Thoughts on contract extensions.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-08-2021, 05:20 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: And Johnson was overpaid regardless.  I'd say he and hubbard are equally effective.  Wouldn't want big money in either of them.  

If you try real hard, you just might be able to backpeddal quicker than a badger stumbling into a bear's den. 

Anyway, Hubbard is going to get paid.  He's worth significant money.  There's no way that attempting to minimize his worth with pointless rationalizations is going to change the fact that he's a damn good football player.  

So, with that said, I think that he's currently looking at about $9M/per in extension, as the cap is slated to be toward $228M next season.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-08-2021, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If you try real hard, you just might be able to backpeddal quicker than a badger stumbling into a bear's den. 

Anyway, Hubbard is going to get paid.  He's worth significant money.  There's no way that attempting to minimize his worth with pointless rationalizations is going to change the fact that he's a damn good football player.  

So, with that said, I think that he's currently looking at about $9M/per in extension, as the cap is slated to be toward $228M next season.

Agree, Hubbard is a great run stopper unlike MJ, don't even understand the comparison. Hubbard has great bend unlike the 
walking tree and I bet Hubbard ups his pass rush game big time this offseason like he did his run stopping last year. Hoping 
we can get both Bates and Hubbard extended soon, this would be ideal before Hubbard breaks out in the sack department 
this season.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-08-2021, 08:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree, Hubbard is a great run stopper unlike MJ, don't even understand the comparison. Hubbard has great bend unlike the 
walking tree and I bet Hubbard ups his pass rush game big time this offseason like he did his run stopping last year. Hoping 
we can get both Bates and Hubbard extended soon, this would be ideal before Hubbard breaks out in the sack department 
this season.

Hubbard is a complete football player.  He's worth good money.  Just because he had a low sack season, does not mean that he can't rush the passer.  If you remember our defense last season, pretty much nobody was getting to the passer.  

I totally agree on making Jesse Bates a top 5 paid Safety in the NFL, first and foremost.  Then, give Hubbard a respectable deal that he can rest easy on.

[Big_Ern]

(06-08-2021, 08:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hubbard is a complete football player.  He's worth good money.  Just because he had a low sack season, does not mean that he can't rush the passer.  If you remember our defense last season, pretty much nobody was getting to the passer.  

I totally agree on making Jesse Bates a top 5 paid Safety in the NFL, first and foremost.  Then, give Hubbard a respectable deal that he can rest easy on.

You mean low sack career 

[Big_Ern]

(06-08-2021, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If you try real hard, you just might be able to backpeddal quicker than a badger stumbling into a bear's den. 

Anyway, Hubbard is going to get paid.  He's worth significant money.  There's no way that attempting to minimize his worth with pointless rationalizations is going to change the fact that he's a damn good football player.  

So, with that said, I think that he's currently looking at about $9M/per in extension, as the cap is slated to be toward $228M next season.

I'm not backpedaling. He is a fine football player. I wouldn't overpay for him. 9 is too high and he isn't getting that with the deal they gave Hendrickson. Just like they didn't sign both Joseph/Leon, wj3/Wayans, MJ/Dunlap until mj got cut for his bad deal where the bucs reached. 

[SunsetBengal]

(06-08-2021, 09:56 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: I'm not backpedaling. He is a fine football player. I wouldn't overpay for him. 9 is too high and he isn't getting that with the deal they gave Hendrickson. Just like they didn't sign both Joseph/Leon, wj3/Wayans, MJ/Dunlap until mj got cut for his bad deal where the bucs reached. 

I'll bet you that they pay him more than you think they will.  Why?  The NFL is different today, than it was a few years back.  A team needs DEs more than they need a pair of top CBs these days.  As the style of the game changes, so does the personnel priorities and their positional worth.

[Big_Ern]

(06-08-2021, 10:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'll bet you that they pay him more than you think they will.  Why?  The NFL is different today, than it was a few years back.  A team needs DEs more than they need a pair of top CBs these days.  As the style of the game changes, so does the personnel priorities and their positional worth.

They very well may.  I like him on the team, but not at 7-9M

and there is a reason they went DE heavy in this draft

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2021, 09:53 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: You mean low sack career 

No he doesn't.  Hibbard had 14.5 sacks in just 1350 snaps played in '18 and '19.  That is a very good ratio, especially for a guy who was not just playing passing downs.

(06-08-2021, 12:25 PM)Big_Ern Wrote:  You can find that in rounds 3-6 if you start them 13 games like Sam did.  

That is a funny claim because only two players from the entire 2018 draft have more sacks than Hubbard and neither of them was taken in rounds 3-6.

You just need to educate yourself more on Hubbards entire career and what other comparable players are getting paid.

[Wes Mantooth]

No brainer to get them both extended this year. Bates is an asbolute must. They have plenty of cap room (18-21 mil depending on where you look) and that's before any veteran cuts in training camp.

Knowing the Bengals, they'll keep some of this to cover potential injury settlements, bonuses and for rollover. But it still leaves room to get both of these guys new deals (base salary increase won't start until 2022) and to front load a portion of each signing bonus.

Just spitballing, but I'm guessing Bates is looking at something in 13-15 mil range, and Hubbard is looking at the 7-10 mil range.

[Big_Ern]

(06-09-2021, 09:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No he doesn't.  Hibbard had 14.5 sacks in just 1350 snaps played in '18 and '19.  That is a very good ratio, especially for a guy who was not just playing passing downs.




That is a funny claim because only two players from the entire 2018 draft have more sacks than Hubbard and neither of them was taken in rounds 3-6.

You just need to educate yourself more on Hubbards entire career and what other comparable players are getting paid.

Wow. If only the coaches knew his sack ratio and played him more. Guess he'd be all pro. 

