Jonah speaks on Pollack

[WeezyBengal]

(06-05-2021, 05:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Several times, over the years, I have asserted that I believe that most guys that make it to the NFL have the raw physical talent to make it.  Aside from the few genetic anomalies, what separates most of the players that continue on to long and productive careers (injuries notwithstanding) from the ones that flash and fall off, is coaching.  Hopefully for our OL room, Frank Pollack is that Coach that makes the difference in players developing into talented, productive professionals, as opposed to falling off into obscurity.

I would add a "desire to get better" to this list as well. Some guys just don't have the competitive want and desire to get better and be the best. 

Not sure where Michael Jordan ranks there, but it's been a problem with some of our offensive lineman in the past.

[sandwedge]

(06-07-2021, 03:19 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I would add a "desire to get better" to this list as well. Some guys just don't have the competitive want and desire to get better and be the best. 

Not sure where Michael Jordan ranks there, but it's been a problem with some of our offensive lineman in the past.

He did reach out to Willie for help, so there is hope.

[Dr.Z]

I'm definitely not what you would consider a Zac Taylor advocate, but I am not 100 percent convinced he's as bad as some say either. My opinion will hinge heavily on the upcoming season, but the Jim Turner hiring to replace Pollock weighs pretty heavily on the critical side of my personal evaluation of him.

I'm also very critical of the " two-handed punch" technique and favor an "independent hands" technique in today's NFL. The two-handed punch can look fantastic on certain plays (especially when utilized by relatively large strong linemen), but it conversely looks terrible on the whiffs. It's basically a high risk, high reward technique that gets exposed with counter technique and athleticism from opposing pass rushers. It is much more effective (and prevalent) in high school and it works a lot in NCAA as well (it's one thing I've noticed Carmen doing on tape, although I am optimistic about him long-term) because you see much more bullrush at those levels. Mitchell Schwartz's tape is some of the best "independent hand" technique I've seen. Whitworth is also pretty amazing at it. I'd liken the two-handed punch to the boxer Deontay Wilder, who pretty much goes for the knockout punch and looks great when he obliterates you and lands, but gets outboxed conversely by Tyson Fury (analogizing him w/ independent hand here) w/ a combination of some power and skillful technique. Sorry for the boxing analogy, as I've always been around this often frustrating sport.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-06-2021, 09:44 PM)GodFather Wrote:   Ok that cracked me the F'k up!

(06-07-2021, 01:21 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: While this isn't surprising since basically players will always hype up new coaches, there's been a lot of discussion on how bad Turner really was. Willie was on Twitter a few weeks ago talking about the two-hand punch technique that Turner was teaching. He basically said that it was awful. Then former player Scott Kooistra and Paul Alexander chimed in and mentioned that no intelligent OL coach would teach that technique.

After everything that has come out about Turner, I am shocked that this guy continues to find work.

Yeah, that is just dumb honestly by Turner. I don't get it either, I don't know what he was thinking. A two-hand punch technique
just puts the OL in a bad position and it sure isn't a good run blocking technique either. Pollack will have this OL playing much 
better this year bet on it. Love how Burrow has just been loving him being here, this says a lot when your young leader says 
these things.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-07-2021, 04:47 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: I'm definitely not what you would consider a Zac Taylor advocate, but I am not 100 percent convinced he's as bad as some say either.  My opinion will hinge heavily on the upcoming season, but the Jim Turner hiring to replace Pollock weighs pretty heavily on the critical side of my personal evaluation of him.  

I'm also very critical of the " two-handed punch" technique and favor an "independent hands" technique in today's NFL.   The two-handed punch can look fantastic on certain plays (especially when utilized by relatively large strong linemen), but it conversely looks terrible on the whiffs.  It's basically a high risk, high reward technique that gets exposed with counter technique and athleticism from opposing pass rushers.  It is much more effective (and prevalent) in high school and it works a lot in NCAA as well (it's one thing I've noticed Carmen doing on tape, although I am optimistic about him long-term) because you see much more bullrush at those levels.   Mitchell Schwartz's tape is some of the best "independent hand" technique I've seen.  Whitworth is also pretty amazing at it.    I'd liken the two-handed punch to the boxer Deontay Wilder, who pretty much goes for the knockout punch and looks great when he obliterates you and lands, but gets outboxed conversely by Tyson Fury (analogizing him w/ independent hand here)  w/ a combination of some power and skillful technique.  Sorry for the boxing analogy, as I've always been around this often frustrating sport.

Nice post Dr.Z as usual. I get your boxing analogy honestly and yes an independent hand technique is much better as it is 
not such a gamble. You have multiple ways to block, it isn't all in or you get beat type of blocking like the two handed punch. 
Sometimes it works like you said but it opens you up and is a high risk technique.

[bengals67]

(06-05-2021, 05:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Several times, over the years, I have asserted that I believe that most guys that make it to the NFL have the raw physical talent to make it.  Aside from the few genetic anomalies, what separates most of the players that continue on to long and productive careers (injuries notwithstanding) from the ones that flash and fall off, is coaching.  Hopefully for our OL room, Frank Pollack is that Coach that makes the difference in players developing into talented, productive professionals, as opposed to falling off into obscurity.

Sunset- what you say here completely echoes what my close friend who played guard for the Eagles for 8 years with Jaws as the QB has always told me.

He says the "talent" level for all NFL teams is very close and that the difference is : the entire organization first;  and coaching second ( which is part of organization)

[bengals67]

(06-07-2021, 04:47 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: I'm definitely not what you would consider a Zac Taylor advocate, but I am not 100 percent convinced he's as bad as some say either.  My opinion will hinge heavily on the upcoming season, but the Jim Turner hiring to replace Pollock weighs pretty heavily on the critical side of my personal evaluation of him.  

I'm also very critical of the " two-handed punch" technique and favor an "independent hands" technique in today's NFL.   The two-handed punch can look fantastic on certain plays (especially when utilized by relatively large strong linemen), but it conversely looks terrible on the whiffs.  It's basically a high risk, high reward technique that gets exposed with counter technique and athleticism from opposing pass rushers.  It is much more effective (and prevalent) in high school and it works a lot in NCAA as well (it's one thing I've noticed Carmen doing on tape, although I am optimistic about him long-term) because you see much more bullrush at those levels.   Mitchell Schwartz's tape is some of the best "independent hand" technique I've seen.  Whitworth is also pretty amazing at it.    I'd liken the two-handed punch to the boxer Deontay Wilder, who pretty much goes for the knockout punch and looks great when he obliterates you and lands, but gets outboxed conversely by Tyson Fury (analogizing him w/ independent hand here)  w/ a combination of some power and skillful technique.  Sorry for the boxing analogy, as I've always been around this often frustrating sport.

 This is a brilliant insight that is way above my knowledge.

I'm not sold on Taylor but young people learn from mistakes. He clearly made one in picking Turner. I'm thinking they had a personal relationship that clouded his judgment?