PFF CB Rankings

[Murdock2420]

Since we had threads earlier about the OL rankings figured I'd toss this one out as it has a current and former Bengal player on the list.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-rankings-the-32-best-outside-cornerbacks-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

Checking in at the #9 CB in the league:

WILLIAM JACKSON III, WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM
Washington possessed one of the better defenses in the NFL in 2020; Jackson’s addition should only improve it, giving them a No. 1 cornerback who will allow them to play more man coverage if they desire. Jackson burst onto the scene with a 90.4 coverage grade in his first season of action back in 2017. He allowed just 30 receiving yards on 359 coverage snaps across his final 11 games that season.

Jackson hasn’t quite reached those lofty heights in the three years since, but he is coming off his best statistical season since 2017, with just 52% of the passes into his coverage being completed in 2020.


And checking in at #31

TRAE WAYNES, CINCINNATI BENGALS
The Bengals handed out two big contracts on the defensive side of the ball last offseason. One was to Waynes, and the other was to interior defensive lineman D.J. Reader, yet neither made an impact last season due to injury. Waynes’ three-year, $42 million contract was likely an overpay, but he does profile as a quality starting option. He has been one of the best run defenders (88.5 run-defense grade in five seasons with the Vikings) at the position since entering the league in 2015.



I know there wasn't too many people sad to see WJII leave, and it'll be interesting to see if he thrives in a new scheme.

[GreenCornBengal]

To me, Waynes gets a TBD... IMO isn’t as low as #31, but gets knocked for missing 2020... he’s prob in the low twenties to teens... I’m excited to see what he looks like on this defense.

[Dr.Z]

Jackson absolutely should thrive in Washington. It is one of the most corner-friendly situations in the league.

[Au165]

I was having a discussion with someone else yesterday about PFF's lists. While I like what they do overall, these lists are odd as they don't actually value their actual scores from last year all that much. They are more projections, not based on any real analytical tools, but rather the writer's opinions which is a bit off for a site built around stats. They are sitting in this weird middle ground of statistics and commentary and I am not really a fan of it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-02-2021, 05:47 AM)Dr.Z Wrote: Jackson absolutely should thrive in Washington.   It is one of the most corner-friendly situations in the league.

This.  Pretty impressive that he had such a low completion % last year given the complete lack of pass rush.  I just wonder about the culture at WFT.  Why do their veterans keep wanting out of there?  I think their coach is "going young" and Jackson turns 29 in Oct.  You are correct, though, if I am a CB, I would much rather play with that front four than pretty much anywhere in the league.  And, frankly, of late the QB play in that division sucks ass.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-02-2021, 08:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: I was having a discussion with someone else yesterday about PFF's lists. While I like what they do overall, these lists are odd as they don't actually value their actual scores from last year all that much. They are more projections, not based on any real analytical tools, but rather the writer's opinions which is a bit off for a site built around stats. They are sitting in this weird middle ground of statistics and commentary and I am not really a fan of it.

I get it, but it is still the only thing remotely close to a measuring stick out there.  The list had its question marks for sure.  How does Ward finish 9th when they say he is 98th percentile in man coverage?  That dude is downright lethal.  Having Richard Sherman even on the list is laughable, let alone at #11.

That is the one big thing about PFF that I criticize.  They don't take in to account the quality of the competition.  You think a CB doesn't have an easier job in last year's NFC LEAST going against Wentz/Hurts, Haskins/Smith, Dalton, or Daniel Jones in comparison to playing in the AFC North and facing Piggy, Jackson, Baker, and Burrow?  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Not sure I would take WJ3 at #9, but it will be interesting to see if he thrives elsewhere, realizing that 2017 potential we all got to see.

(Still probably has terrible ball skills regardless if I had to bet money.)

[Au165]

(06-02-2021, 11:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get it, but it is still the only thing remotely close to a measuring stick out there.  The list had its question marks for sure.  How does Ward finish 9th when they say he is 98th percentile in man coverage?  That dude is downright lethal.  Having Richard Sherman even on the list is laughable, let alone at #11.

That is the one big thing about PFF that I criticize.  They don't take in to account the quality of the competition.  You think a CB doesn't have an easier job in last year's NFC LEAST going against Wentz/Hurts, Haskins/Smith, Dalton, or Daniel Jones in comparison to playing in the AFC North and facing Piggy, Jackson, Baker, and Burrow?  

Right, my complaint is more their lists should be based on statistics rather than a random dude's opinion if that is the business (stats) they are in. If they want to project 2021 production then use a metric that takes into account their team, or new teams', projected efficiency against their schedule and other metrics off their scores last year and take subjectivity out of it. Where this stuff bothers me is people point to this list as a "PFF" list but in reality, they aren't using PFF data to justify it in a coherent way but rather use a guy's opinion and throw a couple of random stats in there to attempt to justify it. 

[*ochocincos*]

(06-01-2021, 11:50 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: To me, Waynes gets a TBD... IMO isn’t as low as #31, but gets knocked for missing 2020... he’s prob in the low twenties to teens... I’m excited to see what he looks like on this defense.