[WeezyBengal]

My biggest question is...why have we sat on our hands so long when it comes to re-signing guys? I mean who have we locked up recently other than Mixon?

I'm getting tired of waiting until the last minute to sign our best players, letting them hit FA, and then eventually seeing them walk. Take care of it, Bengals.

[fredtoast]

(06-09-2021, 10:12 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Wow. If only the coaches knew his sack ratio and played him more. Guess he'd be all pro. 

Uh, no, you still don't get it.

Last year it was hard for even the best pass rushers in the league, like Carl Lawson, to get a lot of sacks with the Bengals because we had scrubs at DT and CB.  Hubbard did not get a lot of sacks because the opposing QB could usually step up in the pocket to avoid the rush or else dump the ball off to a wide open receiver.

See, doesn't that make more sense than your theory that Hubbard somehow, for no reason at all, just forgot how to rush the passer before last season

[XenoMorph]

(06-09-2021, 10:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no, you still don't get it.

Last year it was hard for even the best pass rushers in the league, like Carl Lawson, to get a lot of sacks with the Bengals because we had scrubs at DT and CB.  Hubbard did not get a lot of sacks because the opposing QB could usually step up in the pocket to avoid the rush or else dump the ball off to a wide open receiver.

See, doesn't that make more sense than your theory that Hubbard somehow, for no reason at all, just forgot how to rush the passer before last season

this is why you need a TEAM and not 1 or 2 big names.

[fredtoast]

(06-09-2021, 10:51 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: My biggest question is...why have we sat on our hands so long when it comes to re-signing guys? I mean who have we locked up recently other than Mixon?

I'm getting tired of waiting until the last minute to sign our best players, letting them hit FA, and then eventually seeing them walk. Take care of it, Bengals.

Bengals have almost always waited until training camp or right before to announce contract extensions.  Doesn't matter to me when they get it done as long as they do it.

Bengals have a pretty good track record of re-signing our bets players.

Sounds kind of funny to hear the exact same people claim that the Bengals are the only team that doesn't keep all their own good players and then complain about the Bengals not signing all of the good players that other teams have let become free agents.

[WeezyBengal]

(06-09-2021, 11:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals have almost always waited until training camp or right before to announce contract extensions.  Doesn't matter to me when they get it done as long as they do it.

Bengals have a pretty good track record of re-signing our bets players.

Sounds kind of funny to hear the exact same people claim that the Bengals are the only team that doesn't keep all their own good players and then complain about the Bengals not signing all of the good players that other teams have let become free agents.

Over the past 3-5 years the Bengals have not been good about re-signing their good players. Whit, Zeitler, Lawson, WJ3, Dennard. 

They've locked up Boyd and Mixon over the past couple seasons. That's it. More of their good players have left than have re-signed.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-08-2021, 08:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hubbard is a complete football player.  He's worth good money.  Just because he had a low sack season, does not mean that he can't rush the passer.  If you remember our defense last season, pretty much nobody was getting to the passer.  

I totally agree on making Jesse Bates a top 5 paid Safety in the NFL, first and foremost.  Then, give Hubbard a respectable deal that he can rest easy on.

For sure, Hubbard was also injured last year and still was the best run stopping edge player in the NFL according to many.

He will up his sack totals this year is what I am predicting and I even having him leading us in sacks, 10+ right there with Trey.

Now would be the time to sign him before the season but yeah, after paying Bates the big bucks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-09-2021, 10:12 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Wow. If only the coaches knew his sack ratio and played him more. Guess he'd be all pro. 

What are you even talking about? He had 14.5 sacks in his first 2 years in limited snaps.

That completely slaps around your low sack career claim. He had a poor year getting sacks last season.

Don't lump his entire career into just last season where no one was getting to the QB with rotational pieces at DT all year.

[Big_Ern]

(06-09-2021, 10:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no, you still don't get it.

Last year it was hard for even the best pass rushers in the league, like Carl Lawson, to get a lot of sacks with the Bengals because we had scrubs at DT and CB.  Hubbard did not get a lot of sacks because the opposing QB could usually step up in the pocket to avoid the rush or else dump the ball off to a wide open receiver.

See, doesn't that make more sense than your theory that Hubbard somehow, for no reason at all, just forgot how to rush the passer before last season

You said he didn't play a lot of snaps and he had a high ratio. And his totals weren't high because he didn't play enough. Now you're changing your theory as to why he didn't have a lot of sacks. Think Myles Garrett and TJ watt need all these other pieces to get pressure?  Think Myles outs up 2.5 sacks in 13 games with you and me playing corner? 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-09-2021, 12:52 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: You said he didn't play a lot of snaps and he had a high ratio. And his totals weren't high because he didn't play enough. Now you're changing your theory as to why he didn't have a lot of sacks. Think Myles Garrett and TJ watt need all these other pieces to get pressure?  Think Myles outs up 2.5 sacks in 13 games with you and me playing corner? 

lawl, comparing the #1 overall pick a consensus best DE in the league, along with a guy who plays in a system perfectly-suited to his strengths (and he's a Watt), to someone picked in the 3rd round and while not as good as them, is solid as F.

It seems like you hate OSU (or Hubbard specifically) or you think that a borderline generational player in Garrett, can be had at any time.

Delusions.

[Big_Ern]

(06-09-2021, 12:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What are you even talking about? He had 14.5 sacks in his first 2 years in limited snaps.

That completely slaps around your low sack career claim. He had a poor year getting sacks last season.

Don't lump his entire career into just last season where no one was getting to the QB with rotational pieces at DT all year.

great, he averages 5.5 a year.  He is a good player.  Wouldn't pay him more than 3-6 a year.