still ran for more yards against them in both of our games than all but two of their other opponents.
I agree the 2nd half of the 2019 season did give me hope. The only thing I didn't like about it was the fact it took so long to get figured out because I thought Taylor was handed the blueprint for running with Mixon from Lewis. The last year and a half of Marvin's tenure Mixon was very consistent. It really seems as though Mixon runs best behind a certain blocking scheme maybe one that this last OL coach didn't like to run.
(06-01-2021, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When I have time I will see where we ranked before Joe was injured. I bet is was much lower.
Zac came from a run-heavy offense with the Rams (8th in rush attempts, 14th in pass). Zac was the head coach when we gave Gio that big contract extension. I think that was because Taylor had seen Gurley break down under too big of a load in a run heavy offense. I really expected us to run the ball more than we did. The second half of '19 we ran the ball well (and it was not because of weaker competition).
But last year it looked like Taylor was all in on a Joe Burrow pass heavy offense. We threw a lot because we were behind, but even at the beginning of games when it was still close we did not even seem to try to establish a run threat.
To me how much we run the ball is the biggest question for 2021. I know Joe would love to throw it 50 times a game, but Zac should be the one making that call. A good run game makes the passing game so much better. I am a big Boomer Esiason fan. He was a great QB. But I don't know if he ever reaches league MVP level without a running game that ranked first in yards, tds, and yards per carry. Boomer only attempted 388 passes (14th in the league) and did not lead the league in either passing yards or tds. But that running game opened up everything. Boomer was the king of the empty-hand play-action fake, but play-action is not as effective if you don't have a serious running game.
I know good passing teams put up more points, but to me there is nothing more satisfying than watching your team just run over the opponent and grind them up.
NSFW
I don't know about rankings, but raw stats looked like this; 238 rushes after 9 games for a 26 att per game and 371 pass attempts after 9 games for a 41 att per game.
Five of those games were within 8 attemps from being 50/50 and two of them were within 2 attempts.
Four of those games were 40+ pass attempts with a high of 61.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(06-01-2021, 12:38 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Is unpredictability overrated? Everyone knows Mahommes is going to throw to Kelce or Hill and everyone knows Brady is looking for Gronk in the endzone in the SB. How unpredictable can ZT even be when Burrow attempts 40+ passes per game?
Actually, now that I think about it "unpredictable" sounds more like the "too cute" complaints we threw at Hue Jackson back when our offense was still good. We all know Burrow is going to throw the ball to Chase...don't confuse the defense, just beat 'em.
Unpredictable to me is not having a pattern to your play calling. I always hated when we would bring GIO in and everyone knew it would be a screen to Gio. How about 3rd and 2 and Dalton hikes and walks back to Mixon to hand him the ball so he can then run straight ahead for a yard or no gain. The ML offense had no imagination to it. I think ZT offense is very creative.
(06-01-2021, 09:26 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Unpredictable to me is not having a pattern to your play calling. I always hated when we would bring GIO in and everyone knew it would be a screen to Gio. How about 3rd and 2 and Dalton hikes and walks back to Mixon to hand him the ball so he can then run straight ahead for a yard or no gain. The ML offense had no imagination to it. I think ZT offense is very creative.
4th and long shotgun snap to Dalton and have him run for it. Does anyone remember that I believe it was against the Cards in 2019. I don't remember 4th down and what the yardage was it probably was only 4 yards or so. But expecting Dalton to run for it worked out about as comically bad as you would think. That was the wrong kind of creativity from ZT.
(05-30-2021, 08:26 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Brat was very predictable. One thing I like about ZT is I have no idea what the play call is going to be. I hope he keeps that up and remains unpredictable. He needs some experience calling plays and playing with the lead and winning. Hopefully he picks that part up fast.
Agree
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