We'll see how good Waynes fits in with Anarumo's defense, but I think you're giving him too much optimism.
Waynes had a 65.1 PFF score in 2019, his last season he played.
If he had the same score last year, he'd have been ranked 48th best CB in the NFL.

He'll very likely need to have a score of 70+ if he hopes to crack the Top 25.
What makes me really skeptical on Waynes is that the best score he's ever had was in 2017 when he had a 70.6. That score was boosted by his run defense.
He's never had a score of 70+ in coverage.

[motoarch]

(06-02-2021, 08:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: I was having a discussion with someone else yesterday about PFF's lists. While I like what they do overall, these lists are odd as they don't actually value their actual scores from last year all that much. They are more projections, not based on any real analytical tools, but rather the writer's opinions which is a bit off for a site built around stats. They are sitting in this weird middle ground of statistics and commentary and I am not really a fan of it.

Unless they say something you agree with or fits your narrative right?

[Au165]

(06-02-2021, 12:36 PM)motoarch Wrote: Unless they say something you agree with or fits your narrative right?

Not at all. I am about objective analytical data and these lists like some of their other recent content have been very subjective which really wasn't the point of the service, at least at its inception. I still like their data and statistics but their commentary is becoming more pervasive and it feels like it's shifting because that kind of content gets more traffic.

Like I mentioned above, I'd like to see these lists approached using some sort of data modeling to project risers and fallers based on their massive amounts of data they have.

[XenoMorph]

(06-01-2021, 11:35 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Since we had threads earlier about the OL rankings figured I'd toss this one out as it has a current and former Bengal player on the list.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-rankings-the-32-best-outside-cornerbacks-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

Checking in at the #9 CB in the league:

WILLIAM JACKSON III, WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM
Washington possessed one of the better defenses in the NFL in 2020; Jackson’s addition should only improve it, giving them a No. 1 cornerback who will allow them to play more man coverage if they desire. Jackson burst onto the scene with a 90.4 coverage grade in his first season of action back in 2017. He allowed just 30 receiving yards on 359 coverage snaps across his final 11 games that season.

Jackson hasn’t quite reached those lofty heights in the three years since, but he is coming off his best statistical season since 2017, with just 52% of the passes into his coverage being completed in 2020.


And checking in at #31

TRAE WAYNES, CINCINNATI BENGALS
The Bengals handed out two big contracts on the defensive side of the ball last offseason. One was to Waynes, and the other was to interior defensive lineman D.J. Reader, yet neither made an impact last season due to injury. Waynes’ three-year, $42 million contract was likely an overpay, but he does profile as a quality starting option. He has been one of the best run defenders (88.5 run-defense grade in five seasons with the Vikings) at the position since entering the league in 2015.



I know there wasn't too many people sad to see WJII leave, and it'll be interesting to see if he thrives in a new scheme.

seems jackson fit the current DC's scheme just fine

[Murdock2420]

(06-02-2021, 01:24 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: seems jackson fit the current DC's scheme just fine

I really will be interested to see if he excels in Washington.

Then you have to ask was it coaching or lack of effort or both. 

[Sled21]

Jackson is probably #9 because of his exceptional tackling skills, as highlighted here......

[fredtoast]

(06-02-2021, 11:25 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Then you have to ask was it coaching or lack of effort or both. 

That got him a contract worth $15 million a year?

[grampahol]

I think if the Bengals have any significant injuries at the CB position this year they're in a world of hurt. Once you get beyond the first 3 names of starters there's a HUGE drop-off in talent. I'm guessing next year they'll be drafting CBs hard and heavy..or going FA's..

[Murdock2420]

(06-03-2021, 08:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That got him a contract worth $15 million a year?

According to most people on here he was over paid.

I think he was under appreciated here honestly 

[Murdock2420]

(06-03-2021, 12:00 PM)grampahol Wrote: I think if the Bengals have any significant injuries at the CB position this year they're in a world of hurt. Once you get beyond the first 3 names of starters there's a HUGE drop-off in talent. I'm guessing next year they'll be drafting CBs hard and heavy..or going FA's..

They should be a little better off this year than last.

After the starting 3 you have Phillips, Ricardo Allen and Eli Apple.

Allen is listed as a safety but has had NFL success as a nickel CB. Apple isn't as good as he once was but again, he is worlds better than the guys the Bengals ran out there in week 17 last season.

The DB room is actually one of the few groups that has some depth.

[Luvnit2]

Jackson may be a better cover corner, but her also is soft, a wimp taking on rb's and TE's. I guess PFF ignores his missed tackles or whiffs on purpose because he is soft.

[Murdock2420]

(06-04-2021, 12:39 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Jackson may be a better cover corner, but her also is soft, a wimp taking on rb's and TE's. I guess PFF ignores his missed tackles or whiffs on purpose because he is soft.

As the league continues to trend more and more to a pass first league, I would think that being a high end coverage guy would be more beneficial then a strong run support type of guy.